39 Comments on “Pornography Laws”
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kwikbali says:
September 16th, 2008 at 1:16 pmthis bill actually going to be passed? Are they serious? way to go Indonesia, The judicial system is not suppose to police ‘qeustionable’ moral behaviour. We have religion to police moral!.
This bill will further disintegrate the nation.
this bill suppose to be the diluted version of the original RUU-APP. could someone please enlighten me on the “dilution”? and how this will affect culture and tradition of people such as Papuan, Balinese, etc.
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rima says:
September 16th, 2008 at 2:47 pmYes, this is another MAJOR ACHIEVEMENT of our government that is a ‘clear indication’ of the ‘improvement’ of Indonesia in general.
Way to go, huh?
Makes me sick and consider why I still hold on to the green passport.
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Sylvester says:
September 16th, 2008 at 4:34 pmThis main problem is the definition of pornography.
Anyway, if this bill is passed, I support Bali and Papua independence. Being controlled by Islamic Javanese won’t bring any good. -
Purba Negoro says:
September 16th, 2008 at 11:56 pmIt is treasonous betrayal of Pancasila by the Islamics.
Did we not warn the West democracy was not possible in Indonesia?Perhaps now they see the peerless wisdom of Nasution’s Dwifungsi parliamentary military bloc?
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obaka08 says:
September 17th, 2008 at 12:31 amtwo are entirely opposed and have walked out of the deliberation sessions on the bill in protest, they being:
* PDI Perjuangan (PDI-P)
No wonder it’s max moein’s party after all…..
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Rob says:
September 17th, 2008 at 12:38 amPatung…
Where did the draft come from?
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Enigmatic says:
September 17th, 2008 at 12:42 amWell PN we voted these cows into parliament so I guess it’s business as usual.
Western Democracy CAN work in Indonesia, but only some parts of it because of the lack of political maturity among Indonesians in general.
But let’s face it. This Bill is just a distraction from the many real problems of Indonesia.
Think Corruption. Lapindo victims and perpetrators. Minority rights. Citizenship rights. AND Religious Freedom. Fresh from the Constitution.
And I couldn’t bother reading the Bill anyway because of its sheer stupidity. At least PDI-P was right.
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September 17th, 2008 at 12:53 amThis bill is merely a distraction from the real problems of Indonesia.
Poverty. Corruption. Consitutional Rights. Lapindo injustice. And now, inflation and cost of living. And food safety.
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Andy says:
September 17th, 2008 at 3:25 amAgree with Purba but don’t think Pancasila is foremost in the minds of Islamics. Nationalists are common in Indonesia but love of their religion comes in at number 1. The nationalist hat only comes on when they meet bules / chinese etc but amongst themselves they would take Allah over country anyday. You only have to see how quickly Islam spread across the country in the first place to see how easily people have been brainwashed. And the way they fawned over Abu Bakar Bashir and believed it was a western plot to arrest him. These people don’t have the stomach to fight terrorism. They also fail to see how it is destroying their country.
Enigmatic also makes a very good point. Populist moralising is a ploy used by failed politicians to detract attention away from their failings. And a walk around Jakarta for a day can highlight many of them.
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indahs says:
September 17th, 2008 at 3:48 amI agree with Sylvester. The definition of pornography in this bill is still too broad. In fact, it is dangerous & could be misued. I agree that pornography should be regulated, however, regulation that is mainly put on prohibition could be misleading and misused, especially with such definition that can be applied to any condition & situation by any media.
Some reliefs in Borobudur temple, for instance, are showing half naked women and men that could arose any dirty minds, pls see this website for refference (impressive photo collection by Gabisa Motonia
) http://www.flickr.com/photos/gabisa_motonia/sets/72157594306897978/
Does it mean the temple should be banished due to its sexual provocative reliefs then?
This is only one sample from Java Island, and how about Bali & Papua with their unique arts & culture? Bali and Papua are the only areas that popular nowadays to foreign tourists (Papua with its Raja Ampat could be the next leading underwater tourism in the world).This bill has to be reviewed before publishing. Seriously.
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Yalun says:
September 17th, 2008 at 5:32 amI have published several negative impacts of this law. Thanks to Rima for the translation.
The link is yalun.wordpressFeel free to comment
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PrimaryDrive says:
September 17th, 2008 at 6:15 amYou guys have now 5 weeks to destroy your porns at home, in your harddisks, and your iphones; or else risk 4 years jail in Cipinang. The law applies to bules as well
unless you have immunity.(And I really want to know what’s in the harddisks of our parlementarians; this is supposedly not too hard to hack in)
This is also bye bye to Inul. She will risk 10 years jail.
Strangely porn producers and distributors can get away with just 1 year.
Article 21 is worrying, as it gives the political permission to citizens to actively participate in prevention of porns … Some may interpret this rather extremely.
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Rama treiz. says:
September 17th, 2008 at 6:32 amOut of curiosity will holding hands and innocent gestures of love like that get you sent to jail? Also is there a way people can stop this bill from passing?
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September 17th, 2008 at 6:33 amI am deeply concerned with the unity of Indonesia right now. This will further strained the already tense ethnic and religious relationship in Indonesia. I hope im wrong but i can imagine the different provinces and islands screaming for special autonomus region, or to the extreme independence.
I agree with PN, Indonesia is not ready for democracy just yet. when most of its citizens are still lack the education coupled with a low level of living standard, how could we expect them to pick the ‘right’ choice.
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Mr John says:
September 17th, 2008 at 8:18 amI was actually a little surprised, this bill does have some redeeming features. As far as I am aware, child pornography is not a crime in Indonesia. This bill sets out pretty clear punishments for anyone involved in the sexual exploitation of anyone under the age of 18. I certainly don’t expect them to be enforced properly by the police, but even the threat of being hauled in to the police office and being forced to pay a huge bribe will hopefully deter some lowlifes.
That said, the bill is disturbingly vague in a number of key areas… That section on the responsibilities of the general populace in enforcing the bill could easily be used by FPI and their ilk in justifying their violent rampages.
How did this suddenly come back to life after being shelved for so long? Here’s to hoping it disappears again… This time permanently.
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janma says:
September 17th, 2008 at 9:28 amArticle 21 is a problem for sure…
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djoko says:
September 17th, 2008 at 12:08 pmArticle 21 is actually the main problem of the bill. Does give rise to the possibility of FPI-like ‘citizens arrests’ or perhaps, more accurately, ‘attacks’. Then again 22 (1) sets out what society’s ‘role’ in preventing pornography is, though once again I think the third point there is a little vague. But once again this has a stopper on it in the form of 22 (2) which says that any action taken by society must be responsible and within the law (so, technically speaking, smashing things up on an FPI scale, according to the law itself, is still not on).
For those asking about (and getting themselves worked up over) what it means for cultural things like in Bali, Papua, Javanese kebaya or the reliefs in Borobudur, read the draft bill, article 14. As long as it has artistic or cultural value its fine. Its right there. Might help if you read past article one (which it appears at least some people are not doing).
As broad as the law is, I would be very surprised if there ends up being a mass waves of people being arrested by the authorities for wearing tight clothes or showing affection in public. The fact that some are hyperventilating about that speaks more about some people’s paranoia than anything else. Once again the main concern is not so much the state itself in this regard but rather ‘civil society’ (or perhaps rather ‘uncivil society’ as its been said once) in some areas jumping on people for this, and to be honest they’ve been doing it with or without the law in place anyway.
Two things I’d note about the law: 1. To be perfectly honest if you only read one or two of the (most interesting) articles in the law, it does look god awful and dangerous. However if you read the thing in totality, at least technically speaking, there are enough checks on it such that it really is, as the PKS guy said, focused more on actually pornography itself rather than the whole array of cultural practices, everyday clothing and behaviour (what was previously being called ‘pornoaksi’) which some think it is. The main problem of course will come in its enforcement (in terms of police) and in its execution (in terms of judges).
2.There is one thing which no one else has mentioned, but because its something I normally like to keep an eye on, I will. Without a doubt part of the reason it is being rushed through is because the PKS in particular needs a big political splash to shore up its core supporter base for the election next year. The line about it being a ‘ramadhan gift’ to Muslims is only half true in the sense its more accurately a ‘ramadhan gift’ to PKS supporters. The party has been making a lot of overtures about opening itself up to non-Muslims and having a more open political platform, and I dare say that they’re concerned that it might alienate their core support base. Bringing in something largely unimportant (as people have said, Indonesia’s got bigger problems on its hands than pornography), but with high symbolic religious value is a good way of doing that. Much like the syariah bylaws brought in by some regents and mayors on the local level (wondering why you haven’t heard much about those recently? largely because most are inactive, and new ones aren’t being brought in – the wave of them a few years ago was tied more to election campaigns than any real conviction to ‘talibanize’ Indonesia or whatever), this is more of a politically motivated bill in the lead up to an election campaign.
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Rambutan says:
September 17th, 2008 at 2:37 pmDjoko, you’re the lone voice of reason. Thanks! Substantial changes have been made to the last draft. There is no pornoaksi anymore and the focus is the production and distribution of pornographic material.
Djoko, I believe this is also SBY’s gift to PKS. He wants to maintain PKS support for the 2009 elections and letting them get the Porn Bill is just the way to do it.
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September 17th, 2008 at 3:36 pmThanks for clarification, Djoko! I was annoyed by first reading the term of pornography as described in the beginning. I will go through the bill as I have more time.
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bukakelambu says:
September 17th, 2008 at 5:16 pmI wonder what’d PDI-P’s political motive for rejecting the RUU Pornography? Nevertheless, they’ve won my vote I guess..
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September 17th, 2008 at 5:33 pmWord on the street is that PDI-P is no longer rejecting the bill but has struck a deal with the PKS to support it with a view to considering alliances through the 2009 election process
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September 17th, 2008 at 5:42 pmThe law is scary for its vagueness and perhaps not so scary on its intent. However, the vagueness is a problem on a number of levels. Perhaps most problematic is going to be interpretation.
There are exception provisions strewn throughout the bill. These too are vague. The elucidations or explanations are not that helpful in indicating how the provisions might or should or must be interpreted.
Article 22 does in fact modify Article 21 and would seem to limit how the community might prevent pornography. It also states that citizens will have to be responsible for their actions and that these actions will be judged under prevailing laws. Nevertheless, that applies only to (a) and (b) of Article 21(1). Points (c) and (d) are considered to be unproblematic although the elucidations do not indicate what socialization and guidance might entail.
There are other problematic articles as indicated by others…no need to rehash those points again.
The issue really is going to come down to enforcement. How serious is the government in not only passing this law and ensuring its subsequent enforcement? Time will tell on this one. However, my guess would be that even if the government was not serious about enforcement it is likely that community groups so inclined could force the government’s hand through Articles 21 and 22.
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September 18th, 2008 at 12:28 amArticle 22 is in no way restricting 21. It just appears to be so. It lists down what things people can do to implement 21:
Peran serta masyarakat sebagaimana dimaksud dalam Pasal 21
dapat
dilakukan dengan cara: …
But it “forgets” to say that 22 is the only possible implementation.
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September 18th, 2008 at 3:02 amAndy- you make excellent intelligent positive comments this time.
A very pleasant change, and most refreshing.
Your comment about popularism hit the nail first time.
We also see this in the West with George Bush cuddling up to Christian Coalition and Howard to Church Groups and Blair to Anglican Church and heen Catholic Church group. -
janma says:
September 18th, 2008 at 9:04 amwonder what’d PDI-P’s political motive for rejecting the RUU Pornography? Nevertheless, they’ve won my vote I guess..
PDI has a huge support base in Bali, where the bill is not supported.
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September 18th, 2008 at 12:25 pmJanma- the issue is Realpolitik.
PDI-P is chasing the demographic that see Islamic vales as the virtuous polar opposite of current secular politics.
This numerically enormous demographic of such Kampung people are children’s minds in adult bodies- their comprehension of things, world views, perspectives etc are totally different to us [exclusive] as we’ve had the benefit of good secular education and travel.
This is not superiority issue or condescension as the West commonly errantly claims- it is merely acceptance of unfortunate realities- the great unwashed are also the great unread and the great unthinking.Churchill’s humourous comment, “the best argument against democracy is a 5 minute conversation with the average voter” is superbly appropriate for Indonesia.
The Rakyat are children- especially those of Java- they should not ever be left to their own devices without adult (us) supervision. they are naive, small minded and ignorant- they MUST be ruled with an iron hand otherwise they’ll get themselves into an awful self-destructive mess- as we see today.
Although Bali is strategic and an important demographoc- strategically it is better move for PDI-P to attract this kampungan demographic from Java and Sumatera- very simply more votes= Real politik. So Bali is then an acceptable loss.
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September 18th, 2008 at 4:16 pmPrimary Drive…
Matter of interpretation on Article 22. It would seem to restrict what role the community can play in “preventing” pornography from entering the community and removing it once it is found.
The bill is pretty clear that Article 21 is not a stand alone article. The vagueness relates to (c) and (d) in Article 22 and how the issues of socialization and guidance are to be defined.
Furthermore, it would seem that any actions taken by the community require that they comply with prevailing laws and those taking any actions are responsible for those actions.
In this sense then the real issue is whether or not the government is serious about not only the implementation of the provisions but their enforcement as well.
PN…
Not bad translation work!
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September 18th, 2008 at 4:17 pmNot bad translation work was a compliment by the way!
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September 18th, 2008 at 4:36 pmWe also see this in the West with George Bush cuddling up to Christian Coalition and Howard to Church Groups and Blair to Anglican Church and heen Catholic Church group.
Worked for a small percentage of voters. The rest rode on the wave of good economic times which we had from 1992 – 2007. Howard has gone and the Americans voted for a democratic congress. The Presidential election will be very interesting indeed.
But noone can say any politician in the west has been elected on a religious platform. Law and order and economy rules the roost all the time.
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Achmad Sudarsono says:
September 18th, 2008 at 4:42 pmYes, thank you, Mr. Purbo Negoros !
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