How to Get a Bule Man

Apr 14th, 2008, in Girls, IM Posts, by

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410 Comments on “How to Get a Bule Man”

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  1. avatar dewaratugedeanom says:
    May 19th, 2008 at 7:03 pm

    timdog

    The only motivation for this legislation, like so much in the government of Indonesia’s approach to individual – note, induvidual – foreigners, would be finacial exploitation.

    The only motivation for this legislation is ‘get the money where it is’.

  2. avatar timdog says:
    May 19th, 2008 at 7:19 pm

    You’re damn right it hit a nerve…

    I’m not bitter towards people with better financial circumstances, but have you any idea how financially difficult life can be for in Britain for people of lower-middle-class and downwards – particularly if they happen to have graduate debt to maintain? Neither I, my parents or my brother would be able to raise £30,000 to buy me if a wife if the situation arose.

    Now consider this: an Indonesian girl meets a bule of similar age and social class to her – perhaps he is a student, doing a semester at an Indonesian university (not entirely unusual) and they meet in class… Now, whether or not a marriage between such a pair would have any special chance for long term success is beside the point, but it would certainly be starting from a point of reasonable equality and would be less likely to engender sneering cynicism in observers than some bule-Indonesian unions… but chances are, if there was such a “marriage fee”, that such a bule as that would be priced out of the market…

    If this fee existed it would only serve to entrench the old cliched idea that all bule-Indonesian marriages are about fat, rancid, sleazy old white guys buying themselves a complient little brown wife, or about heartless, exploitative Indonesian girls latching onto any wealthy bule as an instant ticket outta here to untold riches…

    @rima and dewa – even if it was only 50 mil – which I could just about scrape together – I would still find it grossly offensive; dammit! if it was 5 million I would still consider it a particularly foul piece of legislation…

  3. avatar dewaratugedeanom says:
    May 19th, 2008 at 8:10 pm

    Well, let’s be honest. The legislation’s main purpose is to avoid trafficking of women. With a high amount of money in suspension, the temptation to use a simple village girl for less than honorable purposes becomes less obvious. The more so because the woman is taken out of her habitat and cultural environment and in many cases has no clue where to turn to if things go wrong.
    Whether in Indonesia this money will be kept or spent according to what it was intended for is another question.

  4. avatar Rob says:
    May 19th, 2008 at 8:18 pm

    The Jakarta Post reported it as IDR 500 million at the time.

    The other sources for the figure were Supreme Court people who were discussing this issue at the time.

    It did not eventuate.

  5. avatar rima says:
    May 19th, 2008 at 8:26 pm

    @timdog:
    yeah it is foul. it’s the new indonesian mtv show ‘pimp our women’

    @dewaratugedeanom: avoid trafficking of women? really?
    the govt should be concerned about the thousands of women domestic helpers who are off working in middle eastern countries and are raped, tortured and abused. yet instead of being concerned about this, they are letting the military mafia run operations in the airport where these domestic helpers arrive and steal their money from them.
    I think govt officials simply found a new way to get more money into their pockets, those slimy pimping ars*hol*s.

  6. avatar Rob says:
    May 19th, 2008 at 8:28 pm

    Dewa…

    To avoid trafficking in women or to legitimate it if it is done by the government?

    There is no dispute from me that there is a need to eradicate trafficking in women and children! However, the question remains whether or not this is the best way! I stand by my original assessment that it was a stupid idea and it seems that the issue has gone off the radar, at least for now…I think the idea was broached with a view to getting rid of contract marriages…

    I thought it was stupid because the regulation never considered what would happen with the cash should the marriage not fail…Not all marriages between expats and Indonesians fail! If I am forking out 500 million then I would want to know whether the amount is indexed against inflation and how it is to be divided up at the end! Technically it is an asset of the marriage, right? After 20 years of marraige I would be hoping that if I did not get any of it back then at least the ex-missus was getting what it was worth at the rate of the day and not when I deposited it with the government!

    For me it is not that it hits a nerve…I guess if it had of been the law at the time then, like Timdog, I would not have been able to afford it. However, I guess that means being creative and finding loopholes or it might just have meant that I would have had to return to Australia by going through the hassle of getting the appropriate visa for the prospective missus, and then get married there…where there is a will there is a way.

  7. avatar dewaratugedeanom says:
    May 19th, 2008 at 9:03 pm

    @rima

    Well, I maybe be naive but I believed that the purpose of laws like these was to protect the weak. Maybe I was wrong.
    If what you said about these operations by the military mafia in the airports is true then it is time some NGO’s start to pay attention and make these anomalies known to the world. The U.N. Committee Against Torture recentlly published a report on abuses in the justice system by the police and military, so they should maybe extend it to all places where the public comes into contact with these ‘authorities’.

  8. avatar Patrick says:
    May 19th, 2008 at 10:07 pm

    Our ancestors in Western Europe have used dowries for many centuries to protect women. I bet no westerner would ever think to refer a dowry as trafficking in woman? Does this mean our family trees are filled with pimps and whores? How cool is that? :>)

  9. avatar Rob says:
    May 19th, 2008 at 11:28 pm

    My question is this: Is the “bride price”to be paid to the government or to the family or put in some kind of trust?

    I am not concerned so much with the idea in history and its existence. Egypt if I am not mistaken requires foreigners deposit 25,000 Egyptian pounds (going off memory, apologies for any errors) and this is where the Indonesian idea stemmed from! There are plenty of modern examples.

    The idea was stupid because it was ill-conceived and not properly thought out! Maybe some could afford it and maybe some could not afford it if teh rate was arbitrarily set at X. However, if it was a percentage of your net worth or some similar graded scale of price, then maybe this would work. Yet, there are still issues about how the money is to be dealt with if it is a cash payment (could you pay in goods or other assets?).

    I guess if we look hard enough and perhaps far enough in our family trees we might indeed find characters or note! We might find pimps and hookers, but we might also find kings and queens! That is the beauty of family!

  10. avatar janma says:
    May 20th, 2008 at 1:16 pm

    Does this mean our family trees are filled with pimps and whores? How cool is that? :>)

    oh well, I’ve already got thieves and convicts….. pimps and whores would just be the cherry on top.
    In india they use a dowry system and it’s not a good thing if you ask me. One reason is that girls are viewed as bad luck when they’re born because they will cost so much money to marry off and then they aren’t you’re family anymore anyway. Another reason is that there is a huge trend of families having their sons marry girls and obtaining her huge dowry, then said girl (in a nylon saree) has a cooking ‘accident’ and goes up in flames. Dowry goes to husband family who can then go out and find a new one.

  11. avatar MbakAditya says:
    May 20th, 2008 at 2:26 pm

    Achmad Sudarsono Says:

    May 19th, 2008 at 6:30 pm
    Mbak Aditya,

    Good to hear someone fighting for Pancasila ! I’m sure our Pejabat won’t rip off any of the money, including our judges and DPR members !

    Well surely you agree with the prinsip Achmad? surely we can’t allow these impecunious bules to just run in and take our pribumi women without a thankyou?

    timdog Says:

    May 19th, 2008 at 7:19 pm
    You’re damn right it hit a nerve…

    I’m not bitter towards people with better financial circumstances, but have you any idea how financially difficult life can be for in Britain for people of lower-middle-class and downwards – particularly if they happen to have graduate debt to maintain? Neither I, my parents or my brother would be able to raise £30,000 to buy me if a wife if the situation arose.

    Now consider this: an Indonesian girl meets a bule of similar age and social class to her – perhaps he is a student, doing a semester at an Indonesian university (not entirely unusual) and they meet in class… Now, whether or not a marriage between such a pair would have any special chance for long term success is beside the point, but it would certainly be starting from a point of reasonable equality and would be less likely to engender sneering cynicism in observers than some bule-Indonesian unions… but chances are, if there was such a “marriage fee”, that such a bule as that would be priced out of the market…

    Oh Kasihan Timmy, still have a graduate debt to pay off? Are you really serious that your whole family cannot raise thirty thousand of your british pounds for true love?

    As I recal, the idea is that the money is placed on deposit so that in the event that the marriage fails and your wife tires of eating egg and chips pagi, siang dan malam, that when she returns back to Indonesia, she has some fund so that she can continue her life.

    There are so many stories about bules who trap young javanese girls into a life of slavery.

    They need some protection.

  12. avatar timdog says:
    May 20th, 2008 at 3:37 pm

    @MbakAditya – YES GODAMMIT I am serious that neither I nor my family could raise £30 000. Hell, I don’t know what kind of life or lifestyle it is that you and your family enjoy where £30 000 can be plucked from the ether at the drop of the hat to buy a wife, but it sure the hell ain’t the same as mine. I doff my cap to you yer ladyship; tis an honour even to talk to you yer ladyship, scrape, scrape, yer ladyship… (that’s old-fashioned British class bitterness coming through that is, in case you were wondering – and it’s only partly tongue-in-cheek).

    There are so many stories about bules who trap young javanese girls into a life of slavery.

    I’ve not heard so many of those stories, but I’ve heard plenty of tales of young Javanese girls trapped into a life of slavery and abuse as domestic servants in Malaysia and the Middle East; I think that would be a more pressing issue than extorting money out of dirty, sleazy old white guys (who’d all go to the Phillipines to buy themselves a wife instead if it cost so much in Indonesia).

  13. avatar MbakAditya says:
    May 20th, 2008 at 4:09 pm

    @MbakAditya – YES GODAMMIT I am serious that neither I nor my family could raise £30 000. Hell, I don’t know what kind of life or lifestyle it is that you and your family enjoy where £30 000 can be plucked from the ether at the drop of the hat to buy a wife, but it sure the hell ain’t the same as mine. I doff my cap to you yer ladyship; tis an honour even to talk to you yer ladyship, scrape, scrape, yer ladyship… (that’s old-fashioned British class bitterness coming through that is, in case you were wondering – and it’s only partly tongue-in-cheek).

    There are so many stories about bules who trap young javanese girls into a life of slavery.

    I’ve not heard so many of those stories, but I’ve heard plenty of tales of young Javanese girls trapped into a life of slavery and abuse as domestic servants in Malaysia and the Middle East; I think that would be a more pressing issue than extorting money out of dirty, sleazy old white guys (who’d all go to the Phillipines to buy themselves a wife instead if it cost so much in Indonesia).

    Tim, seems you are a victim of the creditcrunch. I don’t know what to say.
    I thought that british people were all so rich, but it turns out that I was wrong. My sister told me about those council house things that you have, and how you can get paid by your government for doing nothing, so I thought that you were all so rich.

  14. avatar timdog says:
    May 20th, 2008 at 4:21 pm

    AND I DON’T LIVE IN A COUNCIL HOUSE EITHER, DAMMIT (that’s old-fashioned British snobbery coming through that is, in case you were wondering – and it’s only partly tongue-in-cheek) ;-)

  15. avatar MbakAditya says:
    May 20th, 2008 at 4:34 pm

    Oh, I’m really sorry Tim, I didn’t know that there was such a social stigma attached to living in a council house. How about “benefits” or whatever they are called? Could you not make some application on social grounds to get the money for a wife?

  16. avatar timdog says:
    May 20th, 2008 at 4:46 pm

    AND I AIN’T NO DOLE-SCUM CHAV EITHER! (that’s old-fashioned rancorous British fear/hatred for the lowest stratum of society, at it’s most intense and pernicious, strangely enough, in those just marginally higher up the ladder themsleves that is, in case you were wondering – and it’s only partly tongue-in-cheek) ;-)

  17. avatar dewaratugedeanom says:
    May 20th, 2008 at 10:06 pm

    MbakAditya said

    As I recal, the idea is that the money is placed on deposit so that in the event that the marriage fails and your wife tires of eating egg and chips pagi, siang dan malam, that when she returns back to Indonesia, she has some fund so that she can continue her life.

    If this law becomes true I think a lot of bule-Indonesian marriages will fail.

  18. avatar Patrick says:
    May 20th, 2008 at 10:35 pm

    If this law becomes true I think a lot of bule-Indonesian marriages will fail.

    Why will the marriages fail dewaratugedeanom? Are you insinuating that Indonesian women do not marry for the right reasons? Please explain as this definitely falls under the category of usefull information.

  19. avatar dewaratugedeanom says:
    May 20th, 2008 at 10:46 pm

    Patrick

    I think I should make more use of emoticons. ;-)

  20. avatar Lairedion says:
    May 20th, 2008 at 10:56 pm

    MbakAditya said:

    in the event that the marriage fails and your wife tires of eating egg and chips pagi, siang dan malam,

    and therry in her post said:

    Foreign men, expats – forget it. Most of them are fat and balding with burnt red skin

    Bad food, red burnt skin? Is bule synonymous with Anglo-Celtic?

  21. avatar Patrick says:
    May 20th, 2008 at 11:34 pm

    Ok Brits and their Aussie cousins aside, why would a beautiful Indonesian woman want to marry a bule? Lets take money & a chance for a better life etc., out of the equation and see if there are any other compelling reasons?

  22. avatar Rob says:
    May 20th, 2008 at 11:42 pm

    Mbak Aditya…

    Well surely you agree with the prinsip Achmad? surely we can’t allow these impecunious bules to just run in and take our pribumi women without a thankyou?

    Would a card do?

  23. avatar Rob says:
    May 20th, 2008 at 11:45 pm

    Dewa…

    If this law becomes true I think a lot of bule-Indonesian marriages will fail.

    This statement is inclusive of Bule women marrying Kuta Cowboys too, right?

  24. avatar timdog says:
    May 20th, 2008 at 11:49 pm

    Yeah, alright Patrick, or how about, as you are apparently qualified to answer this one, why would a bule, with a certain number of issues of his own, want to marry an Indonesian woman – beautiful or otherwise?

    As you have a nice line in generalisations that seem not to be able to countenance such factors as individual character, circumstance, outlook, or interests, and that seem to function on such charming, all-encompassing concepts as “BULE” and “INDONESIAN WOMAN”, I’m sure you could provide a towering, definitive answer to that one…

  25. avatar Patrick says:
    May 20th, 2008 at 11:59 pm

    I see the the wrestling tag team of Rob & Timdog have shown up and coincidently at the same time again! :> ) I asked a legitimate question and I would like to hear from Indonesian men & women their response.

    Borrowing and slightly altering a few lines from Woody Allen:

    Those that can do
    Those that can’t teach
    and those that can’t teach, teach English in Indonesia

  26. avatar Rob says:
    May 21st, 2008 at 12:00 am

    Patrick…

    Even if we take money and chance for a better life out. Although, it is worth pointing out that some Indonesian women that marry bules already have money and a good life here in Indonesia…

    Is it possible that an Indonesian woman can marry a bule man based on love and not the colour of the skin of the prospective husband?

    My missus did not marry me for money (I might be a bule but I am not here on an expat salary — local wage and local conditions) and we have lived in Jakarta for almost 15 years now (not a bad life when all things are considered)…

    So, my answer is that perhaps Indonesian women marry for love…it is impossible to generalize as there are always exceptions to the rule. I can answer based on empirical research because I have not done the hard yards in terms of doing the necessary survey work to verify my earlier anecdotal response…

    MbakAditya and her expert baiting of Timdog aside, not all bules would be in a position to pay the amount that was being contemplated. It is as simple as that. I could not pay it now were the rule to be in place. It is more than a couple of years salary for me. So, if my relationship was genuine and loving then I and the prospective spouse would have had to be somewhat more creative in getting around the payment. Unless, there was some kind of payment plan where you deposited into a divorce fund each month!

    A pre-marriage deposit means there is less incentive to stay in the marriage. This is particularly so when you know you only have to tough it out for a year and then there is a 500 mill pay day waiting for you!

    Sounds all too complicated for me and I just think marriage is hard enough without adding this to the cart…

  27. avatar Rob says:
    May 21st, 2008 at 12:04 am

    I swear I was not conspiring with timdog…we were just writing at the same time…

    I do not even know who timdog is…once again, I swear :D

  28. avatar Patrick says:
    May 21st, 2008 at 12:06 am

    Rob – that was a good honest answer and I do respect what you say

  29. avatar timdog says:
    May 21st, 2008 at 12:48 am

    I do have to say, I am slightly freaked out by mine and Rob’s apparent twighlight zone-tendency to type at the same time… but I too will stress, there is no connection…

    Patrick, my post might have been a bit tetchy (perhaps it was due to all that British class neurosis that MbakAditya stirred up ;- ) ) but i do genuinely mean it when I say that I find this endless talk of generic “bule” and “Indonesian woman” distasteful.

    You, according to what you have said, are suffering from a failed or failing marriage, and it seems that you have chosen to frame the reasons for that failure in terms of “Indonesian women”. I, despite knowing nothing about you or your wife, would suggest that to do that is a little too convenient, and little too easy. If it was not a “cross-cultural marriage” (offensive term in itself) you wouldn’t have that luxury, would perhaps need to assess the failure as an individual case, free from wider generalisations (unless of course you’re an old-fashioned chauvenist who views “women” of all nationalities as a generic species), and might, as a result, come out less cynical, and a little wiser at the other end…

    Someone like Rob, who apparantly has a successful and happy marriage, has no need to view Mrs Rob as an “Indonesian woman”, and therefore has no need to ask the frankly somewhat ridiculous question “why would an Indonesian woman marry a bule?”

    ***

    As for the misappropriated Woody Allen joke… AHAHAHAHAHA! Hilarious! I laughed until I cried! Never heard that one before!

  30. avatar Patrick says:
    May 21st, 2008 at 1:46 am

    Timdog – It is said that all logical thought is sequential so please try to follow along as I explain my logic to you:

    1. We are commenting on a book entitled “How to Get a Bule Man”. The very title by anyone’s definition is generic so using terms such as Bule or Indonesian are perfectly acceptable in this forum don’t you agree? And if we accept that the title is generic why cannot the questions be posed generically as well?

    2. According to what I have read the book is selling very well throughout Indonesia and if we make an assumption that the majority of buyers have not already targeted a specific bule man for marriage then we can legitimately ask the question what is compelling Indonesian women to buy it? If we accept this as logical thinking than explain to me why my asking the generic question “Why would an Indonesian woman marry a bule?” seem ridiculous by you?

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