58 Comments on “Youth Groups & Activists Running Amok”
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tomaculum Says:
March 24th, 2008 at 5:01 pm“…..he will remain in Muslim until his death.”
Because there is no escape for someone from the religion? Someone who is moslem have to be moslem in his life, else ….
Isn’t there already some examples of this?
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dewaratugedeanom Says:
March 24th, 2008 at 5:06 pmCukurungan
…but now the monster was converting to Islam…
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janma Says:
March 26th, 2008 at 10:24 amCuk said,
liberate our aboriginal brother from the white infidels claw and he will remain in Muslim until his death.
I was wondering cuk, aren’t aboriginals and native americans also infidels? Why don’t you just worry about your muslim business and let us infidels worry about ours…. I really don’t need any religious people around me while I’m killing women and children.
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Murphy Says:
March 26th, 2008 at 12:17 pmJanma said:
Murphy, the joke maybe on you”¦.. Aluang may actually have passed through understanding the situation and come out the otherside already, hence the burlesque.
It really depends on what is your pre-conception of Islam, Bu Janma. If the images of Islam in your mind consist of Middle-East violence, Indonesia Matters’ “selected articles”, Abu Bakar Baasyir, and the 1001 nights harem, then, of course, you will not question all Aluang’s insinuations.
But if you follow the life of most Indonesian muslims, their religious experience mostly consists of the peaceful morning or evening sermons, the 5-times daily meditations, the joy of breaking the fast during Ramadhan, the 99.9% monogamous marriages all the way back to their great-great grandfather and yes, celebrate Valentine’s Day.
You know their life resembles nothing like Indonesia Matters articles.
The articles and comments posted in this website are carefully selected to show or (or more precisely, fish) violent, hateful and intolerant minorities from both sides, the muslims and the non-muslims. And instead of addressing the issues (which is more difficult because it involves a novel process called thinking), Aluang took the easy way out: oh, it must be the religion; the barbaric-hateful-violent religion. And with Google’s help it is easy to quote several verses out-of-context to provide entertainment for the masses here.
If you listen to typical sermon in the mosque, Bu Jamna, the preacher would painstakingly tell the history of the verse, explain the grammatical implications of every choice of word, and then elaborate what are the interpretations from different school of thought to that particular verse. And believe me, what was concluded in a typical sermon resembles nothing of Aluang’s way of “understanding”.
His is simply insult; and not even good one.
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Cukurungan Says:
March 27th, 2008 at 8:30 amI was wondering cuk, aren’t aboriginals and native americans also infidels? Why don’t you just worry about your muslim business and let us infidels worry about ours”¦. I really don’t need any religious people around me while I’m killing women and children.
Aboriginal and Native America is not infidels because they are fully comply to something God revealed them that is the nature law and they make a living without destroying the nature balance but the white infidels saw this friendly and armless people as the easy target for satisfying their greedy.
The infidels is the people who betrayed God holy scripture revealed to them, as every body know that Jesus never f**K a woman and kill even an animal but today the people who claim their self as Jesus Followers are sinning all over the world with their free f**k and killing culture and destroying the world natural balance.
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Oigal Says:
March 27th, 2008 at 10:50 amGood on you Chuck always good for a laugh..(remember we are laughing at you not with you)
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janma Says:
March 27th, 2008 at 12:39 pmMurphy, Maybe the ugly sides of Islam need to be talked about in order to preserve the good sides of Islam. Definitely Indonesia Matters is not a site for whitewashing a thing. Someone pointed out in a thread somewhere…. how many people want to read, Man does sholat, gets on with neighbours” or some such thing….
The
most Indonesian muslims, their religious experience mostly consists of the peaceful morning or evening sermons, the 5-times daily meditations, the joy of breaking the fast during Ramadhan, the 99.9% monogamous marriages all the way back to their great-great grandfather and yes, celebrate Valentine’s Day.
muslims
It’s them that need to be talking about all these negative aspects…. to stop their religion being hijacked by these radical elements.Cuk….. I love this…
friendly and armless people
Had me in tears for a moment…..
but as to infidel status, I had no idea that living in harmony with nature was counted as being a ‘believer’…… so if I go tie myself to a tree and eat roots and leaves, I’m no longer an infidel and will go to heaven? Surely you’re making it up? -
janma Says:
March 27th, 2008 at 12:54 pmDo you think Cuk meant they were harmless and it’s just a typo? but I have these visions of torsos running around armless…. lucky they were Muslims just by virtue of being nature lovers and victims, cause they would have had a terrible time doing sholat without arms…
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March 27th, 2008 at 1:05 pmMurphy said
If you listen to typical sermon in the mosque, Bu Jamna, the preacher would painstakingly tell the history of the verse, explain the grammatical implications of every choice of word, and then elaborate what are the interpretations from different school of thought to that particular verse.
so that the umat keeps standing in awe for the koranic literacy of the preacher and – what is of paramount importance – doesn’t start thinking for themselves about the essence and purpose of it.
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djoko Says:
March 27th, 2008 at 1:12 pm@ Janma and Murphy
Definitely Indonesia Matters is not a site for whitewashing a thing. Someone pointed out in a thread somewhere”¦. how many people want to read, Man does sholat, gets on with neighbours” or some such thing”¦.
I was the one that said that Janma, and actually I was half being sarcastic. I’m pretty much in agreement with Murphy in the sense that most Muslims (even religious ones), just get on with life. No rioting, no bombing, no beatings or anything. Some even break out of normality and do overtly nice things. I read a few days ago about santri from a pesantren in Jepara making a mobile library they take around to people in their district, trying to promote a culture of reading. Other Islamic organisations and even parties also often hold free clinics and cheap markets for the poor and low-income earners. This is the kind of thing which doesn’t make it into Indonesia matters.
But as I think someone (it was dewa I’m fair sure) pointed out in another thread, if you have a look at the ‘about’ section of Indonesia Matters, you’ll find thats precisely the kind of story which not only does not make it into IM, but won’t. Its not part of the site’s vision or objective. From the ‘about’ section:
Good news is often no news, this site focuses on, for example, stories of extremist Muslims and bigoted people – however not all Indonesians are like that. This site makes no attempt to tell the whole story of Indonesia, just several parts of it.
Blogs, despite people’s best wishes, are by no means about balance Murphy, they’re about presenting a particular point of view. In IM’s case, that point of view is that there are extremist Muslims out there.
As for comments on articles which conclude (or rather promote the view) that its not just some Muslims who are extremist, but rather that all Muslims are and the religion of Islam itself is inherently evil, well patung doesn’t have a lot of control over that. Excessive moderation of comments wouldn’t be good for business either as one of the stated aims of the site is to be profitable.
As much as I agree with the points of view you put out here, you really can’t go blaming patung or the site for the kind of stories published. The only thing you can do is post your own say and move on. Or better yet make your own blog to focus on other parts of the ‘story of Indonesia’. Ultimately its up to individual whether they take side with your view or another.
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Lairedion Says:
March 27th, 2008 at 1:14 pmJanma,
Probably Cuk meant without weapons, not armed….
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riyoz Says:
March 27th, 2008 at 1:17 pm“so that the umat keeps standing in awe for the koranic literacy of the preacher and – what is of paramount importance – doesn’t start thinking for themselves about the essence and purpose of it.”
Not quite….coz’ the Prophet SAW himself encourages muslims to seek for and obtain as knowledge as possible in Islamic teachings aswell as scientific knowledge….”Seek knowledge from the cradle to the grave”….the preachers are regarded mainly as triggers, gates or stepping stones we don’t ‘worship’ them…their part is only to jump-start the umats to seek more knowledge themselves….and that’s why we have halaqahs or ‘pengajians’, where muslims with more knowledge share his/her knowledge with other muslims and to invite those other muslims to seek even more knowledge themselves…..the Quran is open to all muslims to read and study
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janma Says:
March 27th, 2008 at 1:21 pmLairedion said,
Probably Cuk meant without weapons, not armed”¦.
LOL…. I know….. just having fun.
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March 27th, 2008 at 1:44 pm@djoko
But as I think someone (it was dewa I’m fair sure) pointed out in another thread, if you have a look at the ‘about’ section of Indonesia Matters, you’ll find thats precisely the kind of story which not only does not make it into IM, but won’t. Its not part of the site’s vision or objective. From the ‘about’ section:
Good news is often no news, this site focuses on, for example, stories of extremist Muslims and bigoted people – however not all Indonesians are like that. This site makes no attempt to tell the whole story of Indonesia, just several parts of it.
It may come as a surprise to you but actually I have several Muslim friends even from outside Indonesia. They know that, although they don’t share my view, I am not attacking Muslims but after reading the Qur’an and hadith became critical of the theological and historical aspects of Islam and its consequences. I understand people need paradigms to live by but this doesn’t mean I have to stay silent.
A French saying is du choc des idées jaillit la lumière meaning ‘light springs from the collision of ideas’. -
March 27th, 2008 at 2:07 pm@ dewa
I understand people need paradigms to live by but this doesn’t mean I have to stay silent.
By the same token, people who have their life paradigms attacked are not likely to stay silent either heheh.
A French saying is du choc des idées jaillit la lumière meaning ‘light springs from the collision of ideas’.
That’s where we need to be.
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March 27th, 2008 at 4:06 pmdjoko said:
As for comments on articles which conclude (or rather promote the view) that its not just some Muslims who are extremist, but rather that all Muslims are and the religion of Islam itself is inherently evil, well patung doesn’t have a lot of control over that. Excessive moderation of comments wouldn’t be good for business either as one of the stated aims of the site is to be profitable.
Can’t argue that, djoko.
It came to me that the sober posters are actually the free riders. They normally don’t post much, do they? They just enjoy this fantastic site from the hits generated by the mud slingers. Such is life.
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March 27th, 2008 at 4:12 pmHad me in tears for a moment”¦..
but as to infidel status, I had no idea that living in harmony with nature was counted as being a ‘believer’”¦”¦ so if I go tie myself to a tree and eat roots and leaves, I’m no longer an infidel and will go to heaven? Surely you’re making it up?Hi hi hi ..sorry Bu Janma if my high quality english have made you so confuse, God say that every people shall be judge based on a law in which reveleaded upon each of them( Bible, Quran and Veda or anything) , in the aborigal and red indian case what is God revealed to them..Quran? no…Talmud? no…Injil? no…God give them only the natural law so that as long as they do not destroy the nature balance they shall not be punished for anything because that is all they have and not like you.
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March 27th, 2008 at 8:43 pmGod give them only the natural law so that as long as they do not destroy the nature balance they shall not be punished for anything because that is all they have and not like you.
Yeah, God revealed the Law of Nature to the Aborigines and Native Americans so they shall not be punished. That’s why they were overrun and almost destroyed by white Christians in the name of God. Up until today they feel very blessed for not being punished by God.
Interesting theory you’re cooking up here, brother Cuk.
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Aluang Anak Bayang Says:
March 27th, 2008 at 9:05 pm@ Murphy
Another Bule convert having a beef with me. I have come across many of your type. So let’s get this straight. Be honest (if you are capable).
As I know, Bules are ONLY attracted to Islam because of halal sex with little children. Just because they read about or seen elderly Arab men shagging little girls in the Indian Sub-Continent, they queued up in drove to Indonesian; unaware that Indonesian Islam is largely influenced by Kejawen. This is not the Middle-East or the Indian Sub Continent. Little children are protected from sexual predators like your kind. You will be gutted like a fish if you touched any of our Indonesian kids.
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March 28th, 2008 at 12:10 pmAluang boy,
You seem very bright for your kind. Have you considered a career with Eukanuba?
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shorty Says:
March 29th, 2008 at 7:52 pmcuk, dewa, riyoz, aluang and others……..can we get past the philosophical/religious/point scoring crap?
i’m interested to know your responses to……………
1. …….The Sport of Sweeping in Solo…..is this action and the result justifiable? is vigilante action which results in death right?
2………The Lure of Batam………is the destruction of property an acceptable response to a delayed/cancelled flight – particularly when the property is owned by someone not involved in the problem?
no diatribes, just simple yes/no.
for the record my answers are.
1. no, no
2. no -
March 29th, 2008 at 8:32 pmMurphy Says:
March 28th, 2008 at 12:10 pm
Aluang boy,You seem very bright for your kind. Have you considered a career with Eukanuba
Murphy Pedo,
As a matter of fact, I am considering working for Pedo-Watch.
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March 29th, 2008 at 9:49 pmaluang…….when you’ve finished fighting murphy, what’s your response to my questions?
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March 29th, 2008 at 10:11 pmshorty,
What’s the point of oversimplifying your comments by just answering yes or no? This is not the purpose of blogging and discussing in the public domain.
Most bloggers want to learn and exchange ideas and thoughts and some of them use a fair dose of sarcasm, twisted humor or some strong statements now and then to fire up a discussion. I consider myself one of those. There are bloggers just pulling legs and throwing out baits and there are those naive bloggers biting those baits over and over again. Probably there are more types.
All this together make blogs an interesting place to be and it would be boring if we are just dropping comments with yes or no, agree or disagree.
FYI my answers are the same as yours… not based on religion or philosophy but on common sense.
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Riyoz Says:
March 30th, 2008 at 12:13 amoow..sorry, shorty….well personally i don’t condone such unecessary violence like what happened in solo (though I’m not quite sure who started the fight and you know how the media twisted and turned news stories now and then), it was unecessary and perhaps things could turn-out differently if they leave emotion out of it….:)…the same goes to the incident in sulawesi….
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March 30th, 2008 at 4:28 pmLairedion/riyoz…. appreciate & take your points. I too like the the free flow of thought and opinion a blog provides….red herrings, sarcasm, parody bring it on. I also like to read other bloggers views on the chosen subject.
It was an attempt to bring discussion back to the subject. After all, if we didn’t have an issue, patung could just post…’go for it!’
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March 31st, 2008 at 2:09 pm1. “¦”¦.The Sport of Sweeping in Solo”¦..is this action and the result justifiable? is vigilante action which results in death right?
Yes
This sweeping is justified because there was already too many youth group got drunk and involved criminal action while they still drunk.
If they want to get drunk OK..that is their personnel matter but they shall do it in their home or available Bar/ Cafe ..but if they do it in the street or other public area I will kill them2″¦”¦”¦The Lure of Batam”¦”¦”¦is the destruction of property an acceptable response to a delayed/cancelled flight – particularly when the property is owned by someone not involved in the problem?
No
Perpetrators can be sue according to applicable law
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March 31st, 2008 at 7:53 pmcuk,
if drunken youths are involved in criminal activity or unacceptable social behaviour surely this is a matter for the police/law.
i don’t quite understand your logic – smash a few windows and it’s a matter for the law.
get drunk and it’s ok to sweep – even someone gets killed – last i heard murder is illegal.
how about my earlier question – what if the drunks were muslim (yes it does happen) and the travellers hindu/christian?
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