Battle of the Islam Movies

Mar 31st, 2008, in News & Issues, by Patung

View the original article here.

53 Comments on “Battle of the Islam Movies”

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Rob Says:
April 1st, 2008 at 11:13 pm
Calling each other names is hardly constructive debate on the topic at hand.

I have not watched either of the films and I am not sure that I will. I personally am more likely to watch Fitna than Ayat-ayat Cinta, but I will let you know.

Fitna would seem to be a film with an agenda and if it is as some have suggested a compilation of events that have occurred combined with a selective number of Suras from the Al-Qu’ran then I would imagine that Muslim scholars could conceivably respond in a manner that points out the problems or where the film misleads without having to resort to violence.

The idea of free speech is not one where there are no boundaries and to suggest that free speech is simply a matter of anything goes is a misrepresentation in itself. Whether Fitna falls into a protected category of free speech is a legal debate. Yet, just because the material offends does not mean that it is speech that must be censored or banned. If it is speech that vilifies a particular individual or group then there are likely to be restrictions on the speech, and rightly so.

It is unfortunate that rational debate is likely to be overshadowed by the emotional one because a rational debate might just lead us down a path that will take us to a place where there is a greater appreciation and understanding of the differences that separate us. Finding this tolerance is the key to making the world in which we live a much happier one.

Violence only begets more violence. As Gandhi once said “an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind!”

Ridicule if you want, but it is our communal hopes and dreams for a better future that will drive us to a more tolerant and peaceful future.
Aluang Anak Bayang Says:
April 1st, 2008 at 11:24 pm
rima’s avatar is cute.
rima Says:
April 2nd, 2008 at 1:55 am
The Volksrant on FPI’s urge to sever diplomatic ties with The Netherlands.

this is the last paragraph (sorry it’s in dutch)
Een woordvoerder van de groep, Soleh Mahmud, riep de regering op de banden met Nederland wegens Wilders’ film Fitna te verbreken. ‘De Nederlandse regering moet hem arresteren. Wilders moet worden gedood, omdat hij de moslims de oorlog heeft verklaard’, aldus Mahmud, die ook zei dat hij Fitna nog niet heeft gezien.

means (more or less): A spokesman of the group, Soleh Mahmud, called the government to sever ties with the Netherlands because of Wilders film Fitna.` the Dutch government must arrest him. Wilders must be killed, because he has declared war with Moslems” says Mahmud who also said that he has not yet seen Fitna.

hehehe.. nonton aja belon kok marah.. :p
Lairedion Says:
April 2nd, 2008 at 2:08 am
rima,

You should also mention that only 40 people showed up to demonstrate. It’s generally well-known that the FPI is nothing but a bunch of thugs too lazy and stupid to get a decent life.

btw What happened to your pic? I agree with Aluang Anak Bayang, it’s cute.
rima Says:
April 2nd, 2008 at 2:12 am
The pic is there when I comment while being logged on. now I’m not.. thanks for saying that tho..

Yeah, I only translated the last part, cos it’s funny.
M.F Says:
April 2nd, 2008 at 4:58 am
` the Dutch government must arrest him. Wilders must be killed, because he has declared war with Moslems” says Mahmud who also said that he has not yet seen Fitna.

This is hilarious, but I am not surprise to see how dumb the FPI members are. I mean when the last thing they do something smart? Everytime they said or do something makes me almost be embarrassed to come from the same country as these morons.
Robert Says:
April 2nd, 2008 at 5:00 am
@Rambutan,

I don’t think Indonesians need to be lectured about free speech and press freedom. They fought hard to gain it and they are doing a pretty good job at maintaining it.

Who are “they”? Are “they” the same people who will be blocking porn related internet sites, and probably YouTube for showing Fitna?
It seems the Indonesian government doesn’t trust the Indonesian people. Apparently the government has a different view on free speech and press freedom.

And what other sites will be blocked next?

“Some observers have warned the government may use its declared war on online pornography as an excuse to take action against other information deemed detrimental to the regime.”

Source: The Jakarta Post
falcon Says:
April 2nd, 2008 at 10:29 am
# Maria (Carissa Putri) a Coptic Christian living next door to Fahri, who inexplicably converts to Islam at the end of the film

If the whole world convert, may be it becomes one happy family?
dewaratugedeanom Says:
April 2nd, 2008 at 12:39 pm
Rambutan said

Wilders is an individual attacking a world religion.

Wilders is a democratically elected politician speaking in the name and on behalf of his constituency. He will be judged by the Dutch voters in the next elections.

Please tell me who should talk in the name of Islam?

Islam has enough imams, ulamas, kiais, ustadz and other so-called scholars. Maybe we could ask the cleric in the video above.
dewaratugedeanom Says:
April 2nd, 2008 at 12:46 pm
Murphy said

I am testing your own principle. If an insult deserves “counterbalance the fact or find proof of the contrary” like you said, then show me proof that you are not an asshole. It’s nothing personal.

Is telling the truth and showing reality an insult? If so then you will be in for some more nasty surprises, boy.
Murphy Says:
April 2nd, 2008 at 1:13 pm
dewaratugedeanom said:

Is telling the truth and showing reality an insult?

Oh, okay then. Thanks. I thought that was an insult to you.
Ihaknt Says:
April 2nd, 2008 at 5:44 pm
When will Indonesians be able to decide for themselves and not always spoonfed what to see, hear, read?
dewaratugedeanom Says:
April 3rd, 2008 at 8:44 pm
Murphy said

Oh, okay then. Thanks. I thought that was an insult to you.

I think you have trouble understanding what an insult is. What follows is an example of an insult:

“Murphy, judging from your style you must be an Anglo bottomfeeder who became a Submitter in order to marry the daughter of some muslimofanatico Indonesian and who now has to prove that he didn’t convert because he was a wussy for her pussy.
Merdeka!”

Don’t worry, it’s nothing personal.
Murphy Says:
April 4th, 2008 at 9:07 am
@dewaratugedeanom

Ah, yes. Good ol’ low-brow garden variety insults. You do sound like Wilders. I guess your parents must be siblings.
dewaratugedeanom Says:
April 4th, 2008 at 10:57 am
Murphy, is your mother still in jail?

In case you didn’t know, this the standard question they use in pesantrens and madrassahs to spice up their debating courses.
Cukurungan Says:
April 5th, 2008 at 1:11 pm
dewaratugedeanom said:

In case you didn’t know,
this the standard question they use in pesantrens and madrassahs to spice up their debating courses.

me :

It is really shocking that to be a professional cowboy Kuta like you also need to attend in the pesantren/madrasah debating course because I think the cowboy kuta don’t need to be good in debating but you should have thick, long and strong tongue because only by having so, you would be able to deliver unforgetable service for your client.

As you big brother again I remind you never forget to wash your mouth regularly because prevention always work better than medications.
dewaratugedeanom Says:
April 5th, 2008 at 2:09 pm
Cukurungan said

…you should have thick, long and strong tongue because only by having so, you would be able to deliver unforgetable service for your client.

Cukurungan, not only my tongue is thick, long and strong. But anyway, thank you for the free advertising.
Sorry, have to go. They are already lining up at my doorstep.
John Says:
April 7th, 2008 at 5:09 am
Murphy,

I don’t know why you have got your knickers in a twist. Have you have recently had your genitals mutilated?

You should stop abusing and insulting people and try to make a constructive point. This is what most people in this forum try to do.
Murphy Says:
April 7th, 2008 at 9:37 am
John,

To answer your direct question, yes, mine was circumcised. Although I don’t quite understand your fascination with my willy. I can introduce you to him (I call him Mr. Lincoln, for obvious reason) if you’re really interested.

Seriously, The discussion with Dewaratugedeanom is a cordial one about what consititutes an insult and the proper way to address one. In summary, he thought an insult should be addressed with “counterbalance the fact or find proof of the contrary”. I thought the only way to answer an insult is by topping it. He was wrong, of course.

It might be a bit too academic for your capacity, John. But trust me, nobody was abused in the process.
dewaratugedeanom Says:
April 7th, 2008 at 2:53 pm
Murphy, I graciously give in. Your debating skills are amazing. You certainly came out primus inter pares in your madrassah, or was it pesantren, debating course.
Oh yes, and don’t forget to visit your mother in jail.
Lairedion Says:
April 7th, 2008 at 3:43 pm
Murphy, I graciously give in. Your debating skills are amazing.

Murphy needs to improve his insult skills as he is still too academic. If he keeps working on that he could be a possible successor of Dragonwall, the one and only who never lost a debate. Where the hell is Dragonwall anyway? I miss him.
Goresan Ngawur » Blog Archive » On Fitna The Movie Says:
April 9th, 2008 at 3:50 pm
[...] read in Indonesia Matters that the leader of Majelis Ulama Indonesia (MUI) encouraged Indonesians to boycott Dutch products [...]
Aus aktuellem AnlaÃŸ…. « Indonesisch-Blog Says:
April 10th, 2008 at 9:56 am
[...] wird, daÃŸ nur noch der Zugang zum Film gesperrt werden solle, nicht die gesamte Website. Zum Thema. Zudem wird in den Kommentaren auf einen Ã¤hnlichen Fall in Pakistan [...]