SKB Ahmadiyah

Jun 10th, 2008, in IM Posts, by

mirza ghulam ahmad A police chief explains about the SKB edict against Ahmadiyah and under what terms arrests will be made.

On June 9th the ministerial edict against the Ahmadiyah sect was finally issued. Depending on whose interpretation is accepted it is either or both a "warning" and an "order" that the Jemaat Ahmadiyah Indonesia (JAI) cease its activities, or at least those activities which are deemed to be abnormal in terms of Islamic orthodoxy.

On June 10th police general Abubakar Nataprawira in Jakarta said that the "SKB 3" ruling did not forbid Ahmadiyah people from praying in public mosques or holding any kind of worship activity, provided that the words spoken during such prayers and services did not go against Islamic teachings, for example by saying that there was another prophet after Muhammad.

If such things were spoken then those involved would be immediately arrested and charged under Article 156a of the Criminal Code dealing with blasphemy, he said. [1]


20 Comments on “SKB Ahmadiyah”

  1. avatar Rambutan says:
    June 10th, 2008 at 5:59 pm

    The intelligence services will be delighted as they have an additional 200,000 people to spy on. This whole thing is ridiculous and just sad.

  2. avatar timdog says:
    June 10th, 2008 at 8:34 pm

    One is inclined to suspect that this edict does represent a deliberately unworkable ruling… It’s hardly unprecedented for cowardly, befuddled governments to fudge issues by passing laws that no one is ever going to be able to implement… It’s not brave, but sometimes it does actually have the desired effect of making the troublesome issue “just go away”…

  3. avatar djoko says:
    June 10th, 2008 at 10:19 pm

    One is inclined to suspect that this edict does represent a deliberately unworkable ruling…

    Its yet another example of the basic Indonesian system of compromise. The government knows that it can neither outright ban the sect (the uproar on these forums is indication enough of the kind of reaction it would receive from the international community), nor can it legalise it totally as a sect within Islam due to the (over)sensitivity of Muslims in Indonesia regarding it. So the government does what it does with most issues, provides a symbolic ‘solution’ which provides enough of a grand gesture to please one side (in this case hypersensitive Muslims) while at the same time being so unworkable such that its never really going to have any effect anyway.

    As Timdog says, this could have the effect of making the problem fade away silently. Or on the other hand it may merely postpone it to a later date…..

    I still dont understand why from the very beginning it wasnt declared a separate religion and be done with it, leaving them to practice their own faith in peace. No different than what Shloka said in another thread with regards to all the different churches under Christianity.

  4. avatar mirax says:
    June 10th, 2008 at 11:18 pm

    What is the legal status of the Bahais in Indonesia then? Their entire faith is premised on the fact that mohammed was not the final prophet in the Abrahamic tradition.

    Does the constitution of Indonesia make special provision for Islam as some sort of ‘state’ religion? If blasphemy actually is a prosecutable offence, what sort of cases have been tried under it thus far? Can indonesian muslims openly recant their religion?

    While I am definitely going to do my research into the above areas, I’d appreciate some quick answers from the regulars here.

  5. avatar Shloka says:
    June 11th, 2008 at 12:19 am

    The European Union is still overwhelmingly Christian, at least nominally. Christianity holds that, Jesus Christ is the Son of God and everything that had to be said about God has been said by Jesus 2000 years ago. How would Muslims in Europe feel if they were given a taste of their own medicine? If for instance European Courts declared that Muslims were not prohibited from praying in public mosques or holding any kind of worship activity, provided that the words spoken during such prayers and services did not go against ” Christian” teachings, for example by saying that Jesus was not the Son of God, just another Prophet ,denying Jesus’s crucifixion or claiming that Prophet Mohammed(PBUH) was last and greatest in a line of Prophets which included Jesus. If such things were spoken then those involved would be immediately arrested and charged with blasphemy.

    Why can’t these”hypersensitive” Muslims understand and accept that, for Ahmadiyyas and other such heretics, acknowledging Ghulam Mirza Ahmed as Prophet is as much part of their belief system as accepting Mohammed(PBUH) is for Muslims?

    I find it appalling that, while hypersensitive Muslims demand freedom of worship everywhere, they deny the same freedom to people of other faiths. Muslims in France will violently protest if headscarves are banned in schools, however they will make headscarves obligatory on all non Muslim women in Saudi and Iran. They will be delighted and widely publicize every non Muslim’s conversion (or as they call it “reversion” to Islam) but impose a death penalty on apostates in Saudi,Mauritania, Yeman,Sudan etc.

  6. avatar Lairedion says:
    June 11th, 2008 at 12:51 am

    Shloka said:

    Why can’t these”hypersensitive” Muslims understand and accept that, for Ahmadiyyas and other such heretics, acknowledging Ghulam Mirza Ahmed as Prophet is as much part of their belief system as accepting Mohammed(PBUH) is for Muslims?

    How can you expect people firmly believing in a 1400 year old fantasy story from the Arabian desert as the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth to use logic, reason and common sense?

  7. avatar jaka says:
    June 11th, 2008 at 1:12 am

    Why I see the SKB does not change anything? It is just a mere soft warning to JAI (not all Ahmadiyyah, as FPI and friends wanted to). Nothing changes. It resumes status quo. What lacks is simply (and sadly) no warning to FPI for doing physical attacks to groups (or their belongings) they don’t like.

    And, again, I see this is enough for groups such as FPI. Why should we bother using human rights (or any humanity-related) concepts to handle people that already forget how to use brain instead of their hands? You may laugh about it, but Indonesians will call it “wise”, or “measured”.

    I am personally sad, but this happens regularly in Indonesian lower class societies because it works! Javanese says “sing waras ngalah”.

  8. avatar Mach Jabber says:
    June 11th, 2008 at 2:19 am

    This generation has been spoonfed with bullsh*t since their adolescent years. It’s the whole “five religions” thing, I’d say. People around me don’t even know that there are religions outside the five. And as for muslims, most are utterly ignorant of the fact that there exist things like Ahmadiyya, Shia, and company.

    That is why. Indonesians regard religions like some kind of football clubs. Established and rigid. Unfamiliar with diversity.

  9. avatar David says:
    June 11th, 2008 at 2:54 am

    What is the legal status of the Bahais in Indonesia then? Their entire faith is premised on the fact that mohammed was not the final prophet in the Abrahamic tradition.

    Does the constitution of Indonesia make special provision for Islam as some sort of ’state’ religion? If blasphemy actually is a prosecutable offence, what sort of cases have been tried under it thus far? Can indonesian muslims openly recant their religion?

    While I am definitely going to do my research into the above areas, I’d appreciate some quick answers from the regulars here.

    Here is something on Bahai, and then plenty on blasphemy.

  10. avatar pribumi says:
    June 11th, 2008 at 5:48 am

    Reminds me of what had happened in Europe 5-600 hundreds of years ago. People got killed and burned because of standing up against the mainstream. Some already sent a spaceship to the Mars, where in Indonesia many Moslem people still chase Ahmadiyah people like they are dogs that has to be killed. Even Papua Godless tribal natives are less barbaric than them.

  11. avatar Shloka says:
    June 11th, 2008 at 10:24 am

    @ Pribhumi,
    Can totally relate to your Europe analogy. Did you know, in Saudi Arabia an illiterate woman Fayza Falih is to beheaded as a “witch” as she supposedly turned a man impotent with her spells. Saudi recently executed an Egyptian for ” sorcery”. The last time Europe executed a “witch” was in 1781, 225 years ago. Tch,tch- poor people, always hundreds of years backwards.

  12. avatar Ross says:
    June 11th, 2008 at 10:55 am

    Presumably the presumptuous arrogance of this decree could as easily be applied to either Catholics or Protestants, since both are Christian and must, one or the other, be equally susceptible to the infinite theological wisdom of SBY’s political hatchet-men, as to which creed is deviating from Christ’s teachings. Indeed, I’m amazed SBY doesn’t delegate his cabinet to globe-trot from synod to assembly to conclave, since they clearly consider themselves expert arbiters on matters of faith – pity they can’t solve Indonesia’s practical problems so cleverly.
    It was depressing to watch tv last night, on how the victims of MUI/FPI’s Axis of Evil were planning to cope with their new second-class citizenship.
    TV One at 6.45 am today showed households that had put up stickers saying ‘Non-Ahmadiyah’ for fear of assault by bigoted Muslims.
    This is sadly reminiscent of the faded signs still painted on shops and other buildings all over Jakarta, saying ‘Muslim’ or ‘pribumi’ (native) which were plastered up in 1998 to ward off similar primitives who were attacking Chinese ethnic homes and shops. Probably some of the same FPI vermin were out then as now, with new juvenile delinquents these days joining the old ones.
    (An interesting article appeared in the JPO 10/6 by Budiawan, a lecturer at Sanata Dharma University in Jogjakarta, entitled ‘Is the FPI Radical?’ He says that based on research by a Muslim scholar, Al-Zastrouw Ngalawi, they aren’t really very ‘into’ religion, being more concerned with building up their own status and making money as a ‘vehicle for hire, sustaining social and economic privileges for its founders, whose businesses failed during the economic crisis of 1997.’

  13. avatar janma says:
    June 11th, 2008 at 11:16 am

    TV One at 6.45 am today showed households that had put up stickers saying ‘Non-Ahmadiyah’ for fear of assault by bigoted Muslims.

    those stickers were not put up by the people who owned the houses. they admitted they woke in the morning and the stickers were just there… they had no idea who put them up there.
    Plus the problem for muslims with ahmadiyya is not that they have different beliefs than muslims, so do the bahai, so do the christians etc, the problem is that they are ‘muslims’ and they don’t believe that Muhammad is the last prophet. They believe he is a prophet, but not the last one.
    As for the SKB, it is not such a soft solution if you ask me… one slip up from ahmadiyya and these people will take it to the next level. Plus for me what the government just did was a very dangerous thing, and Indonesia is now standing at the top of a very slippery slope. in effect they caved in to the demands of terrorists. it’s beyond my understanding how a man can go on national tv and threaten the country with war if his demands are not met, and then to have them met. If that’s not wind beneath the wings of the radicals then I don’t know what is. don’t think they will stop there, they realize now that they can get what they want if they threaten all out war, they will not stop until they get what they want.
    It is a worry. I’m worried. I feel like I’m living in Germany in 1938.

  14. avatar Hasan Zuberi says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 2:59 pm

    Ahmadiyah movement started in un-divided India …. as a Muslim movement but later its leader Mirza Ghulam Ahmed claimed not only prophethood … but also called himself as the promised Messiah and finally claimed to be the Mehdi (or the last leader of muslim)

    His teachings are outside the boundaries of Islam as taught by the Prophet muhammad SAW … or the basic Kalima … There is no god but Allah and Muhammad is the (last) Messanger of Allah.

    If Ahmadiyah call themself as a seperate religion, no one has problems with them … but all they do is to claim as Muslims … which they are certainly not.

    I, a Pakistani married to an Indonesian, am happy that Indonesian Government finally followed the stance initiated by Pakistan back in 1970 and declared them as a non-muslim religion.

    Ever thought how Ahmadiyah (aka Qadyani) community can easily visit Israel and no muslim (even holder of Western passport) can not?

    … and why do they have their biggest temple in Haifa, Israel? … just like Bahai’s ??

  15. avatar mirax says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 4:41 pm

    Ah Pakistani has come to warn us about the nefarious Ahmadis and Bahais. Just wonderful , take your instruction on religion from him and reap the benefits of being a successful, peaceful and prosperous nation state.

    Israel is the Bahai’s holy land but you can blame the shah of iran for that! Their founder was exiled to the OTTOMAN held territory in the 19th century – note , way before there was anything called israel – and it remains their focus because he then died there.

    The qadianis may well have a similar history. If they were in Haifa before the creation of Israel, you cannot smear them as as some kind of zionist secret agent and persecute them on that basis. Iran does this with its bahais and it is utterly disgraceful!

  16. avatar Hasan Zuberi says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 5:03 pm

    Worldly success, peace and prosperity … on the verge of selling your religion .. may be sound religious to you … but not to muslims who enter into this religion by accepting the un-seen God and believeing in his one-ness and Prophecy of Muhammad SAW as his last messanger.

    Islam have never advocated violence … nor I did in my post … infact i started it on a peaceful note that Ahmadiyah should claim it a seperate religion and we have no problem … but offcourse you and propogaters like you … who wish to see destruction of Islam … can never feel it.

    The Babi movement and its successor Baha Ullah’s Bahai movement started in the same time as of Qadyani movement in India with common goal as to divide the ranks of muslims who were fighting the Britishers and Athiest movements in the mid 18th centuary. They choose the exile to save their mere lives after insulting the Prophet.

    Bahai learned the lesson and distanced themselves from islam … as they had no similaritiy in beliefs. Ahmadiya will insha Allah soon follow the same path.

    Islam has never insulted any religion … but defended its boundaries and stance … and personally i think its the same as patriortism.

    As for being a Pakistani … Allhamdolillah we have always be a front runners in protecting the religion and insha Allah will do it till the end of times.

  17. avatar ache says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 7:48 pm

    PROPOSAL TO the SOLVING OF the PROBLEM OF AHMADIYAH
    To finish the problem of Ahmadiyah locally and also nationally in Indonesia, we raise the following solution and therapy
    1. Elementary cause [is] existence of conflict [among/between] Ahmadiyah and People Islam [is] that Ahmadiyah teaching assumed by People Islam majority have smirched perity [of] elementary Islamic Religion teaching which [is] very and prinsipil. Whereas penodaan law to religion teaching ( especially Islam) clear in itself Islam teaching and have been arranged in [code/law] ( No. 1 PNPS Th. 1965
    2. Ahmadiyah, in its age which have more one hundred ( 100) year in the reality [do] not [is] smoothly accepted by Islam people in general, [oppositely;also] get super contradiction excrutiatingly, refused [by] among moslem majority nations ( Islam world), even have time to berdarah-darah [in] India and Pakistan where its birth place [of] Itself Ahmadiyah
    3. By empirik history, Ahmadiyah have never agreed with Islam people majority and [is] always assumed [by] Islam people penyesat sect or faction
    4. In religious history in the reality on the happening of in one religion there are very elementary and principal difference, even bear endless conflict, hence solution most peaceful and balmy [is] disjointing religion. This matter (sorry) such as those which have happened among Christian religion, officially and law now have come to two ( 2) separate religion, that is Katholik religion and Religion Protestant
    5. We agree that : " Protection guarantee punish and human right for the latitudinarian of and practice worship according to religion and [his/its] trust", [is] absolute have to be realized and a[n undoubtedly, including also guarantee believe in and practice worship to Ahmadiyah. But beside lainpun " Protection guarantee punish to perity [of] teaching a[n religion from dirty hand [of] penodaan" even also need there [is] rule of law, to guarantee inexistence pettishiness [of] religious feeling and life trouble believe in resulting the happening of endless horizontal conflict
    6. In section 28(J) article 2 UUD 45 result of amandeman express that : " In overtake and its freedom, each and everyone [is] obliged to bow to specified [by] demarcation [is] [code/law] for the purpose of solely for guarantee confession and also respect by right of and freedom [of] others and to fulfill fair demand as according to moral consideration, religion values, [common/ public] orderliness and security in a[n demokrtis society
    7. Handling Ahmadiyah have to emphatically and prosly active from Government or [party/ side] in charge, because if silent [by] government hence peripatetic [of] Islam ummat alone with all and insuffiency excess [of] its potency. Because of Ahmadiyah position in Islamiyah aqidah clear downwards it[him] International League Moslem religious advices and or Nationally [pass/through] MUI, hence Ahmadiyah have to be disbanded and prohibited in Indonesia under colour of approach [of] internal law [of] Islam ummat and Teaching Islam alone. Positive law as formal legality.
    8. SKB about this Ahmadiyah will be effective [of] JAI manakala will dropping the ball [him/ it] with their Kholifah [in] English, because JAI [is] the part of kekhalifahan [of] Ahmadiyah [in] English. Without disconnection of with Its its[his] [in] English, hence Ahmadiyah anything teaching will [is] equal to Its teaching [of] nya [in] English. Hierarchy Leadership [of] Ahmadiyah Qodianiyah very crystal clear, loo like with System Whale in Religion Katholik or Imamah Syi'Ah sect system in Islam
    9. If with solution above getting immune to also hence other alternative, so that calm Ahmadiyah in running its religion teaching and get definitive law guarantee, [is] and also treated dispassionately and [do] not didiskrimatifkan by Government, hence is better [of] Ahmadiyah formed as new RELIGION in Indonesia ( possible its name [of] Religion Ahmadiyah), because its supporter elements have complete enough. For example Prophet and Its its[his] there [is] ( Mirza Ghulam Ahmad), holy buku [of] aliance nya can from Al-Quran and Tadzkirah ( like Its it[him] Christian, aliance from Taurat Mozes and Bible Jesus) because Mirza Ghulam Ahmad alone confess that apocalipse which go down to him domicile equivalent [him/it] with apocalipse in Al-Quran.

  18. avatar Aluang Anak Bayang says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 11:04 pm

    pribumi Says:

    June 11th, 2008 at 5:48 am
    Reminds me of what had happened in Europe 5-600 hundreds of years ago. People got killed and burned because of standing up against the mainstream. Some already sent a spaceship to the Mars, where in Indonesia many Moslem people still chase Ahmadiyah people like they are dogs that has to be killed. Even Papua Godless tribal natives are less barbaric than them.

    Just in case you missed out .. scroll back to UFO Technology

    By the way, don’t pretend to be pribumi. Nothing in your comments so far whatsoever prove you are one of us.

  19. avatar Shahid says:
    June 18th, 2008 at 2:48 am

    Hasan has added a word to the holy kalima (that is the word last). Is it not heretical to add a word to the kalima?

    Non-Ahmadi Muslims say that the Holy Propeht Muhammad is the last prophet but believe that Jesus will come and perfect Islam. This means that they do not believe that the Holy Prophet Muhammad was the last prophet but Jesus will be the last prophet.

    Non-Ahmadi Muslims believe that parts of the holy Quran have been abrogated. Is this not heretical?

    Sunni Muslims believe that the Holy Prophet kept women without marrying them. Is this not heresy?

    Sunni Muslims believe that the Holy Propeht married a 6 year old girl. Is this not heretical?

    Shall I go on?

  20. avatar Hasan Zuberi says:
    June 18th, 2008 at 5:52 pm

    Mr. Shahid to correct the record … I have not “added” any word to the meanings of Kalima … it is how it is intrepreted & understood by us, the Muslims.

    Secondly There is no such thing as “Ahmadi-Muslim” …

    Pls stop confusing us with this oxymoron … Ahmadis are not muslims by any means.

    As for your queries:

    YOU WORTE: Muslims say that the Holy Propeht Muhammad is the last prophet but believe that Jesus will come and perfect Islam. This means that they do not believe that the Holy Prophet Muhammad was the last prophet but Jesus will be the last prophet.

    …. As per our muslim belief … Jesus AS (or Essa) will come again but NOT as a prophet but as a human being who will fight under the leadership of (Imam = Leader) Mehdi AS.

    So … Prophet Muhammad was the last prophet and will stay the last prophet & messanger of Allah SWT.

    YOU WROTE: Muslims believe that parts of the holy Quran have been abrogated. Is this not heretical?

    …. To add knowledge to you … Muslims belief is that …. Quran are the true words of God… it was completed in a span of 23 years … certain regulations were changed as per the change of political scenario …. there was a time when Muslims were asked not to fight and then there was time when they were asked to repel the attacks by mushrikeen.

    Unlike your Ahmadi book .. “Tazkira” where your prophet Ghulam Kazab shanged his own statements at many places.

    YOU WROTE: Sunni Muslims believe that the Holy Prophet kept women without marrying them. Is this not heresy?

    YOU WROTE: Sunni Muslims believe that the Holy Propeht married a 6 year old girl. Is this not heretical?

    Well … certain things were only destined for Prophet Muhammad …. and thats made him the Prophet …. he had 9 wives altogether … but when the hukum came for 4 .. he had 4 at one time … also the concept of slave girls is part of Islam and there is nothing wrong with it.

    As for his marriage to 6 years old … you forget or may be delibritely missed the part that …. he bring her tio his house after the puberty age.

    Unlike the Ghulam Kazab who tried to kidnap and make marriage to his own cousin (who was already married to another cousin) … and also he had guts to accept that in his books.

    If you really want to discuss here … my challange to all AHMADIs … lets discuss the Seera’h / life style of your (false) Prophet … as he himself wrote in his books … how he drank wine …. how he had relationships …. and how he served the interest of the Britishers over the Muslims …. and how he established clase ties with the Israelis ??

    Shall I go on, now?



Your view on “SKB Ahmadiyah” :


RSS
RSS feed
Email

Copyright Indonesia Matters 2006-14
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Contact