Dutch War Crimes

Sep 9th, 2008, in Opinion, by Lairedion

View the original article here.

546 Comments on “Dutch War Crimes”

Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 [18] 19 »

indo4life Says:
November 19th, 2009 at 3:48 am
i don’t get it why many western most of the time are talking bad about indonesia, coz they choose to live the life like an expat.

but on topic about the warcrimes, what you think about indo’s dutch indonesians who fought in indonesia and didn’t get paided all those years from the dutch government?
Oigal Says:
November 19th, 2009 at 6:12 pm
what you think about indo’s dutch indonesians who fought in indonesia and didn’t get paided all those years from the dutch government

Perhaps then Indonesias should expect/demand better from their own countrymen then?
andy Says:
November 20th, 2009 at 1:59 am
indo4life, many people criticise many countries including the ones they migrated to and if you are grown up and not ultra sensitive you will except that. In the case of Indonesia can you understand maybe the expats would only like to see Indonesia improve and become a better country? That won’t happen without positive criticism. Instead of crying like a baby and going in your shell, suck it up and roll up your sleeves. You will do your country more favours in the long run with more tourism, investment and positive comments from the general international community.
FlyBye Says:
December 13th, 2009 at 12:49 pm
In response to: purba negoro, September 16th, 2008 at 3:48 pm Jury still out.

http://www.indonesiamatters.com/2452/dutch-war-crimes/cp-2/#comment-115606

“The Dutch did nothing but steal, pillage and extract- not even building one university, one hospital or even an agricultural bank for the natives.”

In your anger I think you have lost track of some of the truth Purba Negoro. How about The Bandung Institute of Technology? It was established by the Dutch as the “Technische Hoogeschool te Bandung” in 1920. In a 1991 study, the top 200 high school students in the national entrance examination indicated ITB as their first choice.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandung_Institute_of_Technology

Or the University of Indonesia? Established by the Dutch and with its roots going back to the establishment in 1848 of the school for Javanese Doctors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Indonesia

Wilhelmus Zakaria Johannes was the first Indonesian medical doctor who learned radiology in Holland. The Indonesian government honored WZ Johannes as a National Hero of Indonesia.

http://www.spock.com/Wilhelmus-Zakaria-Johannes

In 1901 the Dutch adopted what they called the Ethical Policy, under which the colonial government had a duty to further the welfare of the Indonesian people in health and education. Although a failed policy, it set in motion the first steps toward the drive for independence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_East_Indies

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_Ethical_Policy

I think that injustices have been committed, and I think that an official apology from the Dutch government should be forthcoming. Furthermore, I think that reparations are appropriate.

I also think that people should not forget the socio-historical perspective. Empires have always been build on conquest and exploitation of foreign lands all through history. Foreign invaders in search of wealth took often control of countries (or in this case an area, since Indonesia as a country did not exist at the time) that did not have the technological capabilities to defend themselves or even have the know-how on how to exploit their resources. Eventually the people learned from the invaders and threw them out, often through violent and bloody struggles, only to subjugate others in turn. Atrocities have been, and are still being committed all over the world in the pursuit of that endeavor. And although I do not want to defend any trespasser, the focus should not be on shaming, blaming and hating responsible parties, but on how to to learn from it and on preventing it from happening again, wherever it may be. After all there is only one way out, and that is the way forward!

All I can hope for is that the subjugation of the less powerful will someday be a thing of the past. But as it is people will always seek more wealth, even to the detriment of others and to the world they live in. No matter on what continent or by what ethnicity…
devilkitty Says:
December 16th, 2009 at 8:19 pm
The worst war “crime” by the Dutch that i cant forgive is their devide et impera politic. Before the european came.. all race (chinese, non chinese, indian, arabian) live side by side, after the Dutch occupied Indo they promoted race discrimination and disintegration.
Oigal Says:
December 16th, 2009 at 8:22 pm
all race (chinese, non chinese, indian, arabian) live side by side, after the Dutch occupied Indo they promoted race discrimination and disintegration.

Back to the history books for you bad kitty…
devilkitty Says:
December 16th, 2009 at 8:25 pm
ah, i made mistake.. what i meant was before ALL European arrived and brought racism to Nusantara.
Oigal Says:
December 16th, 2009 at 8:31 pm
Laugh..yup The Javanese played in this wonderful utopia with no slaves, servants or bonded serfs.. NOT

Still its always someone elses fault.
devilkitty Says:
December 16th, 2009 at 8:35 pm
The Javanese were feudal, but they were racist toward Chinese. Javanese and Chinese had good relation back then.. the Chinese spread Chinese culture and Islam religion to Indonesia, thats why we have Wayang, Wali Songo, and so on.
devilkitty Says:
December 16th, 2009 at 8:36 pm
they were NOT racist toward Chinese.. *grrrrr.. i typed to fast)=*
andy Says:
December 17th, 2009 at 2:11 am
so devilkitty, if you and your people know this why can’t the javanese think for themselves and stop being racist towards every race they live side by side with now?
diego Says:
December 17th, 2009 at 2:21 am
andy,

what is your specialization btw?

When the issues is about the relationship between non-chinese and chinese-descendant indonesians, you chip in, and the non-chinese indonesians are the bad ones.

When it’s about timor leste, you also demonizing indonesians.
While you are at it, you brought up the issue of papuan, urging them to separate.

Now we’re talking about indonesian-dutch situation, you’re here. As usual, indonesians are bad.

What else, and oh I saw you in the female genital mutilation thread, with your silly question, which made want to say to you “mind your own fcking business”. devilkitty already said it was the decision of the hospital, maybe she was born with some special situation that requires that operation. nothing to do with islam, but you insist with the nagging question “is that necessary”.

I have no interest in debating with you at intelectual level, because it’s just a waste of time. I’ll keep tackling your feet until you get bored.

You sound like a fag btw (with the high-pitched voice, almost screaming all the time).
andy Says:
December 17th, 2009 at 3:36 am
I have no interest in debating with you at intelectual level, because it’s just a waste of time.

I don’t blame you, it’s a bit like Mr Bean tackling Mike Tyson isn’t it what with your inferior Indonesian primary school education. You’re just a joke and I have no doubt you would be gutless if you faced a bule in person. You are not a real man.

Btw spell intellectual for me again?
devilkitty Says:
December 17th, 2009 at 6:15 am
@Andy :
Looks like Dutch’ divide et impera for 360 years still leave marks in our people doesnt it ?
As for me im not racist toward Chinese and i dont treat my Chinese classmates different because of their race, i hope for all “Pribumi” to do the same… people should remember that the Chinese stepped their feet into Nusantara not to colonialize and force their beliefs (Budhism in 5th century, Islam in 16th century) to Javanese and other tribes in Nusantara, but their mission were to trade and build good relation with other Asian countries. At the same time they assimilated with local people along with their culture and religions. Unlike the British, Portuguesse, and Dutch with sole purpose for Gold, Glory & Gospel who came to Nusantara with cunning ways, weaponry, and manipulation to steal our resources, break the people’s unity with devide et impera (sadly we still use burgelijk wetboek as one of the source of private law), force Christianity, and enslaved the people with Tanam Paksa, thats why the Dutch, British,Portuguesse’re called Imperialist, Not the Chinese or Indian. Pribumi, Indian, Arabs, & Chinese were living together side by side until imperialists came for occupation.

@Diego : meh.. he/she doesnt sound bule to me, but obviously a muslim hater and probably.. racist ? just a feeling.

and i have the feeling that he’s a bule’s ass’ licker too… most disgusting cliche in some of our society.

“You sound like a fag btw (with the high-pitched voice, almost screaming all the time).”

hiahahahahahaHAHAHAHHahAHHHA xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
diego Says:
December 18th, 2009 at 1:53 am
@devilkitty

I also think that way about that fag. What an insecurity, hiding behing a “bule” false identity, repeatedly saying “my country” “in my country”, etc.
andy Says:
December 18th, 2009 at 2:13 am
I also think that way about that fag.

diego, just for all our sakes, if you are going to suggest i’m not who I am, tell us who you are…you are hiding behind a name different to your own to start with. Fag??What f*cking century are you living in? I will say as I have before that without the anonymity of the internet and the distance between us you are a coward plain and simple….You would never have the guts to face me personally and you are a disgrace to your people.

devilkitty, let’s not get off on the wrong foot ok….You are wrong about one thing which is Islam began in the Arabian peninsula and was forced upon those outside who have it as their main religion now. Iran is a classic example. Those who flee their tyrannical leaders often revert from Islam to another religion or no religion at all. Their indigenous religion Zoroatrianism was destroyed and only a small handful still practice and are executed if found out. So please stop this nonsense that everyone but bules lived peacefully side by side singing peace songs together. It is crap. I used Iran as an example as it is the closest to the Arab world. But the conquests continued from there until reaching your shores. There are many today who wish to impose a caliphate upon Asia (Philippines, Thailand, all of Indonesia etc). I wonder what all the Indonesians in Java centuries ago who practised Buddhism and Hinduism thought of Islam marching in and I also wonder what peaceful Muslims in Indonesia think of the creeping Arabian (sharia) practices being implemented across the country by the radicals. As for imperialism / colonialism, can you not see there were many advantages (education, infrastructure etc) that came from this small period in your history? The Dutch were not all bad for you regardless of what your history books may wish to teach. Look at your railways for example.
devilkitty Says:
December 18th, 2009 at 5:48 am
@Diego : yes, that obvious right.. i noticed it too.

@Andy : The conquest ? Look at the nearest with us, Indonesia, Islam came from India & China in peace and not by forced, Islam become our religion because the Indian & Chinese people lived together with our people, not by force or organized missionary programs. Abrahamic religions become major religions because theyre interwined to each other and the mother of Monoteism. You are so crazy to compare me Tanam Paksa, racism, & discrimination for 360 Years, by telling me “The Dutch were not all bad coz we gave you Railways and Buildings” it’s like making sandhouses for all of your children while at home you beat the crap out of your adopted kids but not your own. Your hate campaign is clear like Diego pointed at you..

If you want to learn about domination of Abrahamic religions to some nations, dont forget to study the reason why Islam existed in Arab Jahiliyah society, why Judaism existed in slavery society in Egypt, and why Christianity existed in immoral society in Jerusalem.
Achmad Sudarsono Says:
December 18th, 2009 at 10:03 am
Andy,

Great invention: paragraphs.
ET Says:
December 18th, 2009 at 10:21 am
The conquest ? Look at the nearest with us, Indonesia, Islam came from India & China in peace and not by forced, Islam become our religion because the Indian & Chinese people lived together with our people, not by force or organized missionary programs.

If islam was so peaceful then why was the Hindu Majapahit nobility together with their entire entourage and craftsmen forced by the Sultanate of Demak to leave Java for Bali in order to preserve their culture and religion?
devilkitty Says:
December 18th, 2009 at 11:50 am
@ET : Power struggles of the kingdoms in Nusantara had started even before Islam existed and incase you dont know, the war between Majapahit and Demak was started because of Majapahit decided to be a traitor by cooperating with Portuguese Imperialist, it had nothing to do with Religion. Islam, Hindhu, and Budhism werent brought by imperialist with conquest mission (Gold, Glory, Gospel) from Portugal, Great Britain, or Dutch, but by traders and asian kingdoms with mission of trading & building good relationships.
devilkitty Says:
December 18th, 2009 at 12:00 pm
“dutch” xp ughh.. i meant “nederland”.
ET Says:
December 18th, 2009 at 1:07 pm
@devilkitty

@ET : Power struggles of the kingdoms in Nusantara had started even before Islam existed and incase you dont know, the war between Majapahit and Demak was started because of Majapahit decided to be a traitor by cooperating with Portuguese Imperialist, it had nothing to do with Religion.

Is this what they teach you in your history lessons? Majapahit cooperating with Portuguese Imperialist. Maybe you should consult other sources too.

The last prince of the Srivijayan kingdom of Sumatra, after the loss to the Majapahit, converted to Islam in 1414, and founded the Sultanate of Malacca on the Straits of Malacca between Sumatra and the Malay Peninsula. As the Portuguese came to trade for spices, they began to ally with the Islamic powers, which did not help the Majapahit.
devilkitty Says:
December 18th, 2009 at 3:23 pm
@ET : The story’s not completed,.. Portuguese conquered Malaka, allied with Islam, then they doublecrossed Islam, and allied with Majapahit to fight Demak (Islam Kingdom which was led by Patih Unus), along with it they conquered Bintan (if im not mistaken). It’s called divide and conquer strategy (elementary school history lesson), this strategy was continued by portuguese’s rival that was the dutch, to all around kingdoms in Nusantara until they kingdoms’re all scattered and gone and after they’ve been eliminated, the dutch continued to devide natives versus indian, arab, chinese.

And the dutch were even worst establishing racist and discriminative occupation for over 3 centuries exploiting Indonesia resources and the people.
ET Says:
December 18th, 2009 at 6:06 pm
@ devilkitty

And the dutch were even worst establishing racist and discriminative occupation for over 3 centuries exploiting Indonesia resources and the people.

Sure, thanks to the help and support of your kaum ningrat, without which they could have never pulled it off. Mind you, Holland is a small and far away country with limited resources and demography, how could they have managed to occupy and exploit the vastness of Indonesian resources and people for three centuries unless they had massive support from locals who benefitted from the occupation.
Your posts seem to reflect once again this ‘we poor Indonesians exploited by the big bad bule’ syndrome, pointing fingers at everyone else but ignoring the beam in your own eye. Or is this the Indonesian method of nation-building?

As to your alleged alliance between Majapahit and the Portuguese I would appreciate to know your sources.
devilkitty Says:
December 18th, 2009 at 6:24 pm
well, some big bad bules were indeed terribly Bad and Racist toward other race a long time ago (and not just to us, but to indians, to black people, and so on) … read burgerlijk wetboek then youll see how racist they were, but that doesnt necessarily describe Today’s condition cos things’re changed, i dont hate bule.. infact i think pale skin is exotic

About the history of Portuguese occupation in Nusantara i remember it was tought at elementary school to junior highschool, of course i dont remember the books author.. (you could browse Gramedia bookstore if you really want to know about it so bad :p). But if you want to believe your own opinion rather than our history lesson we received at school then it’s up to you.
Burung Koel Says:
December 18th, 2009 at 6:47 pm
But if you want to believe your own opinion rather than our history lesson we received at school then it’s up to you.

So do you think the old PSPB curriculum was accurate? All that stuff about who was behind G30S, for example?
devilkitty Says:
December 18th, 2009 at 7:17 pm
@Burung : No, thats innacurate from ive read in “Membongkar Sejarah”, and based on a documentary on MetroTV that interviewed people who were witnessing what happened that time. But it’s ridiculious to say that the Dutch werent being all Racist and discriminative when occupying our land cos you know the truth the dutch was indeed separating citizen rights and law based on Race, “White, Inlaander/Natives, and Eastern (Indian, Arab, Chinese)”
Cukurungan Says:
December 19th, 2009 at 7:05 am
So do you think the old PSPB curriculum was accurate? All that stuff about who was behind G30S, for example?

Do not be so naive, everyone know that the history is always written buy the winner and we know exactly who behind G30S but at that time we need a brave leader to purge unwanted bunch of people (God denier) from our society. Pak Harto got what he wanted while we achieved what we wanted, it is win win solution and case is closed.
ET Says:
December 19th, 2009 at 10:37 am
@ devilkitty

About the history of Portuguese occupation in Nusantara i remember it was tought at elementary school to junior highschool, of course i dont remember the books author..

O, I see…

But if you want to believe your own opinion rather than our history lesson we received at school then it’s up to you.

My opinion? Unlike you I have no opinion about it. I’m just interested to know what happened, without any religious or nationalistic bias.

You see, devilkitty, we, bad and racist westerners, have tried to develop investigating minds that don’t like to be fooled by teachers with an agenda.
devilkitty Says:
December 19th, 2009 at 11:27 am
@ET : Then find biography about Sultan Chairun Janil from Malaka that isnt being taught at schools, who he was, how and why Portuguese army killed him. If you want to believe Portuguese, Dutch, British were loving Imperialists who came to indonesia with mission of Peace & Love because of your Race then its fully your right, if you want to join KKK thats also none of my business.

I dont hate or despise bule, Indonesian, other asian, or african just because of their sin made in the past.. but if you want me to naively believe Portuguese, Dutch, British, Japanese imperialists were fun loving people who paid a visit to our land to spread World Peace then sorry i wont follow what you want us to believe. Once again, Bule & Japanese were our past enemy but era has changed and what’s in the past remain in the past.. I dont despise Bule or Japanese as much as you despise Indonesia and the people.