FGM

Mar 3rd, 2008, in IM Posts, by

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446 Comments on “FGM”

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  1. avatar Oigal says:
    August 6th, 2008 at 2:04 pm

    I’m not impressed at all with the short-visioned WASP politics of the last 8 years and grandpa McCain is eager to continue these destructive politics.

    Interesting comment, of course the yanks should come home and the Middle East will rise as one to uspport Iraq and all those other countries in finding their way to a just representative society where one is free to worship how one pleases, find an education and God forbid, if you a woman perhaps drive a car…

    Then again in the real world, perhaps the yanks should just come home, spend all the saved money on how to “make safe” nuclear contaminated oil and just sit back as the crazies turn sand into glass. Shouldn’t take more than a couple of days once Iran goes Nuke.

  2. avatar Hugh7 says:
    August 6th, 2008 at 4:48 pm

    Justin et:
    “Hugh, here’s where I saw the thing with the string: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMK2VgcIuFc

    It’s obviously from the early 80’s, so it’s not a new practice. And I know what you’re talking about with the Plastibell, and that comes later in the procedure.”

    That is just a Plastibell(TM) circumcision. I didn’t see the part where a blunt probe is run around to separate his foreskin and his glans (they are firmly attached – it’s been compared to lifting fingernails), but it’s obviously been edited. “The part he doesn’t appreciate” is having a clamp poked in between them and then another put in and a slit cut with scissors between them. By the time the string is tied, he’s probably past caring.

  3. avatar Achmad Sudarsono says:
    August 6th, 2008 at 7:20 pm

    Oigal,

    Once again, a semi-drunken argument half-murmured into a Bir Bintang,

    What are you saying ?

    The Arabs can’t be civilized without the West ?

    Nuclear power isn’t safe ? May as well get out a Jane Fonda exercise video. She’s the one who popularized the anti-nukes campaign in the U.S.

    Maybe you should stick to golf courses & groping waitresses.

  4. avatar justin et says:
    August 6th, 2008 at 8:19 pm

    Oigal, you have a point. At least, I think you were referring to how we seem to be leaving Iran as Israel’s problem. But we have a policy of not negotiating with terrorists, and after having armed Iraq and Afghanistan in the 80′s, we learned the lesson of what happens when you don’t stick to your principles. There’s also the element of surprise, so if we do attack Iran we will likely do it unannounced. But I really think that when that happens we will just take out their nuclear facilities and the administration, not just nuke the country itself. I also really think that the majority of Iranians are on our side, even if their government isn’t, or even because their government isn’t.

    Hugh, you forgot the part where they serrate the foreskin before the initial cut. It is just awful.

    Achmad Sudarsono, if you believe that Iran is building nuclear plants to power itself, rater than nuke Israel, you’re an idiot because Ahmedinejad said that was why he was producing them. He also said it was for power, so don’t believe him. He’s a Muslim, so don’t believe him. He’s a dictator, so don’t believe him.

    And the Arabs can’t be civilized even with the West. How long was Egypt under British rule? And did they ever stop being monsters? Of course not Arabs they are born barbarians. Some Arabs were always civilized, like the Lebanese Maronites, but they didn’t inbreed and they’re all in exile.

  5. avatar Shloka says:
    August 7th, 2008 at 10:50 am

    @ Purba Negoro,

    Many thanks for your kind invitation to visit your country Indonesia. I’m sure it is a lovely place. I’ve actually visited neighbouring Malaysia and Singapore and I keenly look forward to visiting Indonesia, especially Bali someday.Speaking of Bali, you’ve pointed out the many positive features of Indonesian Islam which differentiates it from Arab Islam, and I’m sure you could’ve added lack of Indonesian bombers a few years back to the list. But after the two devastating Bali bombings and the totally proud and unrepentant Bali bombers, this is one more aspect where Indonesian Islam is beginning to look more and more like Arab Islam, where young men proudly blow themselves and others up in the name of their faith.

    Actually, I agree with you that Indonesian Islam allows many freedoms like no Hijab\Jilbab, letting people marry outside their religion etc but you maybe aware that these freedoms are getting lost in small ways. For instance the Ahmadiyyya sect of Islam was denied their religious freedom recently, and in one province of Indonesia, Aceh, there is compulsory hijab and dress code enforcing police, just like in Saudi Arabia. In neighbouring Malaysia, which is only 60% Muslim, anyone marrying a Muslim is obliged to convert to Islam and leaving Islam is a punishable offence. But overall, Indonesian Islam is still overwhelmingly tolerant compared to the Middle East or Pakistan.

    Finally, the issue which started me posting on this thread, female circumcision and your erroneous assumption that it is a pre Islamic Hindu custom. As you and so many other Indonesians have repeatedly pointed out that female circumcision of the Indonesian veriety is basically harmless, I guess I’ll defer to your superior knowledge on this issue. However in the article posted by Patung, there’s this statement by the Secretary of the MUI, East Java,Prof. Dr Hj Istibjaroh that the purpose of female circumcision “was to reduce the sex drive of women, while for men, the purpose was to increase the sex drive.” You can read his quote in the article given by Patung. I fail to understand how a “purely symbolic ceremony” can reduce the sex drive. Maybe Prof Dr. Hj Istibjaroh is mistaken?

    If I remember correctly, you were told by an Indian colleague that some surgery was performed on little girls with deformed genitals. Well, my neighbour just had a daughter with a cleft lip, so a surgery will be performed shortly to rectify this. Does this mean that Indian Hindus routinely chop off the lips of little kids? Of course, in case of genital malformations as in case of other kinds of malformations, surgical interventions are required. But its incorrect to assume that its regularly done. Neither male nor female circumcision is performed among Indian Hindus for non surgical purposes. Thus circumcision is as rare as appendictomy. :-)

  6. avatar Purba Negoro says:
    August 7th, 2008 at 11:03 am

    No- of course not.

    Everyone knows Indians are godless fire-worshipping cannibals living in hovels constructed of their own nose-pickings who our Christian god (also co-opted as private property in the US as “My-God (tm, Copyright)”) Righteously Punishes (Inc., TM, All rights reserved) with plague and locusts for worshipping craven idols with too many arms and naughty sex-depictions which lead our good Puritan Christian soldiers astray to carry a personal mini-linggam and accidentally salute those evil, slim, attractive and bendy Hindu women, who apparently can blow kisses with their yoni.

    Did I mention swarthy in their somewhere? I suppose I really should.

    Reds under the bed yet again, isn’t it?

    What was Kissinger saying about that lovely woman campaigning for social justice: “she’s a bitch” or somethng?

    Well I stand corrected on the Hindu issue of the Jewish haircut.
    By the way- that “professor” of MUI- his qualifications are from some madrassa way out in the forest and mud- so 99% of Indonesians dismiss anything he says as verbal excreta unworthy of even passing attention.
    He’s probably hen-pecked and denied by his fat wife too.

  7. avatar justin et says:
    August 7th, 2008 at 11:38 am

    Shloka, those ‘deformed genitals’ which need working on are usually those of intersex individuals who should be left alone unless they choose to reassign themselves to a particular gender once they reach an appropriate age and can make that decision for themselves, and most intersex individuals whose genitals are not operated on are glad that they weren’t and choose to leave them as they are. In the odd case of a too-curved-for-comfortable-sex penis or a completely closed hymen which doesn’t allow for menstrual flow to pass, surgery may be called for, but not in 99.9% of these cases. And don’t believe that Indonesian fgm is necessarily as they tell you. First, there’s the incredible taqiyya factor, whereby the word of Muslim means nothing. If you can find a few legitimate references for this, not one of which, btw, Purba Negoro has yet to produce, then there may be reason to believe it, but NEVER, EVER believe anything just because a Muslim told you. They might even believe they’re telling you the truth, since they also lie to each other all the time about everything. That’s how “honor” cultures work in pragmatic terms. Most dishonorably, since nobody’s word means anything. Then there’s the Reliance of the Traveler intentional mistranslation, so even proud, backassward, extremist Muslims further lies about it, as if we could possibly be more disgusted with them in the West anyway. Then there’s the increasing-radicalization-of-Indonesia factor, whereby, even if it wasn’t a widespread phenomenon 10 or 15 years ago, that doesn’t mean that it isn’t now. 30 years ago NO women under 80 except for Saudis wore hijabs. To paraphrase Mark Steyn, women who wore it were generally regarded the way 90-year-old Russian ladies in babushkas were, like dehumanized throwbacks from some distant era. And the niqab wasn’t even invented until the early 70′s, after Star Wars came out, and it was obviously modeled after Darth Vader – I am not making that up. Try to find a picture of a niqab from the 1960′s. You can’t. Bedouin women clutched their veils over their faces, but the niqab is a modern invention. Things do change in the Muslim world, albeit it in an invariably regressive fashion.

  8. avatar Purba Negoro says:
    August 7th, 2008 at 12:06 pm

    Justin

    please, for the love of god, read a book.

    I’ll even sponsor you.

    I know it’s hard considering your Bush government bans books (which is like totally different to like, you know berrning them and stuff like Hitler and Stalin) like that Mein-Kampf precursor Huckleberry Finn and that traitor Ben Franklin’s Memoirs.

    You may be interested that the Bible- both Testaments in Indonesia has been translated yet again into Javanese and Indonesia- by a professor of Indonesian, who is Muslim, fomr the best State university- Universitas Indonesia.

    Also note- Indonesian language uses many LATIN words like bursa, gratis, universitas, kapitalismus, et cetera – as a legacy of the great work the Jesuits did in educating the native Indonesian in the face of Dutch violence (frequently imprisoned, tortured and killed) and oppression (who sought to keep the Idigenous stupid).

    If you want another fine example of Dutch Colonialism- look at the Boers, South Africa and Apartheid.

    Apartheid is exactly what Indonesia was prior to 1945- white rule.

    Also, one of our very best universities- Tri Skati (Holy Trinity) is Catholic- which unsurprisingly has a majority Muslim student population.

    The Cistercians, the Jesuits, Marists and I think Bridgedine/Sisters of Charity are all well loved in Central Java for their history of hundred of years of charitable work for the native Indonesian.

    Our largest Mosque is directly opposite our Largest Cathedral (Catholic). BUT- we Indonesians frequently bitch about the Mosque being too Arabic- and not Indonesian enough in architecture.

    See for yourself here:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Istiqlal_Mosque

    Where in the US do you have even a synagogue and church opposite?

    Catholics and Muslims get along fine, many prominent native Indonesians and members of military and government have been Catholics, like our former ‘CIA’ Director Moerdani’s wife and their children.

    My wife’s sister and her best friend converted to Catholicism in 1999- and they remain happily married to their Muslim husbands.

    Protestantism is a relic of the lunatic Clavinist puritan Colonials, and only their selfless brown-nosing the Indonesian Chinese.
    The second largest ethnic group- the Batak, is considerably Prostestants too- but really it’s because they love to sing. We consider the Batak our very best singers- and they really are very good.

    And, Muslim Indonesians frequently visit Lourdes, Notre Dame, St Paul’s, Sistine Chapel, St Peter’s, St Basils etc- because for the millionth time- we only cherrypick from Islam what’s convenient for us.

    Gambling is “haram”- but we Indonesians don’t like others telling us what to do.
    So we ignore it and gamble on traditional things bullfighting, horse racing, cock-fighting (roosters for the dirty-minded). We will even gamble over a chess game.
    Drinking? We have three beers here- Bintang, Anker and I forget the other.
    Also we have traditional spirits here: “arak,’ Brem and tuak, which we keenly indulge.

    Muslims love the taste of Bintang (owned by Heineken) so much- that even the worst Lunatics relented and co-invested in a 0% alchohol beer.

    Children also purchase Green Sands- a popular Asia wide beer (I think 1-2%) and lemonade drink.

    Absolut Vodka, and soon some other Russian vodkas, have just started sponsoring our very popular electronic dance music scene.

    Exactly like the US- only the mentally deficient, the inbred and the low income/education demographic (which unfortunately is sizeable- but here we pretend to give them the vote as we don’t allow such mental children tamper) adhere to anything (in their delusion that Religion, rather than education, avoiding unprotected sex as a teenager, contraception or creative work, will alleviate their sh*tty lives) .

    So, I don’t know how else to stress this-
    religion is completely secondary for we Indonesians.

    Our constitution clearly states the first principle is Nationalism, then Humanism, then Democracy, Social Justice THEN Religion as the last article- stating all five state religions are equal.

    Thus our Indonesian Constitution is far superior to even the US’.

  9. avatar Purba Negoro says:
    August 7th, 2008 at 3:10 pm

    Justin-
    if you want to continue to perpetrate the well-earned stereotype of the scheming, paranoid, cowardly, self-interested restless cosmopolitan bourgoisie: the Shylock-Fagin: the bubo of humanity: the Jewish Racist,l please continue in your factless rants.

    You know Indonesia has the largest population of Muslims- but the 2nd largest is India. Both are legal secular democracies by Law and Constiution.
    Israel- full of Jews who genetically have gretaly love for profit than faith- have done an enormous volume of trade with them and some Muslim Indians too.

    In contrast the US is not secular by Law nor Constitution- it is only secular through a Supreme Court Interpretation of Law.

    Need we dig up Israel’s racist Zionist Constitution?

    Only 20% of the world’s Muslims live in the Middle East. So continually referencing them and using academic and archaic concepts such as “taliqqya”, “ab’d”, “zhimmi” etc- even in Sharia Law is extremely controversial and hotly debated, is not only intellectually dishonest, misrepresentative- it is totally irrelevent.

    Indonesian law is not Sharia based at all- it is Napoleonic French-Dutch.

    And as someone from the US where you have approx 20% of your willingly ignorant lunatics of the Christian Coalition who claim the world was created in 7 days, a mere 4000 years ago and Noah’s cedar (note not a structural timber) row-boat where he magically fitted two of every animal- including the ones we have not yet discovered aboard.. Mt Ararat 4000- you have absolutely no moral, intellectual or religious high ground.

    You and other ignorami may attempt to use your Jewish roumour mill to blacken our name, but fact and action will always disprove you.

    Here is evidence of just one aspect of our culture, which makes that of the Jew appear as it truly is: facile, derivative, conceited and baseless.

    Bigoted scheming Jews like you can ignore the facts as presented by the UNWHO, and US Dep State despite the US Government being keen to do business with us (and Israelis by complex proxy).

    So here for your own learning is a list of democracies the US has overthrown and tyrants they supported.
    I also include Jews like Magdalena Albrecht, David Cohen, Yakob Strau (Jack Staw) and Henry Kissinger guilty of genocide and murder:

    The Roman scholar Tacitus pointed out 19 centuries ago the Jews are unique among the races of man in their intense hatred and contempt for all races but their own.

    A good read for you is the Jew Clifford Gefertz’s book:
    Author of “Jews and Money: The Myths and the Reality.”

    US currently has 737 military bases worldwide- with 14 supersized bases and 52 more slated, being built in Iraq illegally and in direct violation of Iraqi presidential authority.
    http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0115-08.htm

    Proof the US is worse than Hitler:
    44,000 to 98,000 Americans die unnecessarily every year from medical mistakes made by health care professionals. (30 Nov. 1999 Washington Post, 30 Nov. 1999 AP, or pretty much any news source that day.)

    killed through U.S. foreign policy since WWII: 10,774,706 to 16,856,361 (1945-May 2003)
    US “firendly” Dictators:
    Augusto Pinochet – Chile
    “Papa Doc” Duvalier – Haiti
    Efrain Rios Montt (Jew)- Guatemala
    Park Chung-hee – South Korea
    King Fahd – Saudi Arabia
    P W Botha – South Africa
    Sani Abacha – Nigeria
    Rafael Trujillos – Dominican Republic
    General Suharto – Indonesia
    Fulgencio Batista – Cuba
    Shah Pahlevi – Iran
    Mobuto Sese Seko – Zaire
    Ferdinand Marcos – Philippines
    Anastasio Somoza – Nicaragua
    King Hassan II – Morocco
    Pol Pot – Cambodia
    Hosni Mubarak – Egypt
    Saddam Hussein – Iraq

    http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/

    List of CIA actions worldwide- including complicity in Genocides:
    http://www.totse.com/en/politics/central_intelligence_agency/166983.html

    US sells Opium to Chinese along with British:
    http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ho/time/dwe/82011.htm

    US forces killing Phillipinos:
    Graff, “American Imperialism and the Philippine Insurrection” (1969):

    * Filipino combatants: 16-20,000
    * Filipino non-combatants: 250,000
    Note the civilian death toll.

    Japanese civilians killed US Imperialists:
    30,000 (1945 US Strategic Bombing Survey);
    363,000 (Keegan, not including post-war radiation sickness);
    374,000 (Rummel, incl. 337,000 democidal); 435,000 (P. Johnson);
    500,000 (Harper Collins Atlas of the Second World War)

    US funding of KuominTang- Chinese Republicans:
    Rummel:

    * War Dead: 1,201,000
    * Democide by Guomindang: 2,645,000
    * Democide by Communists: 2,323,000
    * Famine: 25,000Democratic
    Vietnam:
    666,000 – though 222,000 (1/3) of these were actually SVN civilians mistaken for VC)
    SOUTH Vietnamese civilians:
    430,000 (The Sen. E. Kennedy Commission, according to Lewy, Olson)

    Note- there are millions of Vietnames bodies missing- ie bombed into scraps and vapour and never found:

    “an area not capable of pacifcation was a “free-fire zone” where anyone could be shot on sight, and which were subject to constant artillery barrages. In other areas, the Americans would literally plow the land down using huge Rome plows-giant bulldozers. The most famous case of this was the “Iron triangle.” A 32-mile perimeter 22 miles north of Saigon and an NLF bastion of support, it was first flattened by B-52s and artillery fire beginning in January 1967, and then the plows moved in and bulldozed everything in sight.

    … U.S. dropped over 100 million pounds of herbicides across Vietnam during the war with long-lasting effects on the Vietnamese and American soldiers. ”

    “The only thing they told us about the Viet Cong was they were gooks. They were to be killed. Nobody sits around and gives you their historical and cultural background. They’re the enemy. Kill, kill, kill. That’s what we got in practice. Kill, kill, kill.”
    A Vietnam veteran on basic training.

    Agent Orange in particular was laced with dioxins – extremely toxic to humans. Dioxins accumulate in the body to cause cancers. Anyone eating or drinking in contaminated areas then receives an even higher dose.
    Spraying stopped in 1971, after more than 6,000 missions and growing public disquiet.

    The US sprayed 80m litres of poisonous chemicals during Operation Ranchhand. There were many Agents used, including Pink, Green and White, but Agent Orange was used the most – 45m litres sprayed over a 10th of Vietnam

    CIA involvement in Drug Running (aka back to our old tricks):
    But the CIA’s involvement in this traffic was widely known Alfred McCoy’s book The Politics of Heroin in Southeast Asia (Harper and Row, 1972:),

    “American diplomats and secret agents have been involved in the narcotics traffic at three levels: (1) coincidental complicity by allying with groups actively engaged in the drug traffic; (2) abetting the traffic by covering up for known heroin traffickers and condoning their involvement; (3) and active engagement in the transport of opium and heroin. …

    US kills Kennedy attempting to end CIA drug-running:
    Michael Collins Piper, The Final Judgment, quoted at Vietnam, the CIA’s Illegal Drug Trafficking, and JFK’s Assassination

    Kennedy’s intended change in Vietnam policy — his plan to unilaterally withdraw from the imbroglio — infuriated not only the CIA but elements in the Pentagon and their allies in the military-industrial-complex. By this time, of course, the Lansky Syndicate had already set-up international heroin running from Southeast Asia through the CIA-linked Corsican Mafia in the Mediterranean. The joint Lansky-CIA operations in the international drug racket were a lucrative venture that thrived as a consequence of deep U.S. involvement in Southeast Asia as a cover for drug smuggling activities. —

    CIA installation of drug running in Burma to fund Nationalist Chinese (guilty of war crimes):

    An alliance of three intelligence agencies, Thai, American and Nationalist Chinese, played a catalytic role in promoting the production of raw opium on the Shan Plateau of northern Burma. During the early 1950s, the CIA covert operations in northern Burma fostered political alliances that inadvertently linked the poppy fields of northern Burma with the region’s urban drug markets. After the collapse of the Nationalist Chinese government in 1949, some of its forces fled across the border into Burma, where the CIA equipped them for several aborted invasions of China in 1950.

    http://www.voxfux.com/features/cia_drug_trafficking2.html

    CIA in bed with Medellin Cart:

    the Medellin Cartel’s Miami accountant, Ramon Milian Rodriguez, testified that he funneled nearly $10 million to Nicaraguan contras through long-time CIA operative Felix Rodriguez, who was based at Ilopango Air Force Base in El Salvador.

    http://www.serendipity.li/cia/blum1.html

    US supported Pol Pot:
    Thus has to share the blood of 1.5 million Combodians.

    US via Winer (Jew) under US Sen. Kerry:
    http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/US_ThirdWorld/UncleSam_PolPot.html

    Us support via puppet and US former airbase Singapore of Myanmar (Burmese) Heroine aka CIA still got grubby hands dealing heroine to fund Vietnam war:
    http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Global_Secrets_Lies/BurmaSingapore_Drugs.html

    “Singapore is widely reported to be a financial haven for Burma’s elite, including its two most notorious traffickers, Lo Hsing Han and Khun Sa (also known by his Chinese name Chang Qifu)”…

    CIA using OPium to fund Mujahideen

    ClA-supported Mujahedeen rebels [now, 2001, part of the "Northern Alliance"] engaged heavily in drug trafficking while fighting against the Soviet-supported government and its plans to reform the very backward Afghan society. The Agency’s principal client was Gulbuddin Hekmatyar,

    CIA asset Osama Bin Laden aka Tim Osman:

    Iraq Oil Robbery Pt 2:
    Brookings Inst. [http://www.brookings.edu/views/op-ed/ohanlon/20040917.htm]
    * U.S. troop fatalities in Iraq: 1,005
    IRAQI CIVILIANS April 30, 2003-July 30, 2004: 1,400-22,200
    * Iraqi police k. since May 2003: 710

    Israel vs Lebanon
    * 1982-87 Israeli vs PLO: 40,000 civ. + 12,000 mil. = 62,000

    Note civilians. Jews love kosher Muslim meat?

    U.S. citizen Rachel Corey (C), 23, b- Israeli military bulldozer killed Corey on Mar 16, 2003

    US Forces ‘Used Chemical Weapons’ during Assault on City of Fallujah
    http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/110805Z.shtml Powerful new evidence emerged yesterday that the United States dropped massive quantities of white phosphorus on the Iraqi city of Fallujah during the attack in November of 2004

    2007:
    Vang Pao, prominent Laotian exile leader and legendary CIA asset during the CIA’s clandestine Indochinese wars of the 1960s and 1970s was among 10 men arrested on suspicion of a military coup

    How many killed and how many deformed babies? Who cares – their goyim?
    After all – goyim baby meat is Kosher.

    A list of CIA actions against democratically elected leaders:
    Operation PAPERCLIP
    the U.S. intelligence community is smuggles unapologetic Nazis like Reinhard Gehlen, Hitler’s master spy including SS intelligence officers Alfred Six and Emil Augsburg (who massacred Jews in the Holocaust), Klaus Barbie (the “Butcher of Lyon”), Otto von Bolschwing (the Holocaust mastermind who worked with Eichmann) .

    1947: Greece
    President Truman requests military aid to Greece to support right-wing ……………..
    http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/CIAtimeline.html

    You Americans have no moral ground whatsoever to critique anyone- not even Mao, Stalin or Hitler.
    At least Hitler and Mao didn’t use drugs made from exploited 3rd parties to fund their war.

  10. avatar justin et says:
    August 7th, 2008 at 5:25 pm

    Bush’s government does not ban books. The Saudis try to ban our books by trying our authors in Britain, which was why we passed Rachel’s Law – so that can never happen. We don’t even ban Al Qaeda manuals. I own one myself which I legally downloaded off the Usenet. We actually have freedom of speech, along with freedom of the press, freedom, of assembly, freedom of religion, etc. Try really hard to wrap your head around it. Huck Finn and Tom Sawyer were ANTI-SLAVERY, pro-human rights books, but way to take pride in your ignorance and illiteracy and way to get your “education” from the Russian-fabricated Protocols of the Elders of Zion like a typical Muslim. Mark Twain was from Missouri for God’s sake. He was appalled by southern slavery, which was why he sought to humanize blacks in the eyes of southerners by writing those books, which served as the nation’s greatest pro-civil rights texts after Common Sense by Thomas Paine up until To Kill a Mockingbird.

    And does this Indonesian Bible translation have one Testament in which Jesus and Esau are one and the same, and Mary and Miriam too, all living one on continent, in one millenium, so as to not conflict with the Koran? And the parable of the cave? Is it 300 AND 309 years, or 200 like it was written? And did Jesus die on the cross and was he the son of God? Did he turn water into water at the wedding of Canaa? Or was it wine? Did he enslave the slaves, or did he free them? Oh, and did he marry Mary Magdalene so as to not conflict with Islam’s twisted definition of adultery, which, unlike the NT, brings marriage ito the equation? Because Jesus considered polygamy to be adultery, but not sex outside of marriage. Oh yeah, you would have to read in order to answer those questions. My bad.

    South Africa, despite its sad history of apartheid and its AIDS situation, is far and away the most civilized country in Africa. I would actually argue that Singapore is lightyears ahead of you guys, however. But I would not argue that Dutch-colonized countries are better-off than, say, English-colonized countries. If that were the case, the US, Canada, and Australia would be Suriname, Indonesia, or South Africa.

    We have synagogues right next to churches, right next to mosques all over the free world. My Catholic high school, which has an adjoining church, is directly across the street from a Jewish temple in Indianapolis, Indiana, in fact. What kind of question is that? And what exactly was your point in asking it, except to demonstrate how backward you are?

    And Absolut is Swedish. You’re probably confusing it with Stoli, which is Russian.

    The only country, for the hundredth time, to have ever had state religion for any period of time without falling decades, if not millenia behind the ball in terms of everything worthwhile is Israel, where state religion is only theoretical, and where people are also free to practice any religion. I would argue – and every legitimate history, government, and poli sci has my back on this – that state religion is an inherently regressive, self-destructive practice, which, in the post-colonial era inevitably leads to civil war, which is why South America is rife with it, Spain and Ireland had them, and Italy has been on the verge of it since they reunified in 1945. The US Constitution has unfettered freedom of religion, and separation of Church of State, because we actually have some concept of democracy, which means that nobody’s twisted notion of what constitutes “morality” can be imposed upon people from the top-down and we are free to live our lives the way we want, since not allowing that prohibits reason and egotism, which are what keeps nations from falling under evil, parasitic, regressive, totalitarian ideologies like communism, fascism, and Islam (http://www.6thcolumnagainstjihad.com/a_gmason_p8.htm). Your constitution is cannibalistic and self-destructive. History will prove me correct. Just wait. Your constitution makes a mockery of democracy by perverting dictatorship into someting that sounds like democracy, but actually isn’t, since all power is concentrated at the national level and goes completely unchecked, and since you don’t elect the majority of your leaders. That’s how dictatorship works. Power has to be diffused to the state and local level, checked at multiple levels by multiple parties, and election should be the way of electing one’s leaderS, not just one of them. In the abscence of all those elements you’re left with a dictatorship.

    Did Indonesia even ratify the UDHR? Oh, that’s right. Human rights mean nothing to Indonesians, which is why you’re members of the OIC. Again, my bad.

  11. avatar Teng says:
    August 7th, 2008 at 6:43 pm

    But I would not argue that Dutch-colonized countries are better-off than, say, English-colonized countries. If that were the case, the US, Canada, and Australia would be Suriname, Indonesia, or South Africa.

    Maybe the countries aren’t better off…. but the natives sure as hell are. Or do you think the Native Americans are better off than Indonesians, or the Aborigines better of than Suriname people?

  12. avatar Shloka says:
    August 7th, 2008 at 9:22 pm

    @ Purba Negoro,

    Yes the world’s second largest population of Muslims is in India, but the % of Muslims in India is a little more than that in France, and of course India is a liberal democracy, exactly like France. Muslims in both India and France are the poorest and a larger % of the prison population in relation to their total population. In India, Indonesia and France, Muslim bombers have made their contribution to the nation’s dead and mutilated too, and so all three countries have to have strict anti terror measures. Its another matter altogether that in India ad France, where Muslims are the minority, they are the terrorists, while in Indonesia, where the Muslims are the majority, the terrorists are Muslims too.

    The third largest population of Muslims in the world is Pakistan, and unlike India, France or the Netherlands, where the majority gives the Muslims a democracy and the right to vote, we know the state of democracy in Pakistan. Of course, unlike Indonesia and Pakistan, Ahmadiyya have full religious freedom in India and France, thanks to their non Muslim majorities. ;-)

  13. avatar justin et says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 12:40 am

    The Native Americans were killed off by the Spanish, Teng. And I would argue that the Aztec genocide was absolutely the right thing to do. They were un-civilizable, violent, narcissistic savages who could never, ever be tamed or even dealt with, being more like carnivorous animals than humans. They weren’t like the Incas, the Mayans, the Cherokees, or the Sioux. They were monsters who needed to be eradicated just like the Canaanites. The Surinamese are as European genetically as the Mexicans, Teng, like, 80% Dutch, Spanish, and Portugese with small isolated pockets of Incas. And the Native Americans in America proper (as opposed to what was Mexico then) were largely decimated by being infected with smallpox. It was only intentional in the case of the Aztecs, who were in Mexico, and killed by the Spanish. Yes, the British settlers and later the Americans pushed the Indians westward and there were many bloody conflicts over land, but there was never ethnic cleansing on the part of the British or later on the Americans, only the Spanish.

    Here are some articles on how Islam destroys Aboriginality, Teng, just like the Dutch killed all the native Surinamese:
    http://islammonitor.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1381&Itemid=91
    http://islammonitor.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1384&Itemid=91
    http://islammonitor.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1401&Itemid=91

    Shloka, here’s a great article on Islamic backwardness by my man Sujit Das: http://islammonitor.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1475&Itemid=66

    It’s quite incredible when you see the stats, particularly the illiteracy stats, and of course the one I gave before about how more books are translated into Spanish every year than have been in the last thousand into Arabic. But here’s one that wasn’t included: when you remove oil from the equation (which of course can only be drilled, pumped, and processed with infidel money, resources, and manpower) the entire Muslim world has a combined GDP which is less than that of Luxembourg or my home state of Indiana.

  14. avatar Purba Negoro says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 12:55 am

    Justin- you are an unqualled fool and a Jewish bigot.

    Go back to eating your kosher Palestinian babies.

    Shloka- ahmadiyya is a dangerous sect- exactly like the lunatics like the US loves- as per Waco Texas, Jonestown etc.

    Unlike the US- freedom here has legal responsibilities to society.
    And unlike the US- our Constitution is unalterable and by law and very basic and concise so that even drooolers such as Justin can read and comprehend it.

    The glories of Jews:

    Communism: invented by a Jew Marx
    Financial Speculation which cuased the Depressions of late 1800′s, devalued the Deutchmark, monopolised Weimar Republic business to create conditions perfect for Hitler: Jews.

    Invention of atomic weapon: Oppenheimer and Einstein- Jews.

    David R. Francis, United States ambassador in Russia, warned in a January 1918 dispatch to Washington:
    “The Bolshevik leaders here, most of whom are Jews and 90 percent of whom are returned exiles, care little for Russia or any other country but are internationalists and they are trying to start a worldwide social revolution.”

    The Netherlands’ ambassador in Russia, Oudendyke, confirmed this: “Unless Bolshevism is nipped in the bud immediately, it is bound to spread in one form or another over Europe and the whole world as it is organized and worked by Jews who have no nationality, and whose one object is to destroy for their own ends the existing order of things.”

    Churchill:
    “There is no need to exaggerate the part played in the creation of Bolshevism and in the actual bringing about of the Russian Revolution by these international and for the most part atheistical Jews.”

    Trotsky? Jew
    Grigory Apfelbaum (Zinoviev): executive, Soviet Secret Police
    Solomon Lozovsky: deputy Soviet foreign minister.
    Maxim Wallach (Litvinov): Soviet foreign minister.
    Yuri Andropov:

    Who started the Gulag system? Jews.
    Lavrenti Beria
    Matvei Berman
    Naftaly Frenkel
    How many killed in the Gulags- more than the entire death toll of World War Two. By whom? Jews.

    Lazar Moiseyevich Kaganovich- destroyer of cathedrals and rapist of nuns- Jew
    Genrikh Yagoda: chief of Soviet Secret Police, mass murderer. Jew.

    Julius Hammer, M.D.: New York co-founder of the American communist party. Jew

    Markus Wolf: chief of German Communist Stasi Secret Police.Jew.

    Inzhir, commissar for Soviet death camp transit and administration.
    Boris Berman: executive officer of the Soviet Secret Police and brother of Matvei Berman.
    K.V. Pauker: chief of operations, Soviet NKVD Secret Police.
    NKVD= fore-runner of KGB.

    Who killed the Czar’s women by bayonet?
    Surprise, surprise Jews as usual kill kosher.
    Yakob Yurovsky- head of Czar death squad.

    Ipatyev house, where it occurred was destroyed in 1977 under orders of Yeltsin- in case it became a shrine for patriotic Russians to justifiably mark their hatred of the globe’s parasite.

    Firin, Rappoport, Kogan, Zhuk: superviseed slave labour during construction of the White Sea–Baltic Canal. Who died? Russian orthodox christians and peasantry?

    Who inaugurated the World Zionist Congress?
    Jews.

    AIPAC? Jews.

    Who controls the blood diamond industry of Sierra Leone? Jews- Rothschild’s via either Rio Tinto.

    Who owns Argyle diamonds, Australia- JEws via Rio Tinto.

    Who owns 3rd largest diamond mine- which has propped up Mugabe for years? Jews of course.
    Murowa is owned by Lundin mining, which is owned by Riop Tinto- which is majority owned by Rothschild’s.

    Nigerian Shell using mercenaries ofr control of oil? Jews again.
    In 1903 Rothschild’s bought a majority shareholding in Royal Dutch Shell.

    Yes- Muslims in comparison are mere innocent babes compared to the rivers of Christian blood you have on your rodent Jew talons.

    Colonialism in Indonesia was financed by Jews in Amsterdam, Antwerp and Bruxelles.

    Exactly like the Amsterdam Jewery financing of Cromwell killing the brave Christian King Charles.

    Read a book, child.

  15. avatar justin et says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 2:19 am

    Purba, READ. And take a psych course so that you stop projecting your insecurity regarding your illiteracy and lack of education onto others and realize how transparent you are to those us who have legitimate 7th-grade educations, seriously. Communism was as much created by Kant as it was Marx. And your notion that “freedom here has legal responsibilities to society” means that you are idealistically communist, as opposed to capitalist/individualist/social darwinist. Pick a position and run with it, or at least try to understand what position you’re taking before you rant at people about it. Cromwell was a Christian, as were the Indonesian Dutch colonists. By “financed” by Jews that means that they borrowed money from the only ones they could – Jews – because the Catholic Church forbade usury, not because the Bible ever did, but in order to keep Europe under serfdom and monarchy; it’s a gross distortion of reality which you again no doubt got from your fabricated Protocols-of-the-Elders-of-Zion “education.”

    Financial speculation was a worldwide capitalist phenomenon, which, yes, Jews contributed to, but were no more responsible for than everyone else, unless you subscribe to the insane, ignorant, racist, paranoid, and baseless notion that “Jooooos control the money and the media and everything else,” which of course explains why they’ve been so horribly victimzed so many times throughout history – it’s all that power and influence they have.

    Creating the atomic weapon was absolutely the right thing to do. If you read Einstein’s letter to FDR from 1939, years before the Manhattan Project, he makes it crystal clear that it was us or them and it was only a matter of time. The Germans were working on it and had 90% of the world’s uranium on their side. And it was Oppenheimer and FERMI who invented it, not Einstein. It was based on Einstein’s Atomic Theory, but I wouldn’t expect you to have any grounding in physics or history, since you believe that Jesus and Esau were the same guy and that he didn’t die on the cross – the single most provable fact from ancient history – and you believe that the earth is flat and that the sun sets in a muddy puddle.

    And while you apparently endorse evil, parasitic, totalitarian regressive political ideologies, based on every political statement you’ve made, you somehow have a hard time, through your violin-playing always-a-victim-of-the-white-man worldview understanding how Jews would be ready to get on board with communism (not ideologically intolerant and genocidal enough for you?), given the kind of “equal treatment” they enjoyed under European law in the early 20th century? I guess everyone but Joooos are victims of the white man. OK. But the Russian Jews were as determined as the rest of the PROLETARIAT to kill off the “class enemy” because they had all the money. Good logic, retard.

    And Churchill? Like I said, it’s understandable (to thinking people) how Russian Jews could get on board with communism, which was Churchill’s point, but way to take that statement out of context to suit your twisted purposes, as it was anti-communist rant, and not an anti-Semitic one, in an attempt to justify the Allies’ getting on board with Stalin in order to defeat the Nazis, which would have otherwise been impossible, despite the fact that 90% of the Soviets’ artillery and even uniforms and food were donated by the US, since the whole idea was to tie up Hitler fighting an Eastern war and letting the Nazis freeze to death, which worked. Here’s what Churchill writes about Islam in The River War:

    “How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men. Thousands become the brave and loyal soldiers of the Queen: all know how to die but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. ”

    And you’re right. It wasn’t Stalin who killed those 20 million Russians in the gulags. It was Joooooos. Since they enjoyed so much power and influence, like everyone else, under Stalinist totalitarianism. And the World Zionist Congress? Yeah, how evil of Jooooos to want a homeland where they would be safe from genocide. The only problem that non-racist, non-Judeophobic, non-totalitarian-ideology subscribers have with Zionism, Mr. Progressive, is that state religion is a slippery slope, albeit one which Israel has managed incredibly well with zero backslide for 60 years, in defiance of all prior political science and historical determinism.

    270,000,000 people have died in the name of Islam. How many people have died in the name of Judaism. The Canaanites, who deserved to die. That’s an exhaustive list, unless you’re incapable of separating government from religion and you count all those “Palestinians” (Muslim colonialists with a typical narcissistic Muslim sense of entitlement to that which was never theirs and which they never earned or would never maintain were it theirs anyway, if “Palestine” is any indication of their regard for “their” land) who get killed when Israel defends itself against attacks on their part. Not one attack, even a provoked one, has ever been carried out by Israel. Every single military endeavor carried out by Israel has been entirely defensive, and against genocidal “Palestinian” terrorism and military undertakings on the part of Syria, Lebanon, and Egypt. And nevermind that King Hussein of Jordan killed more “Palestinians” during Black September than Israel has over the course of 60 years, and that it was because those sick monsters tried to take over – surprise! – land that was never theirs but which they nonetheless felt themselves entitled to out of a crminally insane, colonialist, narcissistic, parasitic worldview.

    And you call me racist. http://islammonitor.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1442&Itemid=64. Check it out and see the “Palestinians” eating the entrails of Israeli soldiers, just like your “prophet” mutilated Jewish corpes “to delight the [oh-so-tolerant, enlightened, and mentally healthy] believers” after an unprovoked night raid on an unarmed population, or the beheaded Indonesian girl whose head was left on the doorstep of a Christian holy place, or the Sudanese Dinka slaves in chains, or the beheaded Thai Buddhist, or the Bangladeshi “Hindu [who] was beaten to death with sticks outside a mosque as the Muslim mullas chanted “kill the Kafir!”.

    Or these examples of Muslim “tolerance” (http://islammonitor.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1424&Itemid=64):

    How about text and laws that state that children aged 10 or more who don’t pray should be beaten?
    Don’t forget beheading, amputation, hot irons in the eyes, stoning, flogging etc are set punishments.
    Homosexuals or sodomites can expect death or at the very least hundreds of lashings.
    And lying, particularly to promote Islam or trap/trick kaffirs is fine.

    And the incredible racism:
    -Mohammad is a white man.
    -Arabs are the best of people.
    -Mohammad had black slaves and likened a dream of a black woman to an epidemic.
    -Kill the Jews.
    -Kill the Turks and people with flat faces and small eyes ..
    -At judgement, people with white faces go to paradise but those with black faces go to hell.

    Let’s not forget Islam’s lovely attitude to non-Muslims:
    -Don’t be friends with Jews or Christians or allah will reject you.
    -When you meet an infidel cut off his head…
    -Slay the idolators wherever you find them..
    -Fight until all the religion is allah’s etc, etc
    -Kill apostates (who of course become members of other religions or atheists—more Islamic tolerance)

    Horrendous laws for dhimmis – mainly Jews and Christians, who are allowed to live as 3rd class citizens, subjugated under vile Islamic laws:
    -Dhimmis must pay the jizya tax being humbled, humiliated and tapped on the neck to remind them that they will be beheaded if they dare step out of line.
    -No building of religious sites or openly practising their religion.
    -No authority over Muslims.
    -No weapons.
    -Dhimmi houses must be smaller and lower than Muslim houses.
    -Dhimmis have to dress differently.
    -Dhimmi testimony is not valid against a Muslim.
    -Dhimmis must be humble in front of Muslims, give up their seat etc…
    -Dhimmis must house and feed Muslim soldiers

    And of course the unprecedented misogyny:
    -The female body is regarded as offensive and must be covered showing at most only the face and hands (or else –cat’s meat!!).
    -Child marriage/paedophilia is allowed.
    -Mohammad in the hadith and Arab shafi’i Law endorse clitoridectomy.
    -Men can beat women and plough them like fields [i.e. rape them, even their own daughters and sisters (K 2.223)].
    -Men can have multiple wives and divorce them at will (no such rights for females).
    -Men can restrict women to the home and only allow them out if veiled.
    -Males and females must be segregated unless mixing with their family or spouse.
    -Females are described as inferior in every way, coming and going in the shape of devils, populating hell, crooked, full of guile, bad omens, polluting, impure, fornicators, temptresses….
    -A woman’s word is worth less than a man’s and doesn’t over-ride a man’s.
    -Females inherit less than males
    -Females must be available for use by their husband at any time.
    -Slavery (including the current enslavement of black African Muslims in the Sudan) and taking the goods and land of non-Muslims is allowed—booty.
    -Sex with slaves (including married ones) is allowed for Muslim men. Mohammad gave females to his friends to enjoy

    Or this lovely tidbit about Indonesian tolerance: http://www.persecution.com/recent_resolute.html

    “INDONESIA – Recently, Muslims closed a church in Jatimula, Bekasi, West Java, Indonesia and blocked Christians from entering and holding services.

    According to The Voice of the Martyrs contacts in Indonesia, ‘Muslims blocked the alley leading to the church building. Pastor Anna and Huta Julu had to lead worship outside their church building and believers had to sit in the dirty alley to pray outside their church.’”

  16. avatar Lairedion says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 3:04 am

    And I would argue that the Aztec genocide was absolutely the right thing to do. They were un-civilizable, violent, narcissistic savages who could never, ever be tamed or even dealt with, being more like carnivorous animals than humans.

    Yes, the British settlers and later the Americans pushed the Indians westward and there were many bloody conflicts over land, but there was never ethnic cleansing on the part of the British or later on the Americans, only the Spanish.

    But of course the Whites are much better. Only Whites can justify genocide because they think they have moral authority over non-whites, driven by their white supremacist way of thinking and Christian religion. The Whites almost completely destroyed the cultures of the Indigenous peoples of the Americas, Australia and New Zealand, stole their lands and claiming these lands as their property.

    Who are Whites anyway to take authorization and to determine the Aztecs were uncivilized savages while we all know Whites are responsible for millions of killed non-Caucasians during the colonial periods in their never-ending thirst for power.

    Well into the 70′s the US Bureau for Indian Affairs was still pursuing a policy of “assimilation” and only on May 19, 2005, the Massachusetts legislature finally repealed a disused 330 year-old law that barred Native Americans from entering Boston. In a 2007 focus group study by the nonpartisan Public Agenda organization, most non-Indians admitted they rarely encounter Native Americans in their daily lives. While sympathetic toward Native Americans and expressing regret over the past, most people had only a vague understanding of the problems facing Native Americans today. For their part, Native Americans told researchers that they believed they continued to face prejudice and mistreatment in the broader society.

    Such is the treatment of indigenous peoples in the “most just nation” on our planet.

  17. avatar Teng says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 4:21 am

    The Surinamese are as European genetically as the Mexicans, Teng, like, 80% Dutch, Spanish

    No they are not. There is hardly any Dutch blood in Surinamese.

    just like the Dutch killed all the native Surinamese

    No they did not. The indigenous people actually helped slaves and formed a new cultur called the Maroons. And because the Dutch couldn’t “pacify” them, they signed a peace-treaty. After that the Dutch brought in contract workers from Java.

    And for the above described acts of the Dutch, and even more the colonisation of Indonesia I actually feel ashamed as a Dutchman. However you seem to ‘downplay’ all acts of Americans (by calling the decimation of Natives Americans to about 10% ‘driving them west’) and actually approving of the genocide of Aztecs… because YOU consider them beasts. By saying that a genocide is ‘the right thing to do’, you are a bad person in my eyes. You started out with valid points against FGM, and you end up as a America-Supremacist. The “We are the oldest democracy, we saved Europe in WW2″ act is getting old. And besides…. Greeks invented democracy (and your two-party district system isn’t all that either btw) and the Russians actually saved Europe too.

    It might be better if you stopped your anti-islam, anti-europe, white supremacy rant and return to the subject, FGM… because I do agree with you on that one… its barbaric, horrific and should be stopped everywhere in this world

  18. avatar justin et says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 6:22 am

    The Aztecs had killed off nearly all the indigenous tribes of Mexico, with the notable exceptions of the mountain-dwelling Mixe and Oaxaca, and unlike other colonialist tribes, left no culture or civilization, only destruction in their wake, only a bunch of raped women and carcasses. They were basically a nomadic, parasitic army who lived to kill, kill, kill, and destroy the otherwise by-and-large very peaceful, live-and-let-live indians. They plundered, killed, and pillaged, then moved on, leaving only raped women behind, but killing their children, and even killing dogs out of pure bloodlust. The Aztecs WERE beasts. I am not defending taking the land of the other tribes, who were very peaceful, civilized people who actually treated the Spanish and British very hospitably for the most part and could have taught those Europeans a thing or two about how to live and let live. But the Aztecs were an incredibly evil, destructive people who wanted nothing but blood and booty. The world is better off without them.

    Today the Native Americans are misunderstood because they are underrepresented in the media, but also in society, because they are mostly a very separatist people, regardless of tribe. I respect that, though, since their way of life doesn’t infringe upon everyone else’s, by, for example, putting Dark-Age Nazi slave rags on the ancient Egyptian mummies in the London Museum and demanding that ‘Queer as Folk’ be taken off the air so the “morally-superior”-to-Dark-Age-sickos “Big Love” could make polygamy look like something besides the sex slavery that it is and finance it with money from America’s own supremacist, separatist, insanity-based cult which worships pedophilia, sex slavery, arranged marriages, and the abolition of harmless vices like dancing and caffeine – the Mormons. And being separatist in one’s own country is one thing, but moving to another country and carving out a separate society, even demanding separate Dark-Age Sharia laws and endless jizya welfare because they have no education, skills, or work ethic, only 18 inbred, illiterate, little monsters who destroy otherwise good school systems by raping 12-year-old girls, beating up Jews, and slowing class down to a pace that is inappropriately slow even for retards, and who even cause us to have to redefine ‘retardation’ since 85% of a population can’t be ‘retarded’ without US being racist even though they’re not even a race but rather a cult, is simply unacceptable.

    And yes, the Russians did help save Europe. It could not have been accomplished without them, which is why I defend the unholy alliance with Stalin, but they did it with tanks, guns, food, uniforms, and ammo given to them by the US and made by women like my grandmother. It’s incredible the way they destroyed Dresden. The Nazis had an enormous force in Russia that the rest of Europe plus the US couldn’t have possibly destroyed, although the Russian winter killed more of them than the Russian soldiers and Stalin was a bigger fan of letting them starve in pogroms than wasting firepower on them, which was probably why the Nazis stopped taking prisoners and started killing everyone even when it wasn’t necessary to win. We certainly didn’t have anywhere near the manpower left to do that given the fact that we were also fighting the Japanese because the nancy-ass Europeans were too lazy and apathetic to save our asses or those of the Koreans, even though we saved theirs. Indonesia would have been next, but I would never expect a Muslim population to display any sort of base modicum of gratitude so as to make the French look appreciative.

  19. avatar Cukurungan says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 7:58 am

    Cuk, America is 232 years old, has three times Indonesia’s population, reports its crime stats ACCURATELY, and doesn’t impose Sharia punishment, so a certain degree of recidivism is more likely here since we don’t impose draconian, Dark-Age punishments.

    Hi hi hi new math from Graduated Faith Freedom Institute:

    245 millions x 3 = 290 millions

    Indonesia does not impose Sharia punishment as well, but let check again the statistic,
    US with population 290 millions has put more than 2 millions of its citizens in Jail while Indonesia with populations 240 million has only imprisoned less than 200 thousand of its citizen, Therefore, the draconian, Dark-Age punishment system would more suitable name for the US Law System rather than the Indonesia Law System but even so US crime rate is still great embarrassment for them.

    An Intriguing question suddenly arise… how many US citizen should be put in Jail in order to reduce their crime rate at least equal to the Civilized Indonesia Society? Anyone want to bet with me? My bet at least US gov. should imprison half of their citizens then the America streets would be safer and the world will become more better place to live for anyone.

  20. avatar Shloka says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 10:18 am

    @ Purba Negoro,

    I’m curious, what is it that makes the Ahmadiyyas a “dangerous” sect? Ahmadiyyas have their own theology, they accept Mirza Ghulam as their last Prophet, instead of the Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) but Muslims also disagree with the Christian notion of Trinity, Jesus as Son of God etc. If Ahmadiyyas are a dangeorus sect simply for disagreeing with some fundamental aspects of mainstream Islam, shouldn’t Islam in Europe be banned too? After all, not only do Muslims disagree with some fundamental aspects of Christian theology, they’ve indulged in terrorist bombings in many places of Europe as well, thus rightly making them “dangerous”.

    To the best of my knowledge, far from being a dangerous sect, the Ahmadiyya have been at the receiving end of many violent attacks on their places of worship, and have been personally assaulted by mainstream Muslims in Pakistan, Bangladesh and Indonesia. I haven’t seen Ahmadiyyas planting bombs in Sunni Muslim mosques in retaliation. Nor do Ahmadiyyas produce FPI like thugs.

  21. avatar Achmad Sudarsono says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 10:27 am

    Dear All,

    Just my 2 Rupiah’s worth:

    Shloka is mistaken. The cult in question does indeed see Mirzan as the last prophet. At the same time, it is a nation-wide 100-country fan club for me !

    Yes, Achmad has a giant fan club !

    Ukuele – have.

    Peci – have

    Moustache – have !

  22. avatar Shloka says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 11:19 am

    Achmad Sudarsono,

    I dont’ understand. Please explain.

  23. avatar Achmad Sudarsono says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 11:32 am

    Ahmaddiyya — is the transliteration from the holy Arabic language. Ahmad — is the same word as:

    Achmad.

    Shloka — they are my fan club ! Shloka you may not know this, but I am widely acknowledged as one of the seksiest men in Indonesia – if not Asia.

    Gr-r-r-r-owl !

    Through my seksiness I have converted many feminists back to the right way. There are few (straight) women who can resist the golden tones of Achmad and his Ukuele !

    Does that help ?

  24. avatar Shloka says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 12:25 pm

    Achmad Sudarsono,

    I’ve seen your picture in your last avatar and I don’t find you particularly handsome. I also don’t like men with moustaches. I guess I’ll never convert to Ahmadiyya then. ;-)

  25. avatar Achmad Sudarsono says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 2:13 pm

    Shloka,

    That’s kind of like the sound a woman’s heart make when she first hears me strummin’ on the ukuele.

    It’s not about mere cosmetics….

    It’s about mojo. And pheromones

    I’m talking about nothin’ other than the science of lovin…

    You know it’s the truth.

  26. avatar Purba Negoro says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 2:31 pm

    Jews n Jews.
    The brave Noam Chomsky fighting an uphill battle against the genetic Zionist racism:

    http://www.chomsky.info/books/dissent01.htm

    Jews on Zionist Jewish slur tactics and paranoia of Anti-Antisemitism:

    “Attacking Jews for undermining Judaism seems to have become something of a theme in modern Jewish life. When I was in yeshiva in Jerusalem in the 1980s, I had a rosh yeshiva (an American ultra-Orthodox Jew) who used to refer to all secular Jews as anti-Semites.”

    http://www.zeek.net/print/704debate/

    Conscientious Jew Phyllis Bennis on Zionist Jewish Racism:

    http://www.colorlines.com/article.php?ID=215

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/BEN108A.html

    Oh dear- it seems there are some good Jews have that Hindu-Buddhist-Christian-Muslim affliction- a conscience and a shred of humanity.

    Nixon on Jews- whose attempts to remove the Zionist infestation from US government led to his demise and subsequent black libel against his name:
    [T]here may be some truth in that if the Arabs have some complaints about my policy towards Israel, they have to realize that the Jews in the U. S. control the entire information and propaganda machine, the large newspapers, the motion pictures, radio and television, and the big companies, and there is a force that we have to take into consideration.”—Richard Milhous Nixon, Thirty-Seventh President of the United States of America, as quoted by Leonard Dinnerstein, Antisemitism in America, Oxford University Press, New York, (1994), pp. 232-233

    Note- Zionist Jewery try everything and anything to prevent Jewish War Criminals Henry Kissinger and Magdelana Albrecht from facing charges of Crimes Against Humanity

    Jewish exploitation of Colonial India (hidden by political agenda of Hindu Nationalists keen to eradicate 2nd largest political demographic- via “the enemy of my enemy…” co-belligerence mentality [though lacking the sophisticated caution of the Japanese in their similar Fugu plan)
    Some ket figures:
    Shalon Cohen:
    established trading links from London to Shanghai – dealing in indigo, cotton, yarn, silk, Veniceware, precious stones, gold leaf, ivory and coffee.
    Moses Duck Cohen
    Sassoon (financier and sharegolder in East India Company)
    Sassoon Docks, etc
    Ezra- various mansions, plantations some evidence of opium cropping.

    Kolkatta Synagogue of Neveh Shalome :
    ” the individual who is also the keeper of the sanctum sanctorum, where the Torahs are kept, is a Muslim. Only in India will you witness such a level of spiritual neighbourliness…”

    mainly from http://www.hinduunity.org/Jewsofindia.html

    US Jews alarmed Ron Paul will estroy their Cash Cow- the US Federal Reserve Scam:
    http://www.dailypaul.com/node/54626

    Woodrow Wilson on having enslaved America to Jews:

    List of Jews running the US:
    AMERICA IS NOW A JEW-RUN NATION. Here is a list of the prominent Jews who run America:

    http://www.radicalpress.com/?p=681

    Isn’t Iran home to the largest number of Jews outside the Pale-ghetto-schtetl of New (Jew) York and Zion-Nazi Israel?

    Jewish War Profiteers:
    Guggeinheims- copper and metals trading under Luken Steel
    Eugene Meyer- wall street copper futures trader
    Baruch- bullied Wilson into the Fed Reserve Fiat money scam

    Brave contrite Jew Benjamin Freedman loses to his Conscience and details the deceit of Khazar-Ashkenazi Talmudism:

    http://nielsensrakings.blogspot.com/2007/09/what-jews-promise-on-day-of-atonement.html

    Sorry, who was Cyrus the Great?
    How are the Sephardi Jews treated in Iran?

    And how are the Sephardi treated by the Ashkenazi-Khazars of Israel?
    How do the Orthodox gun-toting Khazar lunatics treat pious Sephardi again?
    Of course you can’t spell European Jew without ‘nazi’?

    Brave Benjamin Freedman on the Talmud:

    http://nwww.natvan.com/american-dissident-voices/adv101594.html

  27. avatar Oigal says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 2:53 pm

    US with population 290 millions has put more than 2 millions of its citizens in Jail while Indonesia with populations 240 million has only imprisoned less than 200 thousand of its citizen

    The rest of the thieves AND NO HOPERS are in government and the civil service (or pass the time writing ..sorry cut n pasting to IM)

  28. avatar Purba Negoro says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 3:26 pm

    Jewish criminals of Russia

    Mikhail Khodorkovsky- Yukos theif
    Roman Abramovich- granted asylum in Brtain like Chinese parasite supreme Tak Sein Shin (awat)
    Boris Berezovsky
    Vladimir Gusinsky
    Leonid Nevzlin (Isreali honest legal minds protest vehemently)
    Boris Ivanishvili
    Viktor Vekselberg (ran to Israel)
    Oleg Deripaska
    Alexamder Abramov
    Mikhail Fridman

    Wikipedia:
    Berezovsky’s (Jew) image among Russians is generally poor; many consider him the most unlawful and unethical of the oligarchs and blame him especially for the country’s economic collapse. They believe that he, like other oligarchs, defrauded the government through Yeltsin’s privatization program. He also financed Viktor Yushchenko’s campaign in Ukraine, which is illegal under Ukrainian law and could lead to Yushchenko’s impeachment. This is another fact you would never hear in the Western mainstream media since he is pro-Western and his “Orange revolution” was celebrated by the West.]
    http://www.freedomliberationmovement.com/html/Jewish_Oligarchs.htm

    The real reason Western media (jewish owned) hate Putin:
    http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=news&div=4150

    Russian orthodoxy is now fastest growing Chritian movement worldwide.
    Already our Russian friends and believers in a Just God have sent emissaries to Indonesia.
    Russia sees Indonesia not only as a Comrade against US Imperialism – but a much need ded voice of moderate, progressive and tolerant Islam- who can help reconcile Russians and the millions of Muslim citizens Russians from the extremism of Arabic orthodoxy.

    In 2009, we are very keen to the great honour of entertaining His Most Holy Patriarch-
    Patriarch Alexei II a learned and pious man in Indonesia.
    A true man of Esa-Christ, God-Allah-Ram-Yahwe and friend of Islam (had many warm and friendly meetings with Irani Islamic figures and even Jews!!).

    Putin warns latest Russian Officer graduates:

    http://www.secretsofsurvival.com/survival/is_russia_preparing_for_war.html

    Guess who would like a unipolar monoply?
    Muslims? no
    Christians? no
    Hindus? No
    Buddhists?
    Sephardi Jews? no
    Messianic Jews? no
    Druze? maybe
    Pagans? no
    Church of Flying spaghetti monster? no
    Dutch? no

    psuedo Jews: Ashkenazi Khazars? Bing!

    Brave German Christian Democrat (Germany a very fond ally and trading partner- having educated many leaders): Mr Hohmann said:
    “Jews were active in great numbers in the leadership as well as in the Cheka (Soviet secret police) firing squads.

    “Thus one could describe Jews with some justification as a Taetervolk (a race of perpetrators).

    http://www.secretsofsurvival.com/survival/is_russia_preparing_for_war.html

    So who’s the real enemy?
    Bigotted and greedy US Christians and their covetous Jewish manipulators

  29. avatar Oigal says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 3:29 pm

    PN…….YAWN….Why don;t you start your own blog instead of boring us all to death with your rubbish

  30. avatar Achmad Sudarsono says:
    August 8th, 2008 at 6:14 pm

    Oigal,

    Haven’t heard from you re my “special services…” Happy to offer a discount… Buyakasha !

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