826 Comments on “Dutch War Crimes”
Pages: « 1 … 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 [25] 26 27 28 »
-
madrotter says:
May 13th, 2012 at 8:45 pmSo, Riki, what would your comment be with this photo?
-
Riki Purnomoz says:
May 13th, 2012 at 9:15 pmEhmm,,
We must kill the cattle to get it flesh, we must burn the forest to built a plantation. As simple as that. Never let your land to serve as the lungs of the world. -
madrotter says:
May 14th, 2012 at 12:14 amGreat answer! You’ve won a match. A used match but I’m sure it’ll come in handy. You can pick it up in Saritem, Bandung, just ask for Pak Didi…
-
May 14th, 2012 at 4:50 pmToday is May 14th. I capitulate, I am not able to argue with you more than 4 days.
-
madrotter says:
May 14th, 2012 at 10:00 pmdeng! And we were just getting to know each other!
I was going to ask you about Kulong Progo, where a company owned by the Yogya Royals together with an Australian mining company are trying to evict some 50.000 people from their land, land which they have toiled on for generations creating a paradise on ground, sand actually that has a high metal content….
http://325.nostate.net/?tag=kulon-progo
I was going to ask you about all the destruction going on here in West-Java:
http://www.insideindonesia.org/edition-98-oct-dec-2009/when-money-rules-over-voice-18101242
(And this guy is running for governor of West-Java now, this could get very, very bad, I for one am holding my breath)
-
May 15th, 2012 at 1:42 amI am no environmentalist. Evicting people is acceptable to me, as long as the company is profitable. Environment destruction is a price we must pay to develop something.
-
madrotter says:
May 15th, 2012 at 4:52 amSpoken like a true EHM!
For that answer you get 1 (one) chopstick, it’s used and broken but like the used match it will come in handy one day… Told you where you can collect it….
Your answer does reflect the attitude from your so-called leaders though….
-
Arie Brand says:
May 15th, 2012 at 7:57 am14th May 1940
For the armchair heroes here:
From Wikipedia:
At the outbreak of Second World War in 1939, the Netherlands declared itself neutral once again as it had done during World War I. Even so, on May 10, 1940, Germany invaded the Netherlands.
One of the purposes of the German invasion of the Netherlands was to draw away attention from operations in the Ardennes and to lure British and French forces deeper into Belgium as well as to pre-empt a possible British invasion in North Holland. Also, the Luftwaffe had insisted on seizing Dutch territory for they were in need of airfields near the North Sea coast.
The German forces faced little resistance at first, but their advance was eventually slowed by the Dutch Army. At the Afsluitdijk, the Grebbeberg, Rotterdam and Dordrecht the Dutch Army offered strong resistance. A German airborne landing at the Hague, intended to capture the Dutch royal family and the government, turned into a disaster for the Germans, and about 1,500 of the paratroopers and airlanding troops that had not been killed were captured and shipped to Britain. Additionally about 280 Ju 52 transports were destroyed on the airfields of Ypenburg, Valkenburg and Ockenburg or shot down, with the consequence that the German airborne forces were not available for the planned invasion of Britain. In all, the invasion of the Netherlands cost the Germans some 520 aeroplanes, the highest losses of the war in such a short period. Queen Wilhelmina, her family and the government evacuated to Britain, but during the Battle of Britain her daughter Princess Juliana and her children proceeded to Ottawa, Canada.
On May 14, the Germans — surprised by the Dutch resistance — demanded the surrender of the city of Rotterdam, threatening to bomb the city. A surrender was agreed upon with Dutch and German forces, with the Dutch intention of protecting its own civilians. However, the city was bombed, with 950 civilians killed and the town centre devastated.
After this bombardment, the German military command threatened to bomb the city of Utrecht as well if the Netherlands did not surrender. The Dutch army, under command of General Winkelman, laid down arms at 19:00 on 14 May, and formally capitulated on May 15, with the exception of the forces in Zeeland. They resisted for a few more days, together with some French troops, until the bombardment of Middelburg on May 17, which forced the Zeeland forces to surrender as well.
[edit]Riki doesn’t have to assure us that HIS heroes would have had no qualms about sacrificing their own civilians. Why – they have done so without any enemy to be seen.
-
berlian biru says:
May 15th, 2012 at 9:13 amverifiable facts to justify these weird notions
What “weird notions”?
The Australians captured Indonesian territory from the Japanese and subsequently handed that territory back to Dutch imperial forces.
Those are facts (unlike your mythological claim that Australian troops handed over captured Japanese weapons to locals, if it happened it happened on a tiny scale and not for ideological reasons).
The locals hated the Japanese, and were no doubt glad to see the back of them, but they weren’t liberated any more than Poles and Balts were “liberated” by the Red Army.
-
berlian biru says:
May 15th, 2012 at 9:17 amOn May 14, the Germans — surprised by the Dutch resistance — demanded the surrender of the city of Rotterdam, threatening to bomb the city. A surrender was agreed upon with Dutch and German forces, with the Dutch intention of protecting its own civilians. However, the city was bombed, with 950 civilians killed and the town centre devastated.
Simply repeating stuff doesn’t change facts Arie, the Dutch capitulated in a way that many other nations did not.
None of us know how we would react in similar circumstances; maybe we would go the way of the Dutch and surrender after one air raid in order to preserve our comfortable bourgeois existence, maybe we’d be like the Poles and fight like lions and damn the consequences.
I don’t know, but if I chose the Dutch option I certainly wouldn’t feel particularly proud of it.
-
May 15th, 2012 at 10:06 amNone of us know how we would react in similar circumstances; maybe we would go the way of the Dutch and surrender after one air raid in order to preserve our comfortable bourgeois existence, maybe we’d be like the Poles and fight like lions and damn the consequences.
I am glad they were mindful of my budding existence – and that of a few others. I leave the Poles to you.
-
Oigal says:
May 15th, 2012 at 11:45 amWell actually beyond weird but another self evident fact I gather.
The Australians captured Indonesian territory from the Japanese and subsequently handed that territory back to Dutch imperial forces.
Australians? One should perhaps give at least a nod to the other allied forces involved and of course by the logic above, those damnable Indians in Surabaya were even more determined as policy to hand the country back the Dutch. Nonsense of course, but hey it’s a self evident fact if we ignore all other facts.
To try and tie in what was obviously an immediate measure directly after the surrender of the Japanese as on going policy is simply disingenuous. Who do we really think Kalimantan for instance was to handed over to at that time? The largest Dayak Tribe (although in hindsight???)? Or did we expect the allied soldiers to sit around for another 2 years whilst the various Republican factions sorted themselves out..seriously?
The inference that Australia (or India or the allied forces) liberated Indonesia simply to hand back to the Dutch ignores the historical reality that India, the US and Australia were among the very first nations to recognize Indonesian independence.
Additionally Australian public sentiment was well behind the Indonesians with bans on shipments to the dutch forces starting in Sept 1945.
Oh and for the Mythical handover of weapons. Mmmm, perhaps but I tend to believe the vets both Indonesian and Australian that gather here every year for the service. I am sure they would be happy to discuss the myth further, let me know if you need the details of dates and stuff.
-
May 15th, 2012 at 12:33 pmRupert Lockwood says in his book Black Armada (Sydney 1975):
Subject in some manner to black bans in Australia were 36 Dutch merchant ships, passenger-liners and troopships, two tankers and 35 other oil industry craft, 450 power and dumb barges, lighters and surf-landing craft – essential to alding troops and stevedoringin shallow Indies waters and aircraft and a vast land transport fleet. Nine corvettes, two submarines(one stayed for good, to rust on a Fremantle breakwater) and seven submarine-chasers of the Royal Netherlands Navy, two British troopships under Admiralty orders and three Royal Australian Navy vessels were also listed as black. In the later crisis over Holland’s attempt to retain West Irian, the boycott was revived to embrace at Fremantle the aircraft-carrier Karel Doorman and her destroyer escorts. The identifiable total of ships of war and war supply and medium and smaller craft in the black armada reached 559.
The Netherlands Sea Transport Office in Australia conceded that 1,000 trucks were still held in Australia by boycott at March 1946. Netherlands Indies Government executives, their archives and reoccupation guilders.
Crikey.
Menzies, then leader of the conservative opposition, complained in 1947 in the Australian parliament “Australia has been virtually at war with the Dutch for two years, except for the shooting”.
-
Oigal says:
May 15th, 2012 at 1:03 pmJeez Ari..
That cannot be right!! After all, everyone knows that the only reason the Australians (and Indians) were in Indonesia was to…..
The Australians captured Indonesian territory from the Japanese and subsequently handed that territory back to Dutch imperial forces.
and those are self evident facts with no need to qualify or anything..
-
berlian biru says:
May 15th, 2012 at 2:42 pmThe Australians handed the territory over to the Dutch, end of story. They did not “liberate” Indonesian territory, the Indonesians did that by themselves over the coming years.
-
Oigal says:
May 15th, 2012 at 2:49 pmSigh, yes BB..A self evident fact.
-
berlian biru says:
May 15th, 2012 at 2:57 pmSelf evident chum, except to people who have difficulty comprehending plain English as you have frequently proven yourself to be.
-
May 15th, 2012 at 3:02 pmend of story … and he slammed his glass on the counter …
-
Oigal says:
May 15th, 2012 at 3:05 pmAnd just about every other poster here who can deals in facts instead of subjective opinion. However, I will be sure to let the Vet’s know that there was no liberation from the Japanese so they better swap their old uniforms for a “I’ve been to Bali too” T’shirt coz we aint fool’in BB
.As I said before, I would love to get some historically accurate data about Indonesian involvement in the Landings in Kalimantan and the immediate aftermath. Unfortunately whatever else they may be the Dayaks were not great note takers from what I can find. Now if you have something that is not the normal axe grind subjective opinion do let me know, otherwise…
-
May 15th, 2012 at 7:11 pmAustralaiaiaians liberated Indonesia?,
The myth equals only to the existence of Republic Australia. Enjoy the warm of a foreign Queen’s crotch.
oh, wait, liberate yourself, its a disgrace to be a colony. -
Oigal says:
May 15th, 2012 at 7:55 pmThanks for your input on the history of Indonesia, you do your nation proud Riki. Still working with that one chopstick I see. Actually that was a bit mean of MR, good chance you will starve to death….although ..if a tree falls in forest…
-
madrotter says:
May 15th, 2012 at 8:31 pmi’m willing to throw in that second chopstick, it’s made out of hardwood, they were bob hassan’s chopstick….
-
madrotter says:
May 15th, 2012 at 8:32 pmSo I’m not sure where they’ve been….
-
May 15th, 2012 at 10:03 pmScotchmen are smarter than us.
( Anonymous Australian ) -
Oigal says:
May 16th, 2012 at 12:21 amLaugh..you plonker.. I think you mean Scotsman. You have been told before about trying humour in language your are not passably fluent in.
If he was anonymous how do you he was Australian
Oh and if the us means you, then a pile of rocks passes the bill
-
May 16th, 2012 at 6:58 amIts a quote. Blame him not me.
-
Oigal says:
May 16th, 2012 at 9:21 amOk, Riki.. Used to that response, now with the Wet smile and the Screen Saver face to complete the PICTURE. Thanks
. -
berlian biru says:
May 16th, 2012 at 9:53 amaxe grind subjective opinion
No, my dear chap, subjective, spittle flecked rants full of abuse and hot air are your specialties, I deal with historic realities.
The historic fact is that Australian and allied troops who captured Kalimantan certainly drove the Japanese out but they did not “liberate” the island, do you see the difference yet?
It’s really a very simple, rather basic, point involving the use of the English language*, your difficulty in comprehending such a minor piece of semantics doesn’t surprise me but continually posting up your ignorance for the world to read seems rather odd.
(*Just for the record Riki’s use of the term “Scotchmen” whilst not generally used today is nonetheless grammatically correct as it is in the plural, your use of “Scotsman” (sing.) is grammatically incorrect in the context of his sentence, you might want to apologise.)
-
Oigal says:
May 16th, 2012 at 10:59 amThanks for sharing BB
. I think over the past few weeks your knowledge of local history and literature has been amply demonstrated and doesn’t really need much more comment from anyone. Oh indeed, Sorry Riki, Scotsmen not Scotsman and it should be “your are” not your.
-
berlian biru says:
May 16th, 2012 at 1:03 pmMy knowledge of local literature, such as it is, is certainly wanting I’ll grant you that but to be honest sadly I don’t think I’m missing much.
My knowledge of history I’ll stand against yours any day of the week and win hands down.
Pages: « 1 … 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 [25] 26 27 28 »
Your view on “Dutch War Crimes” :
Copyright Indonesia Matters 2006-13
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Contact