Youth Groups & Activists Running Amok
March 19th, 2008, in News, by PatungBoisterous youth groups in search of alcohol and the attractions of Batam.
There is a quote in the film “Ayat Ayat Cinta“,
Sabar dan ikhlas. Itu adalah Islam! (Patience and sincerity. That’s what Islam is!)
There may be plenty of people who manage to live up to this, as far as is humanly possible, these people don’t appear to be among them:
The Sport of Sweeping in Solo
In Solo/Surakarta on the night of 17th March a group of what are variously described in the media as “thugs”, or “youths”, or less harshly “local residents”, were having a party on the street, and some of them were drunk, or were in the process of getting drunk.
From a neighbouring district hundreds of men from the Muslimin mosque, called by the media either “activists” or “youths”, or “members of the Laskar Islam Solo”, arrived on foot and attempted to break up the party. The partygoers resisted but were outnumbered and in an ensuing brawl two of them suffered serious head injuries, in one case fatal.
Police eventually detained over 100 men, it seems all from the “mosque activists” team, after an hours’ long stand-off at a mosque, where the men had to be negotiated with before they would surrender, and in the end some of them put up a fight anyway. [1]
The next day Khalid Syaifullah, the Executive Director of the “Front Perlawanan Penculikan” (Anti-Kidnapping Front, see “Terrorist Kidnapping“), and representing the “Laskar Islam Solo”, said the mosque activists were tricked by the police into surrendering, and the police were now unjustly holding the men as suspects. He also said the men had since been beaten by police while in custody. [2]
The Lure of Batam
And on the 18th members of the South Sulawesi branch of the “Pergerakan Mahasiswa Islam Indonesia” (PMII), Islamic University Students Movement, had gathered expectantly at the PMII headquarters in Jakarta waiting to be transported to a PMII conference on the island of Batam.
Possibly because the PMII had booked Adam Air, or not, some transport problem prevented the students from leaving for Batam, and crestfallen, the boys expressed their disappointment on the furniture and windows of the building, smashing them.
Nahdlatul Ulama (NU) leader Syaiful Bahri Ansori said although the PMII was nothing to do with the NU organisationally, people knew that PMII members tended to be NU members as well and he was worried and shocked at their behaviour. He also hoped the PMII organisers would improve their act. [3]
Tags: Adam Air, Batam, Boys, Islam, Islamic, Jakarta, Laskar, Muslim, Nahdlatul Ulama, NU, Police, Sin, Solo, South Sulawesi, Students, Surakarta, Youth
59 Comments on “Youth Groups & Activists Running Amok”
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janma Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 10:28 amRunning Amok is a time honored Indonesian tradition…… it should be encouraged.
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Riyoz Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 8:49 pmCkckckck…you know what I think ?…I think this site (or a ‘hate site’, perhaps ?) ought to have a different title and I think “Islamic Matters”, or better yet…”Wretched Islamic Monsters” should fits nicely….
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Andrew Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 8:55 pmA bitter pill to swallow, eh?
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March 19th, 2008 at 9:11 pm“A bitter pill to swallow, eh?”
If it’s medicine it’s got to be swallowed anyway, right ?….:D and as always it’s much easier and juicier to just talk about the bad deeds rather than the good ones……I just can’t help wondering, where do all this hate came from ? is it post US’s inside job 911 or US-Indo perhaps Aus intel created Bali Bombings ?….
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fanaticoislamistasapestan Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 9:50 pm@riyoz:
>> is it post US’s inside job 911 or US-Indo perhaps Aus intel created Bali Bombings ?
I’ve had enough of this type of comments. It reminds me of some of my university colleagues (in Bandung Institute of Technology *), the so-called “moderate moslems”, who commented “this must be the jews” when we watched the Bali bombing (I) news on television. How insensitive and brainwashed they are (too much friday sermons filled with hate speechs toward anything other than islam, particularly jews?).
Now that it’s been proven, that it was terrorists with islamic background who did that, what would they (my “friends”) say?
I’ve always told myself not to bash any religion, including islam (although it’s always tempting to do so, considering how f*cked up some “religious people” are), that people are basically nice, etc., etc. But these people like riyoz (and possibly cukurungan), consumed by their hate, makes it less “motivating” for some of us to keep thinking and acting that way.
This guy riyoz seems to be so drowned in this middle-east conflict(s). His comments are always so out-of-topic; basically he only babled about jews this, christian that, and some random statistics. I wonder sometimes if he has ever done anything real to help those people suffering from that stupid conflict.
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*) Yes, ITB stinks, full of islamic fanatics, intolerant, narrow-minded. It’s still fresh in my mind, the posters put all over the campus by some activists of Gamais (Gabungan Mahasiswa Islam) telling their fellow moslems not to say “merry christmas” to the christians. ITB, what hopes does it have? Aren’t they supposed to be progressive, smart, tolerant, open-minded, and all those good stuffs, that would allow them to build good relationships with people of other nations and make the best out of this new world?- Balinese, agnostic -
Fanatico Islamistas Apestan — Islamic Fanatics Stink
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March 19th, 2008 at 11:45 pmis it post US’s inside job 911 or US-Indo perhaps Aus intel created Bali Bombings ?
I’ve had enough of this type of comments. It reminds me of some of my university colleagues (in Bandung Institute of Technology *), the so-called “moderate moslemsâ€, who commented “this must be the jews†when we watched the Bali bombing (I) news on television. How insensitive and brainwashed they are (too much friday sermons filled with hate speechs toward anything other than islam, particularly jews?).
Jews ? nah, it’s not that simple.
Now that it’s been proven, that it was terrorists with islamic background who did that, what would they (my “friendsâ€) say?
Proven ? yeah, right….some naive and gullible villagers with their pipe bombs ?….sorry for my pesimism…but after all that I’ve learned about what might happened to the Twin Towers on 911 (you should see for yourself at http://www.911truth.org, it’s quite scientific), I’ve a much clearer view on all other ‘terrorism’ cases that popped-up right after 911, bali bombings included….this doesn’t mean that I don’t felt sorry for the victims, no, far from that….heck, we are all victims here, man….victims of that sick power play games played by those sick imperialists power elites with their minnions and lackeys….I have a simple rule for all this, just find out who really benefits the most from those ‘terrorism’ cases, and you’ll find you perpetrator.
I’ve always told myself not to bash any religion, including islam (although it’s always tempting to do so, considering how f*cked up some “religious people†are), that people are basically nice, etc., etc. But these people like riyoz (and possibly cukurungan), consumed by their hate, makes it less “motivating†for some of us to keep thinking and acting that way.
Hate ? ckckck….I’m not using any slander and harsh remarks toward any ethnic groups in my postings, where’s the hate, man ? or do you consider posting historical facts on certain events is another form of “hatred” ?
This guy riyoz seems to be so drowned in this middle-east conflict(s). His comments are always so out-of-topic; basically he only babled about jews this, christian that, and some random statistics. I wonder sometimes if he has ever done anything real to help those people suffering from that stupid conflict.
Well, you don’t really know do you ? but what I can say is this….it’s never enough !! how, about you ?——
*) Yes, ITB stinks, full of islamic fanatics, intolerant, narrow-minded. It’s still fresh in my mind, the posters put all over the campus by some activists of Gamais (Gabungan Mahasiswa Islam) telling their fellow moslems not to say “merry christmas†to the christians. ITB, what hopes does it have? Aren’t they supposed to be progressive, smart, tolerant, open-minded, and all those good stuffs, that would allow them to build good relationships with people of other nations and make the best out of this new world?
Yes ITB really stinks, alright…it’s becoming more, and more money oriented.
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djoko Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 12:07 pm@ Riyoz
Not just with regards to Islam, but as with anything, the mundane is just not very interesting. Don’t hold your breath waiting for an article on “Man performs solat, does not want to kill all infidels” any time soon.
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Murphy Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 1:56 pm@ djoko
Of course not. But an enlightened website will try to find balance from the media bias, and not just strengthening the stereotypes so it can have cyberspace equivalent of the Fight Club.
I can, for example, setup a website called “America Matters” and then meticulously publish news only about American’s Jesus’ miracle healing industry, bible-thumping born-again-Christians, and the polygamous Mormons, and of course allow repeated discussion about how GWB is sanctioned by his Christian God to attack Iraq. I will let everybody believes that those news snippets represent problem with Christianity today.
I’m sure very soon I will attract a couple of full time Riyozs or Djokos to answer the hundreds of Aluangs or Dragonwalls breeding in the site.
And for what, sir? So we can lower ourselves to the level of the bigots out there? (faithfreedom.org anyone? How about sabili@yahoogroups?).
I join this website, interested in some lively discussions on social and political issues. Little I know that those are just side dishes to what the main course is all about. While I enjoyed the side dishes (and the amazingly user friendly setting and layout), the main course is simply unpalatable.
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dewaratugedeanom Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 5:08 pmAs to prevent unexpected surprises or disappointments people should at least inform themselves on the About of a forum before joining.
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March 21st, 2008 at 4:42 am“Not just with regards to Islam, but as with anything, the mundane is just not very interesting. Don’t hold your breath waiting for an article on “Man performs solat, does not want to kill all infidels†any time soon.”
that ‘bad’, huh ?…hahaha
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Cukurungan Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 1:35 pmfanaticoislamistasapestan said:
But these people like riyoz (and possibly cukurungan), consumed by their hate, makes it less “motivating” for some of us to keep thinking and acting that way.
Me :
Jesus taught me to love anyone include to the animals so I have no reason to hate anyone.
My posting is mostly just matching post to other post and it is not a stand alone post. So before you make comments on my post better trace back its predecessor posting.And you don’t need to worry about my post because according many commentator here mostly my post is stupid , irrational, kampungan and it is only made from “english pas-2an”….so let ridicule me and have fun or just neglect it.
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Deng Xiao Phing Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 8:17 pm*) Yes, ITB stinks, full of islamic fanatics, intolerant, narrow-minded. It’s still fresh in my mind, the posters put all over the campus by some activists of Gamais (Gabungan Mahasiswa Islam) telling their fellow moslems not to say “merry christmas†to the christians. ITB, what hopes does it have?
Yes, it is true - no hopes until SBY don’t want to put his two lovely sons into ITB but in NTU (Nanyang Technology Univ of Singapore which is under Nanyang = South Chinese clan association funding). ITB = Institut Terorist Breeding, most of all our top government officers sent their children to overseas universities, why should we sent our children to ITB for paying it’s expensive tuition fee & non international accredited ITB standard ? afterall we should follow our president’s choice for his lovely sons
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Riyoz Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 8:41 pm“Yes, it is true - no hopes until SBY don’t want to put his two lovely sons into ITB but in NTU (Nanyang Technology Univ of Singapore which is under Nanyang = South Chinese clan association funding). ITB = Institut Terorist Breeding, most of all our top government officers sent their children to overseas universities, why should we sent our children to ITB for paying it’s expensive tuition fee & non international accredited ITB standard ? afterall we should follow our president’s choice for his lovely sons”
ckckck…”Institut Terrorist Breeding” ?…plleeeease :)…..so in this logic those who cannot sent their kids to study overseas…that is the mostly not so fortunate and rich people of this country are….”terrorists” ?….am I right ?…
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Shorty Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 9:15 pm……….an interpretation of religion which censures drunkeness, yet allows assault and murder/manslaughter of the trangressors, without the due process of law
……….your flight’s cancelled, so you trash other peoples property.
they insult and demean me and the overwhelming majority of indonesians.
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John Orford Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 9:55 pmsounds like a usual patrick’s day to me!
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timdog Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 11:10 pmVery well said Murphy…
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Aluang Anak Bayang Says:
March 22nd, 2008 at 1:24 am@ Murphys (or Murphies)
I’m sure very soon I will attract a couple of full time Riyozs or Djokos to answer the hundreds of Aluangs or Dragonwalls breeding in the site.
Please elaborate more. You are putting my name next to left and right wingers cowards hiding behind pseudonyms. Was that meant to insult?
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March 22nd, 2008 at 9:01 am…sounds like a usual patrick’s day to me!…..
Bloody paddies are everywhere. I didn’t realise that solo and batam were home to the lost tribes of Ireland!
At least they got the date right in solo……….I’m fascinated - was it bintang hijau?
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March 22nd, 2008 at 12:10 pmMurphy said
And for what, sir? So we can lower ourselves to the level of the bigots out there? (faithfreedom.org anyone?
There’s a lot of fear going round because of this faithfreedom.org, isn’t it?
Could it be because most of it is written by apostates who finally woke up and realized that all their lives they had been brainwashed and indoctrinated by clerical mind-snatchers, based on revelations concocted by a delusional maniac who turned into a murderous rapist warlord? -
March 22nd, 2008 at 5:07 pmckckck…â€Institut Terrorist Breeding†?…plleeeease :)…..so in this logic those who cannot sent their kids to study overseas…that is the mostly not so fortunate and rich people of this country are….â€terrorists†?….am I right ?…
doesn’t mean to insult the less fortunate, but a sarcastic expression about ‘tut wuri handayani’ lan ‘ mikul nduwur nembe mendhem njero ‘, menawi sampeyan tiang njawi (english i pun = pribumi) lan kulo tiang CINO, nanging kulo saghet krama inggil nanging sampeyan mboten ngertos paribasanipun sampeyan dhewe …. ckckckck ….
pribumi jan kebangeten temenan.Indon should learn to Singapore, they annually publish the marriage/divorce statistic comparison among races & religions. Thus to understand the each race (malay 20%, indian 15%, others 10% & majority chinese 55%) family problems.
Guess what ? only muslim with the most orthodox daily life rules (sembayang 5 times a day, wearing jilbab, fasting, etc …) which have the most terrible marriage live, in Singapore from year to year the Malay muslim hv increasingly problematic marriage problem, divorce rate at the highest level compare to the Indian Hindu & the chinese buddhist … well amitabha …. kulo curious to know what if Indon publish the similar statistics ? … well the numbers will be manipulated for ‘asal bapak senang’ anyway ? who cares ? …. no wonder the muslim parent unable to teach their children behave in this beautiful life …. what a shame ! -
March 22nd, 2008 at 6:21 pmcan we drop the rambling philosophical/religious crap and get back to the starting point?
1. in solo some people were having a street party where they got pissed. another group which objected to this behaviour attacked them resulting in the manslaughter/murder of one of the original group.
2. in jakarta a group hoping to fly to batam trashed/vandalised property because their flight was cancelled.
defending/supporting/justifying the responses is haram.
since when is murder an appropriate response to drunkeness?
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March 22nd, 2008 at 9:31 pm@ Deng Xiao Phing
Halah panjenengan niku ngawur! Meniko sanes kromo hinggil, kulo ugi saghed moco lan nulis aksoro Cinten. Ngatos-atos.. kulo meniko tiang Jawi, tiang Jawi meniko lanthip lan trengginas lho!
Menawi Cinten meniko malah rakus sanget kados “den bagus”
Another ‘Lao Fu Tze’ aka Dragonwall glorifying Singaporea. Tell us to be Asian I would accept that, but not Chinese, please.
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March 22nd, 2008 at 10:15 pm“doesn’t mean to insult the less fortunate, but a sarcastic expression about ‘tut wuri handayani’ lan ‘ mikul nduwur nembe mendhem njero ‘, menawi sampeyan tiang njawi (english i pun = pribumi) lan kulo tiang CINO, nanging kulo saghet krama inggil nanging sampeyan mboten ngertos paribasanipun sampeyan dhewe …. ckckckck ….
pribumi jan kebangeten temenan.Guess what ? only muslim with the most orthodox daily life rules (sembayang 5 times a day, wearing jilbab, fasting, etc …) which have the most terrible marriage live, in Singapore from year to year the Malay muslim hv increasingly problematic marriage problem, divorce rate at the highest level compare to the Indian Hindu & the chinese buddhist … well amitabha …. kulo curious to know what if Indon publish the similar statistics ? … well the numbers will be manipulated for ‘asal bapak senang’ anyway ? who cares ? …. no wonder the muslim parent unable to teach their children behave in this beautiful life …. what a shame”
oops javanese ? how in the heck do you know that i’m javanese ?…..”pribumi” jan kebangeten temenan ?….not insulting ? well’ sir I think you have done enough already…:D…”only” muslims with the ‘most’ orthodox daily life have the most ‘terrible’ marriage problems ? does this mean that they always come home late at night all drunk and then beat-up their wives ? Malay muslim ? what about the ‘other’ muslims ? arab, indian, and chinese perhaps, i’m sure you have all their numbers aswell, why stuck only on ‘malay’ muslims ? and do you happen to have their economic status aswell ? …. “no wonder the muslim parent unable to teach their children behave in this beautiful life …. what a shame” ckckckck…yet another one….
well, sir….I don’t know what your religious and ethnical background is, but apparently you seems to enjoy spewing-out insults….and has ‘certain’ contempt for ‘malay’ (muslims or just ‘malay’ ?)
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March 22nd, 2008 at 11:33 pmIndon should learn to Singapore, they annually publish the marriage/divorce statistic comparison among races & religions. Thus to understand the each race (malay 20%, indian 15%, others 10% & majority chinese 55%) family problems.
Mas raden Deng Xiao Phing,
I give you a chance to withdraw your post otherwise you are again prove that you are just “Katak didalam Tempurung” here we go check divorce rate from the neutral source:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/peo_div_rat-people-divorce-rate
If you use little bit your brain by analyzing those statistic data, it was clear that the divorce rate does not dependent of faith or religion but rather the economical dependency of the person involved in the marriage.
And for sure The Indonesia divorce rate is much lower than Singapore Divorce Rate. -
March 22nd, 2008 at 11:47 pm…. no wonder the muslim parent unable to teach their children behave in this beautiful life …. what a shame !
let’s get down to the root cause of problem, why Indon radical muslim youth are uncontrollable ? as if the parent have zero control over their behaviour ?
Singapore/Malaysia/Brunei are not a good example because every Malay born child must be muslim by default law & syairah. Let’s see Indonesia, our beautiful country hv lots of freedom, you can see quite a number of Malay tiang Jawi practising Kristen Jawi & Kejawen and the population are not really small although is getting smaller. Did u ever hear them run amok since 1945? like the minority Muslim Mindanao is dare to run amok in the Catholic majority of the Phllipines?
Why the minds are corrupted easily ? what is the racun ? -
March 23rd, 2008 at 12:51 amlet’s get down to the root cause of problem, why Indon radical muslim youth are uncontrollable ? as if the parent have zero control over their behaviour ?
hmm…any numbers on this aswell ?….
Singapore/Malaysia/Brunei are not a good example because every Malay born child must be muslim by default law & syairah ?
or because muslims who live there are much ‘nicer’ than we are here ? hmm…if both parents are muslim is it not natural that their new borns are considered muslims aswell ? or do you prefer to label them ‘neutral’ at birth ?
Let’s see Indonesia, our beautiful country have lots of freedom, you can see quite a number of Malay tiang Jawi practising Kristen Jawi & Kejawen and the population are not really small although is getting smaller. Did you ever hear them run amok since 1945? Like the minority Muslim Mindanao is dare to run amok in the Catholic majority of the Phllipines?
Because they are not being oppressed? Getting smaller?
A bit o’ history on moro struggle:
Ethnic Identity and Popular Sovereignty
Notes on the Moro Struggle in the Philippines
E. San Juan, Jr
Philippines Cultural Studies Center, USAhttp://etn.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/6/3/391
Why the minds are corrupted easily? What is the racun?
Various problems? Perhaps economics? Or simply misbehavin’.
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March 23rd, 2008 at 7:00 pmsingapore, malaysia, brunei, moro in the philippines……….
so what!! stop wanking!!
how the hell can any right minded person not CONDEMN the vigilante actions in solo. you get drunk - i kill you?? indefensible. my plane is late/cancelled so i destroy/damage someone else’s property - sama.
for those defending/justifying (well attempting) these actions let me put these imagined scenarios…..
a group of non muslims are pissed off with the early morning call to prayers, the get together, storm the mosque and in the resulting melee someone is killed…..
a group of balinese hindus are returning 4 nyepi on garuda. the flight is delayed/cancelled. they vent their anger and trash offices at sukarno hatta airport…………
what now is your reaction?
ri exists for all indonesians.
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March 24th, 2008 at 12:13 pm@Aluang
Please elaborate more. You are putting my name next to left and right wingers cowards hiding behind pseudonyms. Was that meant to insult?
You are right. My apology. I should put you somewhere else: failed cartoon character.
A good jihadist caricature does provide exaggeration in few precise spots (google indonebia for example) to make the insults felt kicking like a cobekful of good sambal. It hit just the right spots, and set them on fire.
You, on the other hand, can’t be bothered to think. You just hit the religion, wholesale. That’s an easy way out. Insult first, question later. Don’t bother to understand the situation or to find that troubled spots worth insulting. That, my friend, in terms of quality insult, is anything but.
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Janma Says:
March 24th, 2008 at 12:58 pmYou, on the other hand, can’t be bothered to think. You just hit the religion, wholesale. That’s an easy way out. Insult first, question later. Don’t bother to understand the situation or to find that troubled spots worth insulting. That, my friend, in terms of quality insult, is anything but.
Murphy, the joke maybe on you….. Aluang may actually have passed through understanding the situation and come out the otherside already, hence the burlesque.
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March 24th, 2008 at 4:36 pmThere’s a lot of fear going round because of this faithfreedom.org, isn’t it?
Yes, it was part of our history when Bli Dewaratugedeanom was on the faith freedom side, at that time he was a dangerous monster to Islam because he was able to ridicule Muslim and Islamic teaching and there were so many Sheikh, Mullah and Ustadz were leaving Islam (katanya-2) but now the monster was converting to Islam and Hopefully someday he would assume responsibity to take lead on the Australia Front Line to liberate our aboriginal brother from the white infidels claw and he will remain in Muslim until his death.
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tomaculum Says:
March 24th, 2008 at 5:01 pm“…..he will remain in Muslim until his death.”
Because there is no escape for someone from the religion? Someone who is moslem have to be moslem in his life, else ….
Isn’t there already some examples of this? -
March 24th, 2008 at 5:06 pmCukurungan
…but now the monster was converting to Islam…
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janma Says:
March 26th, 2008 at 10:24 amCuk said,
liberate our aboriginal brother from the white infidels claw and he will remain in Muslim until his death.
I was wondering cuk, aren’t aboriginals and native americans also infidels? Why don’t you just worry about your muslim business and let us infidels worry about ours…. I really don’t need any religious people around me while I’m killing women and children.
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March 26th, 2008 at 12:17 pmJanma said:
Murphy, the joke maybe on you….. Aluang may actually have passed through understanding the situation and come out the otherside already, hence the burlesque.
It really depends on what is your pre-conception of Islam, Bu Janma. If the images of Islam in your mind consist of Middle-East violence, Indonesia Matters’ “selected articles”, Abu Bakar Baasyir, and the 1001 nights harem, then, of course, you will not question all Aluang’s insinuations.
But if you follow the life of most Indonesian muslims, their religious experience mostly consists of the peaceful morning or evening sermons, the 5-times daily meditations, the joy of breaking the fast during Ramadhan, the 99.9% monogamous marriages all the way back to their great-great grandfather and yes, celebrate Valentine’s Day.
You know their life resembles nothing like Indonesia Matters articles.
The articles and comments posted in this website are carefully selected to show or (or more precisely, fish) violent, hateful and intolerant minorities from both sides, the muslims and the non-muslims. And instead of addressing the issues (which is more difficult because it involves a novel process called thinking), Aluang took the easy way out: oh, it must be the religion; the barbaric-hateful-violent religion. And with Google’s help it is easy to quote several verses out-of-context to provide entertainment for the masses here.
If you listen to typical sermon in the mosque, Bu Jamna, the preacher would painstakingly tell the history of the verse, explain the grammatical implications of every choice of word, and then elaborate what are the interpretations from different school of thought to that particular verse. And believe me, what was concluded in a typical sermon resembles nothing of Aluang’s way of “understanding”.
His is simply insult; and not even good one.
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March 26th, 2008 at 5:37 pmGood point, Mr. Murphy….:), but isn’t that the precise aim of this site ? to fish/provoke hatred on both sides ? I wonder…que bono, eh ?
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March 27th, 2008 at 8:30 amI was wondering cuk, aren’t aboriginals and native americans also infidels? Why don’t you just worry about your muslim business and let us infidels worry about ours…. I really don’t need any religious people around me while I’m killing women and children.
Aboriginal and Native America is not infidels because they are fully comply to something God revealed them that is the nature law and they make a living without destroying the nature balance but the white infidels saw this friendly and armless people as the easy target for satisfying their greedy.
The infidels is the people who betrayed God holy scripture revealed to them, as every body know that Jesus never f**K a woman and kill even an animal but today the people who claim their self as Jesus Followers are sinning all over the world with their free f**k and killing culture and destroying the world natural balance.
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Oigal Says:
March 27th, 2008 at 10:50 amGood on you Chuck always good for a laugh..(remember we are laughing at you not with you)
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janma Says:
March 27th, 2008 at 12:39 pmMurphy, Maybe the ugly sides of Islam need to be talked about in order to preserve the good sides of Islam. Definitely Indonesia Matters is not a site for whitewashing a thing. Someone pointed out in a thread somewhere…. how many people want to read, Man does sholat, gets on with neighbours” or some such thing….
The
most Indonesian muslims, their religious experience mostly consists of the peaceful morning or evening sermons, the 5-times daily meditations, the joy of breaking the fast during Ramadhan, the 99.9% monogamous marriages all the way back to their great-great grandfather and yes, celebrate Valentine’s Day.
muslims
It’s them that need to be talking about all these negative aspects…. to stop their religion being hijacked by these radical elements.Cuk….. I love this…
friendly and armless people
Had me in tears for a moment…..
but as to infidel status, I had no idea that living in harmony with nature was counted as being a ‘believer’…… so if I go tie myself to a tree and eat roots and leaves, I’m no longer an infidel and will go to heaven? Surely you’re making it up? -
janma Says:
March 27th, 2008 at 12:54 pmDo you think Cuk meant they were harmless and it’s just a typo? but I have these visions of torsos running around armless…. lucky they were Muslims just by virtue of being nature lovers and victims, cause they would have had a terrible time doing sholat without arms…
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March 27th, 2008 at 1:05 pmMurphy said
If you listen to typical sermon in the mosque, Bu Jamna, the preacher would painstakingly tell the history of the verse, explain the grammatical implications of every choice of word, and then elaborate what are the interpretations from different school of thought to that particular verse.
so that the umat keeps standing in awe for the koranic literacy of the preacher and - what is of paramount importance - doesn’t start thinking for themselves about the essence and purpose of it.
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March 27th, 2008 at 1:12 pm@ Janma and Murphy
Definitely Indonesia Matters is not a site for whitewashing a thing. Someone pointed out in a thread somewhere…. how many people want to read, Man does sholat, gets on with neighbours†or some such thing….
I was the one that said that Janma, and actually I was half being sarcastic. I’m pretty much in agreement with Murphy in the sense that most Muslims (even religious ones), just get on with life. No rioting, no bombing, no beatings or anything. Some even break out of normality and do overtly nice things. I read a few days ago about santri from a pesantren in Jepara making a mobile library they take around to people in their district, trying to promote a culture of reading. Other Islamic organisations and even parties also often hold free clinics and cheap markets for the poor and low-income earners. This is the kind of thing which doesn’t make it into Indonesia matters.
But as I think someone (it was dewa I’m fair sure) pointed out in another thread, if you have a look at the ‘about’ section of Indonesia Matters, you’ll find thats precisely the kind of story which not only does not make it into IM, but won’t. Its not part of the site’s vision or objective. From the ‘about’ section:
Good news is often no news, this site focuses on, for example, stories of extremist Muslims and bigoted people - however not all Indonesians are like that. This site makes no attempt to tell the whole story of Indonesia, just several parts of it.
Blogs, despite people’s best wishes, are by no means about balance Murphy, they’re about presenting a particular point of view. In IM’s case, that point of view is that there are extremist Muslims out there.
As for comments on articles which conclude (or rather promote the view) that its not just some Muslims who are extremist, but rather that all Muslims are and the religion of Islam itself is inherently evil, well patung doesn’t have a lot of control over that. Excessive moderation of comments wouldn’t be good for business either as one of the stated aims of the site is to be profitable.
As much as I agree with the points of view you put out here, you really can’t go blaming patung or the site for the kind of stories published. The only thing you can do is post your own say and move on. Or better yet make your own blog to focus on other parts of the ’story of Indonesia’. Ultimately its up to individual whether they take side with your view or another.
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Lairedion Says:
March 27th, 2008 at 1:14 pmJanma,
Probably Cuk meant without weapons, not armed….
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March 27th, 2008 at 1:17 pm“so that the umat keeps standing in awe for the koranic literacy of the preacher and - what is of paramount importance - doesn’t start thinking for themselves about the essence and purpose of it.”
Not quite….coz’ the Prophet SAW himself encourages muslims to seek for and obtain as knowledge as possible in Islamic teachings aswell as scientific knowledge….“Seek knowledge from the cradle to the grave .the preachers are regarded mainly as triggers, gates or stepping stones we don’t ‘worship’ them…their part is only to jump-start the umats to seek more knowledge themselves….and that’s why we have halaqahs or ‘pengajians’, where muslims with more knowledge share his/her knowledge with other muslims and to invite those other muslims to seek even more knowledge themselves…..the Quran is open to all muslims to read and study :)…
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janma Says:
March 27th, 2008 at 1:21 pmLairedion said,
Probably Cuk meant without weapons, not armed….
LOL…. I know….. just having fun.
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March 27th, 2008 at 1:44 pm@djoko
But as I think someone (it was dewa I’m fair sure) pointed out in another thread, if you have a look at the ‘about’ section of Indonesia Matters, you’ll find thats precisely the kind of story which not only does not make it into IM, but won’t. Its not part of the site’s vision or objective. From the ‘about’ section:
Good news is often no news, this site focuses on, for example, stories of extremist Muslims and bigoted people - however not all Indonesians are like that. This site makes no attempt to tell the whole story of Indonesia, just several parts of it.
It may come as a surprise to you but actually I have several Muslim friends even from outside Indonesia. They know that, although they don’t share my view, I am not attacking Muslims but after reading the Qur’an and hadith became critical of the theological and historical aspects of Islam and its consequences. I understand people need paradigms to live by but this doesn’t mean I have to stay silent.
A French saying is du choc des idées jaillit la lumière meaning ‘light springs from the collision of ideas’. -
March 27th, 2008 at 2:07 pm@ dewa
I understand people need paradigms to live by but this doesn’t mean I have to stay silent.
By the same token, people who have their life paradigms attacked are not likely to stay silent either heheh.
A French saying is du choc des idées jaillit la lumière meaning ‘light springs from the collision of ideas’.
That’s where we need to be.
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March 27th, 2008 at 4:06 pmdjoko said:
As for comments on articles which conclude (or rather promote the view) that its not just some Muslims who are extremist, but rather that all Muslims are and the religion of Islam itself is inherently evil, well patung doesn’t have a lot of control over that. Excessive moderation of comments wouldn’t be good for business either as one of the stated aims of the site is to be profitable.
Can’t argue that, djoko.
It came to me that the sober posters are actually the free riders. They normally don’t post much, do they? They just enjoy this fantastic site from the hits generated by the mud slingers. Such is life.
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March 27th, 2008 at 4:12 pmHad me in tears for a moment…..
but as to infidel status, I had no idea that living in harmony with nature was counted as being a ‘believer’…… so if I go tie myself to a tree and eat roots and leaves, I’m no longer an infidel and will go to heaven? Surely you’re making it up?Hi hi hi ..sorry Bu Janma if my high quality english have made you so confuse, God say that every people shall be judge based on a law in which reveleaded upon each of them( Bible, Quran and Veda or anything) , in the aborigal and red indian case what is God revealed to them..Quran? no…Talmud? no…Injil? no…God give them only the natural law so that as long as they do not destroy the nature balance they shall not be punished for anything because that is all they have and not like you.
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March 27th, 2008 at 8:43 pmGod give them only the natural law so that as long as they do not destroy the nature balance they shall not be punished for anything because that is all they have and not like you.
Yeah, God revealed the Law of Nature to the Aborigines and Native Americans so they shall not be punished. That’s why they were overrun and almost destroyed by white Christians in the name of God. Up until today they feel very blessed for not being punished by God.
Interesting theory you’re cooking up here, brother Cuk.
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March 27th, 2008 at 9:05 pm@ Murphy
Another Bule convert having a beef with me. I have come across many of your type. So let’s get this straight. Be honest (if you are capable).
As I know, Bules are ONLY attracted to Islam because of halal sex with little children. Just because they read about or seen elderly Arab men shagging little girls in the Indian Sub-Continent, they queued up in drove to Indonesian; unaware that Indonesian Islam is largely influenced by Kejawen. This is not the Middle-East or the Indian Sub Continent. Little children are protected from sexual predators like your kind. You will be gutted like a fish if you touched any of our Indonesian kids.
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March 28th, 2008 at 12:10 pmAluang boy,
You seem very bright for your kind. Have you considered a career with Eukanuba?
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March 29th, 2008 at 7:52 pmcuk, dewa, riyoz, aluang and others……..can we get past the philosophical/religious/point scoring crap?
i’m interested to know your responses to……………
1. …….The Sport of Sweeping in Solo…..is this action and the result justifiable? is vigilante action which results in death right?
2………The Lure of Batam………is the destruction of property an acceptable response to a delayed/cancelled flight - particularly when the property is owned by someone not involved in the problem?
no diatribes, just simple yes/no.
for the record my answers are.
1. no, no
2. no -
March 29th, 2008 at 8:32 pmMurphy Says:
March 28th, 2008 at 12:10 pm
Aluang boy,You seem very bright for your kind. Have you considered a career with Eukanuba
Murphy Pedo,
As a matter of fact, I am considering working for Pedo-Watch.
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March 29th, 2008 at 9:49 pmaluang…….when you’ve finished fighting murphy, what’s your response to my questions?
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March 29th, 2008 at 10:11 pmshorty,
What’s the point of oversimplifying your comments by just answering yes or no? This is not the purpose of blogging and discussing in the public domain.
Most bloggers want to learn and exchange ideas and thoughts and some of them use a fair dose of sarcasm, twisted humor or some strong statements now and then to fire up a discussion. I consider myself one of those. There are bloggers just pulling legs and throwing out baits and there are those naive bloggers biting those baits over and over again. Probably there are more types.
All this together make blogs an interesting place to be and it would be boring if we are just dropping comments with yes or no, agree or disagree.
FYI my answers are the same as yours… not based on religion or philosophy but on common sense.
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March 30th, 2008 at 12:13 amoow..sorry, shorty….well personally i don’t condone such unecessary violence like what happened in solo (though I’m not quite sure who started the fight and you know how the media twisted and turned news stories now and then), it was unecessary and perhaps things could turn-out differently if they leave emotion out of it….:)…the same goes to the incident in sulawesi….
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March 30th, 2008 at 4:28 pmLairedion/riyoz…. appreciate & take your points. I too like the the free flow of thought and opinion a blog provides….red herrings, sarcasm, parody bring it on. I also like to read other bloggers views on the chosen subject.
It was an attempt to bring discussion back to the subject. After all, if we didn’t have an issue, patung could just post…’go for it!’
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March 31st, 2008 at 2:09 pm1. …….The Sport of Sweeping in Solo…..is this action and the result justifiable? is vigilante action which results in death right?
Yes
This sweeping is justified because there was already too many youth group got drunk and involved criminal action while they still drunk.
If they want to get drunk OK..that is their personnel matter but they shall do it in their home or available Bar/ Cafe ..but if they do it in the street or other public area I will kill them2………The Lure of Batam………is the destruction of property an acceptable response to a delayed/cancelled flight - particularly when the property is owned by someone not involved in the problem?
No
Perpetrators can be sue according to applicable law
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March 31st, 2008 at 7:53 pmcuk,
if drunken youths are involved in criminal activity or unacceptable social behaviour surely this is a matter for the police/law.
i don’t quite understand your logic - smash a few windows and it’s a matter for the law.
get drunk and it’s ok to sweep - even someone gets killed - last i heard murder is illegal.
how about my earlier question - what if the drunks were muslim (yes it does happen) and the travellers hindu/christian?
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