FPI, Komando Laskar Islam & Munarman

Jun 4th, 2008, in News & Issues, by Patung

View the original article here.

52 Comments on “FPI, Komando Laskar Islam & Munarman”

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Apes Says:
June 12th, 2008 at 3:15 pm
Adi needs a reality check.

I personally spent my 9 years in Al Azhar, until I went abroad. Tell me something Adi, how many islam sect exist in this world? Do you even know? To be exact I only know 6, but there are more.

I used to be tought (Back in Al-Azhar) that we are a religion of unity, only one and nothing else (Unity? the best thing I remember from Al-Azhar was hearing my teacher telling me that I am not allowed to socialize with non muslims). Till reality hits when I went to college and saw some shiites, wahabis, sufi, hanafi, e.t.c, and yet they all beleive that their path is the outmost righteous one.

So what? if they (Ahmadiyah) would like to name themselve Islam? so be it. If you are offended by some gonzo creating a new religion in the name of Islam, instead of putting all the heat and anger to Ahmadiyah, why dont you put your anger towards shiites? after all They are the first sect to have tainted islam in the first place.

So Adi, learn some history… Islam had allready been tainted shortly after its birth and that was a long time ago.
dewaratugedeanom Says:
June 12th, 2008 at 8:16 pm
Marisa said

Perhaps people, especially commenters on this site, should use the term ‘Islamist’ rather than ‘Muslim’. It’s a gesture indicating that one is not critisizing the other’s religion or faith, but more of critisizing the other’s societal and political ideology. I’m not saying that people should practice a subtle ’self censorship’, but such journalistic approach could help the readers in defining the context used in a more clearcut, less offensive, way.

Patung, what do you think? Can you implement that for your articles?
Just a suggestion though.

Splendid idea. Because we all know by now that in Islam faith and political ideology are two entirely different issues that are absolutely not – I repeat absolutely not – related, don’t we? What happened recently in Monas, what happened two times in Bali, what happens and happened countless times all over the world since a certain Muhammad tried to lay his hands on the Ka’aba and its pilgrims’ money, is all about politics and faith or religion have nothing to do with it. Comments like these really make my day.

Some people, especially commenters on this site should better stick with lifestyle blogs and play with snowflakes instead of throwing themselves to the lions.
Just a suggestion though.
Shloka Says:
June 13th, 2008 at 12:22 am
@ Adi,

Religion and wife are not the same. Do you share your wife with 1 billion other people like you do your Islam? And as for feeling angry, I imagine the Jews felt angry too, when the Muslims took Hagar( Hajjar) out of their Torah and made her the mother of Arabs. The Muslims and Christians felt angry when Mohammed, declared himself the last and greatest of a line of Prophets which included them. If Mohammed had lived in the 21st century, he’d be sued for plagiarism.

@ Apes,

I imagine the Shias feel the same way about Sunnis.
Lairedion Says:
June 13th, 2008 at 12:26 am
Shloka said:

If Mohammed had lived in the 21st century, he’d be sued for plagiarism.

Don’t forget pedophilia, murder, abuse of women and theft…
Adi Says:
June 13th, 2008 at 2:53 pm
The muslims were confronting themselves but many comments here blame Jews, I don’t think there is a relationship between these arguments. It shows how stupid Indonesian, Indonesian are killing each other in the name of religion and blame someone else to responsible. Why? because Indonesians do not want to responsible for what they’ve done. Those at Monas do not have any brain (maybe they have, but they never use it) and act as real Muslims, because they believe that they can do anything they want to in the name of religion. Once again: how stupid Indonesians are..
dewaratugedeanom Says:
June 13th, 2008 at 7:33 pm
Or he might be put away for delusional schizofrenia, unless he would become protected by PCB’s, like what happened at the time in Mecca. If the Meccans would have dealt with him more firmly at the beginning than their half-hearted threats and protests for his delusional messages and sending him away on his ‘hijrah’, the world would have been spared lots of misery.
Shloka Says:
June 13th, 2008 at 9:12 pm
@ Lairedion,

Well, the past is the past- Moses, Mohammed et al could be sued. However the Muslims of the present day worry me. For instance, Jewish Prime Minister Golda Meir on being asked whether she believed in God answered,” I believe in the Jewish people, and the Jewish people believe in God.” The following are among the actions punishable by death according to the Torah:
1. Cheating on your husband, (Lev. 20:10).
2. Fornicating – if you’re female (Deut 22:21).
3. Homosexuality (Lev. 20:13).
4. Blasphemy (Lev. 24:16)
5. Insulting one’s parents (Exod. 21:17)
6. Disobeying one’s parents (Deut 21:18-21)

However, actually killing someone for any of these would get a Jew a life sentence in Israel, and the justification that they’re permitted in Torah won’t cut ice with the Court. However, the Muslims are a totally different case. Stonings for adultery in Iran and Saudi, death for blasphemy in Pakistan and other atrocities are everyday occurences in Muslim lands. Even though I’m a cultural Hindu, I hardly believe everything my scriptures say, I’m not even sure God exists. Too many Muslims seem to believe in a 7th century fairy tale, or rather a 7th century horror story more than they believe in gravity, and act precisely according to it disturbing the modern world which respects human rights and women’s equality.
@ Dewa,

Totally agree, the Meccans were way too soft. Thats’ the problem of polytheists, they’re way too tolerant. They easily let others worship another God, and will stoop to murder and violence only when its too late. I bet the Meccans sorely regretted their tolerance when Mohammed smashed their beloved idols and anyone wanting to stick to idolatry was put to death.
Lairedion Says:
June 13th, 2008 at 10:18 pm
@Shloka said:

However the Muslims of the present day worry me

True but what worries me even more are those PC Bules who are suffering from “all Muslims are pitiful” syndrome. Some of the commenters here on IM are also affected with this syndrome.

This is most evident in leftist political parties. For the sake of befriending and fear of alienating Muslims they are selling out traditional leftist issues like gender equity and gay and lesbian rights. So we have the paradox of leftist political parties having Muslims in their membership and electorate who are fiercely homophobic and feel women belong in the kitchen. And I’m talking about “moderate Muslims” here. I don’t think the generation of the 60’s had that in mind when they were fighting for more rights and trying to shrug off church influence on society and culture.

Muslims find these bules very useful to aide them with their demands for separate graveyards, separate swimming sessions for Muslim women, mushola’s at work, halal kitchens in uni’s etc.

Of course Leviticus is as hateful as the Qur’an. I ditched my Catholicism when I started to read the Bible and began to realize what crap was told in it. But nowadays I cannot find a Jewish/Christian nation on this planet still practicing Leviticus.

I do not consider myself a Buddhist but here are two Buddhist quotes I feel very comfortable with:

Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.

We should abandon the heresy of worshipping God and of praying to him. We should stops all speculation and vain talk about such matters and practice good so that good may result from our good deeds.
Shloka Says:
June 13th, 2008 at 10:39 pm
@ Lairedion,

Those leftists exist in India too, Hindu\ Christian etc women have equal inheritance and divorce rights while Muslim women’s lives are blighted by triple Talaq, lack of alimony in cases of divorse and polygamy. Hell, Bohra Muslim women in India undergo FGM and the leftist parties turn a blind eye to it.

I do agree with you that Buddha’s teachings are extemely rational and free from superstitions. Amazing that a man 2,600 years ago was so free from superstition. Buddhism was the majority religion in Sind( present day Pak), Bangladesh and Kashmir before Islam wiped it out from those places.

Waiting for PCB’s to call us ” part of the problem”
gOObers Says:
June 14th, 2008 at 12:41 am
Adi said:

Once again: how stupid Indonesians are…

Are you Indonesian, Adi? I’m sure you are not belong to the “Stupid Indonesian”, aren’t you?
Jibril Marpaung Says:
June 14th, 2008 at 4:46 pm
Mr Shloka…
You are a wise Guy. I Would clarified that whether i said Democracy system then I refer it to our “Liberal Democracy System”.

I Prefer myself not join to Our “Democracy System..” that is adopted from “Pro LIberal Democracy” ( I said pro Liberal-becuase almost all of our democracy system practically is adopted from Liberal Democracy System).
In my opinion,MUlticultural state can not be control using a Pro Liberal Democracy system or Maisntream Democracy.

Take the example : Russia, China

I Do not stand my oppinion for FPI nor AKKBB (Fundamentalist or LIberal). as we can see Our democracy System can not working, on very specific situation.
Laclau And Mouffe has explained to us on MUlticultural society Democracy can not be full applied.

I can understand That several violence activities by THe FPI, considering of most of them have track record as “uneducated people”, (Minus some people such as Rizieq and Munarman) how many of them have enrolled to college?. they can not be invited to discuss even their own ideology because they do not have qualification on it. We can not push them to understand something they can not cacth on their mind. They Can not Accept Difference.

Otherwise, The conflict It happened because there is a gap between Those people that live on peripherical side compare to those who join the AKKBB that most of them are educated people, some of them are respected people and graduated their College Abroad. But those people that Join to AKKBB is Too selfish and Arrogant on their own idea and push it as a discourse on media whether from bla bla Foundation or bla bla bla Institute. ARe the society understand about the idea the those liberal would applied?.. I don`t think so.. Then i twould be wastefull for them (AKKBB-Liberal).
Shloka Says:
June 14th, 2008 at 5:08 pm
@ Jibril Marpuang,

I’m not sure whether I completely agree or disagree with you. Your nation, Indonesia is similar to mine India- both developing countries, great diversity etc. Of course my country is much bigger in size, population and number of faiths. And of course, thugs like FPI also exist. But democracy in India is doing pretty finely, and its not bad in Indonesia too. I visited China once and was amazed to see how fast they were developing, and the FPI and like groups wouldn’t try their antics there. Oil prices also seem to be better managed in China than India or Indo…

But I guess I like to stick to full liberal democracy- I won’t like the press\internet censored or my right to vote, which I’ll get next year taken away- even if the Government gives me freedom from violent uneducated thugs in return.
andre Says:
June 18th, 2008 at 8:51 am
Most of are you are rather stupid. I am sorry to say that. How can we still believe in democracy or human right or any other jargon spoken to this world. They are all bulsh*t. Where in the world that it can establish fairly..?
Janma Says:
June 19th, 2008 at 3:17 pm
Shloka Uvaca;

Even though I’m a cultural Hindu, I hardly believe everything my scriptures say, I’m not even sure God exists.

I have a friend who is Australian but follows an Hindu cult and he tried to tell me the world was flat and had a great turtle under it and that it only looks round because we are looking at it with a round eye ball….. After I got up off the floor I asked him how come it hadn’t looked round before Galileo?
This man isn’t stupid, but I could see he was trying to convince himself of these ludicrous facts because he wanted to believe in the Hindu scriptures word for word.
Remember this letter that was circulating on the net a few years ago? A good reality check. It was addressed to a woman who was trying to preach (radio tv) that homosexuality was wrong because it said so in the bible.

Dear Dr. Laura,

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God’s law. I have learned a great deal from you, and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind him that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the specific laws and how to best follow them.

When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev. 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. How should I deal with this?

I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as it suggests in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev. 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

Lev. 25:44 states that I may buy slaves from the nations that are around us. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans but not Canadians. Can you clarify?

I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Lev. 10:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don’t agree. Can you settle this?

Lev. 20:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God’s word is eternal and unchanging.
Shloka Says:
June 19th, 2008 at 5:05 pm
@ Janma,

That letter to Dr. Laura was hysterical. I think it was Aluang Anak Bayang who wrote it, only he criticized Christianity this time, what do you think?

About whether Hindu scriptures say that the Earth is flat, the Shatapatha Brahmana and the Aitereya Brahmana of the 6th century B.C. says the Earth is a sphere. I checked out the Wikipedia entry on Spherical Earth and it confirmed what I’d known about Hindu scriptures saying about the Earth’s shape. Of course, Hinduism has many more texts than Christianity and its a very old faith too, the Indus Valley civilization 6000 years ago gave Hinduism many of its gods\esses and practices. Maybe the turtle story came from a text older than the 6th B.C.? Of course, whatever my scriptures say on science or morality, if it contradicts with modern science and human rights, it should be promptly discarded. I am a cultural Hindu because I need to pray before my exams, and should any big calamity befall me, I need something like a God or Higher Power to turn to. I don’t think I personally need a reality check, I think my country is better living life according to the modern ideas of rationality, secularism and equality for all humans, rather than trying to interpret and imagine what Hinduism says on the subject.

By the way, why do you call me Shloka Uvaka?
janma Says:
June 22nd, 2008 at 1:03 pm
Sloka Uvaca means Sloka said, in sanskrit, I thought you would know that. many verses (or sloka) from the scriptures (for example Bhagavad Gita) start with
eg. Arjuna Uvaca…. Arjuna said….(in a somewhat whiny voice) “But Krishna I don’t wanna kill all my relatives…”
Sri Krishna Uvaca…”Don’t be such a baby! Pull up the Brahmastra will you and aim it at yer uncle”
janma Says:
June 22nd, 2008 at 1:05 pm
Oh, and about the turtle…. the balinese believe in the turtle idea too. they think that the island of bali rests on a turtles back. wasn’t that the story of kurma from scripture in india?
Shloka Says:
June 22nd, 2008 at 5:18 pm
@ Janma,

No, I didn’t know that. I’ve read translations of the Gita and the Mahabharata, but not in Sanskrit. Thanks for enlarging my knowledge!

And as for the turtle story, yes its definitely there and in Hindu scriptures. You see there are two very important aspects of Hindu religious thought- theology and mythology. Like all polytheisms it has a very rich and entertainig mythology tradition replete with stories of gods and demigods’ vanities and quarrels, which is similar to Ancient Egyptian, Greek and Mesopotemian myths. It also has two great epics- the Ramayana and the Mahabharat, like the Greek epics of Illiad and Oddyssey, and the Hindu epics form an important aspect of Balinese life. The story of the God Vishnu carrying the Earth as a turtle on his back is a part of this mythology.

At the same time, Hinduism has a complex literature of philosophy and metaphysics present in the Vedas. The Satapatha Brahmana and the Aiteraya Brahmana of 600 B.C. were Hindu theology and the world’s earliest literature to affirm the concept of a spherical Earth. Later in the 5th century A.D. the great Hindu mathematician Aryabhatta dealt with the sphericity of the Earth and the motion of the planets. The final two parts of his Sanskrit magnum opus the Aryabhatiya, which were named the Kalakriya (“reckoning of time”) and the Gola (“sphere”), state that the earth is spherical and that its circumference is 4,967 yojanas, which in modern units is 39,968 km, very close to the current value of 40,030 km. He also stated that the apparent rotation of the celestial objects was due to the actual rotation of the earth, calculating the length of the sidereal day to be 23 hours, 56 minutes and 4.1 seconds, which is also surprisingly accurate. Aryabhata’s results influenced European astronomy, because the 8th century Arabic version of the Aryabhatiya was translated into Latin in the 13th century.Aryabhatta and other Indian mathematicians who affirmed a spherical Earth weren’t tried for blasphemy or put into the slightest inconvenience due to their heretical beliefs, so the notion of a spherical Earth wasn’t revolutionary at least in India’s intellectual circles.

However, these complex scientific and philosophical knowledge doesn’t permeate into general consciousness, at least in ancient and medieval times, and the common people undoubtedly found the flat Earth on turtle story much more entertaining and easier to comprehend.

I hope this information helps. However, I personally won’t and I don’t encourage anyone to reject human rights’, women’s rights or science, no matter what Hinduism says.
janma Says:
June 23rd, 2008 at 10:14 am
Actually there are plenty of places in the hindu scriptures where they state the world is flat. The Narasingha purana for example. Plus in the 5th canto of the Srimad Bhagavatam the explanation of the shape of our universe is ‘out of this world’ (pun intended) but they pretty much state that the moon is much further away from the earth than the sun is. Plus they have some weird descriptions of planets that have ’sugarcane juice’ in their oceans…. Go figure hey!
Shloka Says:
June 23rd, 2008 at 4:55 pm
Yes of course, Hinduism has the most amazing number of scriptures and they’re quite contradictory. When possible, I cherry pick the most rational among them, and when not possible ignore them!
la la la Says:
July 4th, 2008 at 6:09 am
Islam is the only religion which allows violence in the name of religion. Sure christian and probably all other religions HAD the same problem too, but not nowadays. To all muslim, I don’t go against your religion. But as time goes by, people has changed including their values. People nowadays don’t tolerance any kind of violence. Be smart, be adaptable.
Sweely Says:
January 1st, 2010 at 4:36 am
Reply to “la la la”:

I do not agree with you. Islam does not allow violence. Read the quran.