Compulsory HIV Testing & Pancasila

Sep 2nd, 2009, in Asides, by

Compulsory HIV testing of foreigners and its relationship to Pancasila values and nationalism.


54 Comments on “Compulsory HIV Testing & Pancasila”

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  1. avatar Achmad Sudarsono says:
    November 1st, 2009 at 12:35 pm

    Seksi Ibu Farah Yth,

    It is not easy for us to start the relationship as i don’t like bule, and his arrogant attitude and his annoying complains about Indonesia.

    Can you expand on the comment above ? Many peoples say I am the anti Bule one, and sometimes I am need with the back ups.

    Is oke, Friends ?

  2. avatar Farah says:
    November 1st, 2009 at 1:55 pm

    Mr Achmad,

    Its ok…

    It was long time ago, when i met less Caucasian back in deep jungle, and have those bad stereotypes that my parent and grandparent told me since i was young. As that stereotype like they are smelly, and young bule only want sex, not marriage (mt parent freak out to know i am dating one), they are big but weak, cant stand heat, the blondes are stupid, red hair are emotional, brown like puppies, their jokes are dry and not funny at all, and so on. (please don’t get upset, this is what i know first about bule).

    As i work during my University in other city i met with lots of them while helping out friend with exchange students from Canada and United State, that come every 6 months (3-6 of them) and stay for 3 months (summer or end of year).

    Some of the stereotypes are gone, some are totally wrong, after i know them better… (my friend smell good, my blonde friend are not dumb, the brown are wicked, its just hair color anyway ! and they are strong>> i met one of the university football player… wow.. he is HUGE) …. they just human after all.

    As my ex, very first time he came to Indonesia at 2000, his complain include:
    The delayed flights, crazy bus driver, crazy motorcycle driver, not working ac at the bus, mosquito, the heat, the traffic, pathetic local guys who’s not giving seat to pregnant or senior citizen on bus, the squad potty, the traditional bathroom (wasting lots of water as he said) the “not allowed” things such drinking right from tap, young beggars on traffic light (why no body take care of them??), different university/education system and so on.

    That’s what annoy me about him, and i call him an arrogant person (a whining baby from united state). So, yes we start bad as both of us full of bad assumption about each other.

  3. avatar Achmad Sudarsono says:
    November 1st, 2009 at 3:32 pm

    Ibu Farah Yth.,

    I thank you. So do you think as patriotic Indonesian we should have program of pengusiran like Soekarno in 1958 (kick ‘em out!). I think maybe we should have mandatory on-the-spot AIDS test for all Bule. Even if they don’t have the AIDS it will teach them respect for our polices.

  4. avatar Rob says:
    November 1st, 2009 at 3:43 pm

    @ Achmad…

    Why on the spot? Why not make it mandatory that all “bules” submit a medical certificate with any visa application? And, for those fortunate few that can avail themselves of a Visa On Arrival, then they must supply a current medical certificate from a recognized / accredited medical practitioner in their country of origin.

    Mate, if you are going to do it, then you should do it right. And, not half-arsed like installing heat sensors or scanners at airports and then not having them turned on because there aren’t enough people trained on how to use them.

    As a matter of interest. What polices [sic] are you talking about?

    You are a pretty patriotic Indonesian for an expatriate shit-stirrer…when should we expect to see a CD / DVD of your greatest ukulele hits?

  5. avatar Achmad Sudarsono says:
    November 1st, 2009 at 3:51 pm

    Mr. Robs,

    I meant police. Not policies. I think some foreigner, like Mr. Oigals need to work on their respect for polisi and other “organs” of the state.

    Random AIDS testing on bule , say, pulling them over in the traffic, or even better at places like Bloks M or DragontheFlys, would impress upon them their true worth and status in the country. Like Farah’s grandparents and parents, most Indonesians are people who value morality, not the free-wheeling ways of the Barry McKenzie one from Down Unda.

    I thank you for your Ukulele suggestion. I will start making a compilation – perhaps first published here on IM some clippings from reviews in the New York Times and other places. Such reviews would show my struggles as an artist — some of my recordings, especially the avante guarde attempts to blend German industrial music with Keroncong, or Dangdut with 70s funk went over the heads.

    But the true artist is ever misunderstood.

  6. avatar Rob says:
    November 1st, 2009 at 3:57 pm

    @ Achmad…

    Okey dokey on the police.

    As a true artist, I am sure that you are often misunderstood.

  7. avatar aries says:
    November 1st, 2009 at 3:58 pm

    Achmad Sudarsono:

    Why do people suggest you are anti-bule?

    ARE you anti-west…..?

    Truthfully please, if you can.

    BTW, I think this topic is headed for some type of unseemly direction, can’t
    really understand why, perhaps I’m wrong!

  8. avatar Oigal says:
    November 1st, 2009 at 4:16 pm

    think maybe we should have mandatory on-the-spot AIDS test for all Bule

    Cool Idea..Sort of the like the countries that gave the most Aid, then their bules get the red carpet treatment in recognition their unselfish support with their taxpayer dollars?

    I love it..5 star hotels, hot babes..I do believe Soekarno had a pretty interesting “black-book” maybe the next generation is still on the game?

    I think some foreigner, like Mr. Oigals need to work on their respect for polisi and other “organs” of the state.

    Now thats just not true ASSMAD.. I nearly always refer to the police as a particular organ.

    I also support your plans for futher harrasment of the “Bule” as it keeps the none committed away and every outrage means extra bucks come new contract time (call it the idiot and nutter allowance if you will). Best of all ensures a long term income as they say “if it was perfect we wouldn’t be here”

    Kind of sad you refer to me as a foreigner tho. Why just the other day I joined the village to vote against letting more of those Javanese Expats in. You know the ones, expect special treatment, won’t join the local community activities, take jobs from local people, live in compounds of their own kind and refuse to mix.

  9. avatar Achmad Sudarsono says:
    November 1st, 2009 at 4:19 pm

    @ Pak Aries Yth.,

    I am a Pancasilais and Nasionalis.

    I am not anti West, but I think the White Man should pay for 350 years of colonization of my brothers and sisters. Also, why when he comes here all the girls like him when I got to the Aussie, they put me aside and ask me why I come in Imigrasi ? Why haven’t they heard of my Art, Poetry, and Music ?

    There can be only one answer: they still think in the colonial way.

  10. avatar Oigal says:
    November 1st, 2009 at 4:19 pm

    The delayed flights, crazy bus driver, crazy motorcycle driver, not working ac at the bus, mosquito, the heat, the traffic, pathetic local guys who’s not giving seat to pregnant or senior citizen on bus, the squad potty, the traditional bathroom (wasting lots of water as he said) the “not allowed” things such drinking right from tap, young beggars on traffic light (why no body take care of them??), different university/education system and so on.

    The new poster for Visit Indonesia 2010..

  11. avatar Burung Koel says:
    November 1st, 2009 at 6:36 pm

    or Dangdut with 70s funk went over the heads

    That explains the career nosedive of MC Hammer, then.

  12. avatar brian astaga says:
    November 1st, 2009 at 6:37 pm

    @achmad

    I thank you. So do you think as patriotic Indonesian we should have program of pengusiran like Soekarno in 1958 (kick ‘em out!). I think maybe we should have mandatory on-the-spot AIDS test for all Bule. Even if they don’t have the AIDS it will teach them respect for our polices.

    I ask you why? coming from Australia myself, we welcome all kinds especially indonesians ‘mostly on boats’

    can we talk about indonesian women and dating them please????

    @achmad
    For me, i dont respect people like you…..period

  13. avatar brian astaga says:
    November 1st, 2009 at 6:48 pm

    @assmad…

    Random AIDS testing on bule , say, pulling them over in the traffic, or even better at places like Bloks M or DragontheFlys, would impress upon them their true worth and status in the country.

    ASTAGA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    you are as silly as you look old man………

    there are so many things to be seyd about your comments….however, none of them really are talking about indonesian women ARE THEY ASSMAD????

    most of us very much respect your country assmad! people like you dont get respect..no matter which country you come from!

    Random AIDS testing on bule

    GET REAL!

    SO ANYBODY HAVE STORY ABOUT INDONESIAN WOMEN?

    ADE? PEET? ARIES? AND ESPECIALLY CARL???

  14. avatar Carl says:
    November 1st, 2009 at 10:42 pm

    Wow….! Whats happening!…cool it guys. OK.

    This has been such a light hearted forum..good to go back to once in a while, read some interesting (if not amusing) comments about Indo women, or personal experiences/romances in general. Now its entering an ugly territory, bigotry, racism, personal messages of hate, etc.

    Don’t know who’s the moderator/admin of this forum, but they shud, with respect, remove/delete couple of the above posts, if not outright blocking of posters, like Mr. Achmad Sudarsono.

  15. avatar Deta says:
    November 2nd, 2009 at 9:35 am

    @Carl
    Welcome to IM! he..he..

    Patung, please don’t delete anything. This is the place where the unrevealed revealed, he..he..

  16. avatar Oigal says:
    November 2nd, 2009 at 9:39 am

    Delete Assmad???…that will only leave Patrick, Ross and couple of the humourless ones to play with..No fun at all then

  17. avatar donny says:
    November 2nd, 2009 at 9:43 am

    Hello Achmad Sudarsono =D
    how are you today ? I wish you well =D

    just want to say that I am totally agree with your comment, especially :

    we should have program of pengusiran like Soekarno in 1958 (kick ‘em out!). I think maybe we should have mandatory on-the-spot AIDS test for all Bule. Even if they don’t have the AIDS it will teach them respect for our polices.

    so if a part of one races/religion is bad or have tendencies to judge other races/religion bad … let’s wipe them all out from the face of the earth … is that it ?
    very good comment, my friend … it truly shows who you really are deep within

    and … did you also complaining about Palestine ? about Israelis and Americans treat Palestinian? how they wanted palestinian cleared out (from the earth) ??

    deep down … I think you’re the same with them … always seeks bad things from others in order to attack them, instead of focusing in their much much better quality and holding hands together to make this world a better place

    how easy we judge other people based on skin color, based on hair color, based on races, religion, how they treat fellow human being, how the stigma of one races makes we look down on them … this happens ALSO to what we called “BULE” and that stupid judgement is precisely what you did above – no different with what you called “BULE”

    and how would you think if other countries kick indonesians from their countries, or subject them to unjust law like your suggestion above ? is it OK ??

    in conclusion – what different are you with the rest of us ? holier perhaps ? as you share the same basic thinking as the people you condemn

  18. avatar donny says:
    November 2nd, 2009 at 9:51 am

    Ahhh … hello Oigalll !!
    how are you ??

    love your comment

    Delete Assmad???…that will only leave Patrick, Ross and couple of the humourless ones to play with..No fun at all then

  19. avatar Achmad Sudarsono says:
    November 2nd, 2009 at 10:08 am

    Halo Pak Donnys,

    And if we do like you say, we would still be under the Belanda. Friend I am not The Racist and ever have a friend from all country, even from Nigeria.

    But Friends, I ask you:

    * Who does the colonization in Indonesia ?
    * Who takes Jupe (Julia Perez) away from us (the Bule).
    * Who made a financial crisis in 1997-98 (the Bule).

    Friend, my suggestion of AIDS tests comes from the Pancasila – the sila about kemanusiaan. AIDS test is not about racism – it’s about public health and higene. Also, by forcing the Bule one to submit to our polisi – he will learn the respects.

    You know it is true, Friends.

  20. avatar donny says:
    November 2nd, 2009 at 10:56 am

    Halo Pak Achmad

    nice to have discussion with you =D
    let’s continue

    And if we do like you say, we would still be under the Belanda

    sorry … I miss this one … what did I say, which will make Indonesian still under Dutch Colonization ?

    about your questions :
    1. who does the colonization in Indonesia ? well … at first Indonesian have sooo many small kingdoms, which fought against each other …. if colonization means taking other people’s territory by force /political means … so firstly it must be Sriwijaya Kingdom … then Madjapahit, (sorry if I mistype the name), later by Portuguese (with superior weapon system), Dutch, Japanese … and lastly by poverty ….
    so do all forces and kingdoms worldwide … especially when they have power and have nothing else to do …

    2. Who takes Jupe ? sorry I did not know Julia Perez … anyhow, countless Indonesians marry countless bule and other races and vice versa .. so I did not think this is a problem

    3. Who made financial crisis ?? hmmm … sorry if I got you wrong on this one, but from what I read … 1997 – 1998 crisis is mostly due to Indonesian government’s debt during Orde Baru and fall of asia pacific market … THERE may be BULE involved, but none I know

    about your suggestion, I think sila about kemanusiaan reads “Kemanusiaan yang adil dan beradab” (sorry again if I misstype something) or if I’m not mistaken, translated “Humanity, which is just and civilised”

    you covered the “JUST” part, but missed the “CIVILISED” parts … and I still think that subjecting certain races to “un-just” and “uncivilised” law is just too cruel

    that’s why I asked previously what do you think if other countries apply some kind of funny law against certain races or religion …

    say … after 9/11, US tighten security in all of their airport soo bad that anyone with muslim names / religion or slightly suspicious is checked in a point that they almost being stripped completely … including opening shoes, socks, pants … and body cavity search …
    ONE of my best friend happens to have Islamic name (he’s a muslim) … and he gets that kind of treatment simply because citizenship, names and small beard

    what happened to humanity and “without prejudice” US boasting about ?

    such funny, unjust and uncivilised law like this … is no different with AIDS test on foreigners like your suggestion … it’s like generalisation that all foreigners (bule) are dirty and have strong possibility of having AIDS and plan to start AIDS endemic in Indonesia

    similar with above, USA make generalisation that all people with Islamic name, certain citizenship, etc is suspicious and terrorist-related, thus should be treated in very inhumane ways as possible. Can you accept it ?

    this is a very very cruel prejudice, don’t you think ?

    PS : AIDS come from Africa … perhaps you should check all African tourist in Indonesia instead of Bule ones ?

  21. avatar donny says:
    November 2nd, 2009 at 11:06 am

    Ahhh …

    thanks to Google … now I know Julia Perez … no wonder her names sounds familiar
    thank you, Achmad … for introducing me to her =D

  22. avatar Oigal says:
    November 2nd, 2009 at 11:20 am

    After all this time Assmad, I was expecting harder questions…oh well I will try my best for you?

    *Who does the colonization in Indonesia ?

    The Javanese…or was is it the funny little Arab guy with the shuttle cocks?

    * Who takes Jupe (Julia Perez) away from us (the Bule).

    I thought it was the Dangdut Singers Mafia? Sexy but they hurt a lot when they get their dander up

    * Who made a financial crisis in 1997-98 (the Bule).

    Parker Brothers? Least that’s what my friends in the toy industry told me, they were looking for funny coloured money that had no real value for their monopoly board game. Turned out the rupiah cost less than the stuff they had been using.

  23. avatar brian astaga says:
    November 2nd, 2009 at 1:06 pm

    very glad assmad now has his own segment on the website, to express his issues!

  24. avatar Achmad Sudarsono says:
    November 2nd, 2009 at 1:22 pm

    Seksi Friends,

    It’s like generalisation that all foreigners (bule) are dirty and have strong possibility of having AIDS and plan to start AIDS endemic in Indonesia

    Maybe not all, just mostly. Friends, I think you have been brainwashed by the Bule into thinking like you do.

    As for your Arab friend, how do we know it was not a CIA plot to get to YOU ? How do we know your friend wasn’t working with the secret agent like in the 24 series ?

    Friends, I am just trying to protect Indonesia from many dangers. If you are Patriotic Indonesia, I suggest you to joins.

    @ Brian,

    I suggest you to listen to some Dangdut and watch some Dono Kasino Indro, then you will undersstand my way of thinking and become converted to it.

  25. avatar donny says:
    November 2nd, 2009 at 1:41 pm

    Dear Achmad

    very very nice to have this kind of discussion with you …

    me? being brainwashed by Bule ? I am mixed heritage … and the best bule can wash so far is my hair and my car … (ROTL) …

    and my friend is not arab … but Indonesian … from Bandung =D

    there are major difference between protecting and over-protecting, fella

    keep like this, and someday you’ll support killing for the sake of protection, religion, or whatever … whilst screaming out loud whenever someone abuse your religion / families / races …

    can’t we see fellow human being, with blood as red as ours, with 2 eyes, 2 ears, 2 arms, 2 legs like ours as brothers ? and together build a better, more peaceful world for our descendants ? instead of flaming more hatred for them ?

    and you still did not answer my question :
    If you’re bragging about this stupid ideas, can you accept whole-heartedly if authorities in other countries subject your families, friends, fella of the same religion to unjust and uncivilised law for the sake of “protection” ??

    can you accept what Israeli did to palestinian because they say it’s for the sake of their own protection ?? BECAUSE I CANNOT …

  26. avatar Cukurungan says:
    November 2nd, 2009 at 1:57 pm

    Mas Donny,

    You are too young to understand the real picture of this world, I would like to inform you that Pak Achmad Sudarsono is Bule who has been converted to become a brownman after he studied beauty of Pancasila and learned the brownman wisdom from this site. So please do no try to argue with him if he told you about the bule dark side because he know exactly the issue and he was once upon time on that side also.

    regards,
    servant of the truth

  27. avatar donny says:
    November 2nd, 2009 at 2:15 pm

    Hahahhaaa … very funny, Cuk =D

    whatever he is, to me he is a fellow human being … no more, no less
    and who can guarantee that his knowledge is correct ?

    this kind of thinking is degrading humanity, regardless what color of their skin
    so what if bule has dark sides ? or perhaps you’re suggesting that Indonesian did not have dark sides ??

    what happened to the victim of May 1998 riot ?? goes unnoticed ?
    what happened to the victim of PKI killing ? nationalisation ?? crushing of minorities ?

    at the bottom, we are the same, and I think I do have the right to question him, because truth can not be monopolised by one person, and I did not see Mr. Achmad complains to me, since this is all for the sake of healthy discussion

    so what if he’s a bule and converted ?? does that make him superior than me or the whole community ?? I consider him as a friend, regardless what his opinion is

    yes, he may know much more than I do … but do you know who I am ? how much I know to judge me as young person, a greenhorn ?? hahahahaa … very funny, Cuk

    If we think ourselves as smart person, knows everything … this lead to arrogancy, the feeling that you are better than others, and then … it blocks yourself from the very truth you’re seeking, as you never wants to accept other’s opinion … because you think you’re the greatest … right ? wonder where’s the humility …

    what I want to say is WHY WE ALWAYS FOCUS ON THE DARK SIDES … while there are soooo many things to do to improve the BRIGHT SIDES ?

  28. avatar Deta says:
    November 2nd, 2009 at 2:18 pm

    I am thinking here…..

    Colonization:
    Emm…actually the Dutch built some roads and infrastructures we still enjoy now. So let the past be the past

    Julia Perez:
    I come to think that “Julia Sudarsono” wouldn’t be a commercial name and wouldn’t sell for an artist. So let her go, mate.

    Financial Crisis 97-98:
    That’s the starting point of democracy and free speech era in Indonesia, so there is a silver lining even in the darkest cloud.

    Back to the topic about HIV test…it’s sad to see HIV is now spreading in Indonesia. Even sadder that the victims are not only adults but babies, since they get infected from their mothers. It’s a very high price we pay for globalization, I guess.

    Yeah….why can’t Indonesian govt put this test along with other health tests as a requirement for foreigners prior to their stay in Indonesia (regardless the visitor’s country of origin), like what has been applied in some countries. Maybe we don’t have to show off by doing on-the-spot test by pulling over bules in the traffic and get them checked for HIV on the side of the road…(as a true artist I hope you’re just exaggerating on this, Mas Achmad, or aren’t you?)

  29. avatar donny says:
    November 2nd, 2009 at 2:33 pm

    Nice to have you back, Deta

    read somewhere couple weeks ago … AIDS cure has been found … is it real ?
    and about compulsory HIV testing … still too tight, but acceptable =D
    afterall we’re all heading for a noble goal, right … ??

    but not by forcing some stupid law, I think

    add another story about AIDS / HIV
    one of my relatives needs blood transfusion since she’s undergo a major surgery
    so my cousin went to PMI (if I’m not mistaken) to BUY 2 pouches of blood – with HIV free label on it (ceritfied and tested to be free from HIV)

    just out of curiosity, he asked the hospital to perform a recheck … and VOILA … one pouch is positive containing HIV …

    of course he file a formal complaint to PMI … with result : he cannot buy more blood (with various reason) and have to buy it from PMI in other city

  30. avatar Oigal says:
    November 2nd, 2009 at 3:00 pm

    why can’t Indonesian govt put this test along with other health tests as a requirement for foreigners prior to their stay in Indonesia

    Deta, they cannot even conduct a temperature check at the airport yet. In Jakarta Airport the scanners are turned off more often than on. In our local airport (still international) the supposed health officials could not figure out why visitors threatened them with violence when they tried to stick those digital thermometers in their ear without changing the plastic guard from one person to the next. When they finally got that through their thick heads not once in six checks did they get anywhere near the ear canal to take the temp.

    Would anyone on the planet, trust one of these poorly trained numbskulls to be jabbing them with needles for a blood test? In your dreams perhaps
    Indonesia has far bigger problems…try malnutrition, typhoid, malaria, dengue fever to name a view.

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