Treason of the Intellectuals

Feb 29th, 2008, in Opinion, by

Ross continues to be infuriated by the lovely Julia Suryakusuma, and other intellectuals.

The chattering classes in Jakarta are starting to make themselves comfortable with the worst elements of Islam.

It has to be said that "intellectuals" are at best self-important bores and at worst a social cancer. I make a clear distinction between them and intelligent people, who are useful to work with and often fun to socialise with. Both my descriptions are of course generalisations, and since in the West we have writers and such who have sense as well as brains, the same must apply to Indonesia. But the brightest would probably shrink from using the self-regarding term "intellectuals" anyway. It's usually a self-classification, adopted to facilitate looking down on less pretentious people.

Julia Suryakusuma
Julia Suryakusuma

Having said all that, I suspect the notorious Julia Suryakusuma considers herself an intellectual, since she has even had books published, so she serves as a good example of the pernicious breed that concern me.

Up till now, she has contented herself with traditional left-libbery, notably her pro-PKI gushings and her obsession with sex, which surfaced most recently with a succession of articles displaying a childish glee at talking about one's private parts and a chunk of prose revelling in a deviant jamboree in newly Ruddised Australia.
However, last Wednesday's 27/2 Jakarta Post threw the glove down for those of us who appreciate Western standards.

Julia naturally expressed disapproval of murder (how magnanimous!) but argued that the brutal slaying of the Dutchman Theo Van Gogh was

not surprising

Maybe not, but it SHOULD be surprising to anyone brought up to respect that old adage about disagreeing with others' views whilst defending to the death their right to hold and express them.

Van Gogh's film about Islam may not have been a masterpiece but despite Holland's old Catholic-Protestant rivalries, his country had long been known as a stronghold of old-fashioned liberal values (which are a tad different from modern "liberalism", but never mind.)

He had every right to make his movie and it ill becomes a sympathiser with communism to tell anyone else that we should engage in self-censorship if primitives may get upset by what we think. If we censor legitimate critiques because nasties react maniacally, we are betraying our own Western heritage.

However, let that pass. Suryakusuma got the bit between her beautiful teeth and proceeded to go after Somali-born Hirsi Ali and the Bangladeshi writer Taslima Nasreem, two women who have striven with fantastic courage to expose the evil that Islamists impose on all members of their sex (note I don't use the drivel-word "gender". We have two sexes on this planet, not the multiple genders favoured by "liberals".)

Ayaan Hirsi Ali
Ayaan Hirsi Ali

I've not got into the Bengali lady's works too deeply, but Hirsi Ali had to hole up in safe houses behind Dutch security forces for a long time, due to vicious and serious death threats, after telling the world what horrors women face in Islamic societies.

Sweet Julia, knowing full well the ordeals these heroines suffered and still suffer, bleats about how Hirsi:

talks of and extols an ideology of victimisation.

What does that mean? Our chatter-princess openly resents Time Magazine's inclusion of Hirsi as one of the 100 most influential figures on the world stage - good vintage feminine, not feminist, jealousy here, surely?

No, for Julia, they "overdo it". So Julia finds it

all very tiresome, and in my own personal experience misleading

It's

shared by few here in Indonesia.

More tiresome surely for the poor woman not far from Jakarta whose little foodstall was shut down violently by Islamist swine for daring to sell food during last Ramadan. Yes, here in Indonesia, and have the cops arrested and jailed the cowardly scum responsible? Or the ratbags in Lombok who terrorised the Ahmadiyah dissidents?

Maybe not as tiresome as being confined by barbarians' menaces for months in a military complex. That's what happens nowadays in decent old Holland, thanks to multiculturalism. But after all, let's not be "misleading". Share the blame around fairly, like Julia.

Christian countries overdo it too.

She cites the Da Vinci Code controversy, but did rabid Catholics threaten to behead the author of the book, as moronic Muslims in Indonesia called last week for the death penalty for Danish cartoonists? (who are not Muslims and therefore not bound by Islamic rules against depicting the Prophet, or do we all have to bend the knee to Koranic strictures?)

Not so far as I've read. The Pope did not issue any fatwas (the death sentences ordered on folks like Salman Rushdie for upsetting that evil old tyrant Khomeini) on those who defamed his Church (and I'm far from being a Catholic, believe me!) No, the days of Christians burning and torturing dissidents ended centuries ago, and savagery is pretty much a non-Christian monopoly these days.

Julia rapidly evolves into a cheer-leader for that silly old goat Williams, the Church of England Primate. He reckons that the basic principle of English law, one law for all and no exceptions, which, however imperfectly applied, remains the pride of its people and the envy of other nations, is out of date, so Brits ought to incorporate elements of sharia into the legal code. Thus they'd have a variety of rules for a variety of minorities (minorities for the moment, though the UK is not so far down the tube as Sweden, where uninvited savages stage demos with banners announcing

Ours in 2030

a realistic boast, given the way undesirables breed like rabbits).

And the quaintly chauvinist punchline has to be that Indonesia is not like other countries - we're in the largest Muslim democracy, where honest women can be dragged off by goons for waiting for a bus after dark, where surveys of opinion, in the Jakarta Post, forsooth, show something like half the Muslim population in favour of stoning for adultery, for God's sake (if it was for corruption, fair enough!) And apostasy may not be a capital crime, but as Al-Qidaiyah's followers are finding, it is tantamount to an imprisonable offence.

Oh no, Julia, not the same, not quite yet...

The virus is not unique to Iran or Taliban strongholds. Western Muslims of the second or third generation, given free education and growing up in western societies, are, in disturbingly large numbers, just as infected, witness the sectarian thuggery in Paris and Antwerp.

Almost all the "representative" Muslim organisations in Britain are up in arms because Gordon Brown, in a fit of what they call "Islamophobia", barred entry to a Muslim cleric who has lauded suicide bombs and declared he didn't give a damn (I paraphrase his words) if women and children were among the victims. But then, they must be "extremists", not the mainstream Julia wants to succour. So where are these moderates?

There are plenty of good, civilised Muslims around, here as elsewhere, but they have yet to out-organise, isolate and crush the rotten elements. Having people like Julia Suryakusuma offer platitudes about how it ain't surprising when critics get butchered does nothing to encourage them.


60 Comments on “Treason of the Intellectuals”

  1. avatar Achmad Sudarsono says:

    Hi Ross,

    Though I’m reluctant to dignify your rantings with a response, seems like you’re indulging in a little intellectualizing yourself here.

    Or rather pseudo intellectualizing, or really just blabbering, ranting, and raving, with little logic or argument.

    Who are these intellectuals ? No definition offered, just a photo of Julia, leaving to meander wander fancy-free, like a ship without a rudder in the high-seas.

    You throw out these suspicious, liberal, intellectual, notions like the one below. (Are you a closet communist)?

    Maybe not, but it SHOULD be surprising to anyone brought up to respect that old adage about disagreeing with others’ views whilst defending to the death their right to hold and express them.

    What you don’t like Ross, is smart, sexy women having an opinion, and writing it. Julia’s an easy target. Why don’t you got for something harder ? No, actually don’t.

  2. avatar Murphy says:

    Maybe you should go “deeper”, Ross. Bengalis and Somalis live 6,000 km apart.

    I’ve not got into the Bengali lady’s works too deeply,

  3. avatar Odinius says:

    Murphy:

    When he says Bengali, he’s talking about:

    Bangladeshi writer Taslima Nasreem

    I don’t know her writing either, but Hirsi Ali is the kind of crude generalizer I really can’t deal with…take the most extreme example and tar everyone with a nominal affiliation to them.

  4. avatar John Orford says:

    don’t forget to take the happy pills ross!!

  5. avatar Ross says:

    Who needs happy pills when that pretend pribumi Achmad (is he from Aussie or England, I wonder?) can make me laugh so much.
    He thinks Suryakusuma is an exemplar of the desirable woman? I prefer somebody with real guts like Hirsi Ali -rather cuter too, but that’s a personal opinion.
    Yes, Odinius, I stick to ‘Bengal’ as that is what Bangladesh means. Bengal Land, just as I say Greece rather than Hellas. No idea what Murphy means, but perhaps he’ll clarify.
    It’s a long tradition in too many countries that the self-styled intelligentsia are hostile to what less self-absorbed folk think and value. Sartre, Russell, Chomsky, etc.
    If you want an Indonesian example more significant than Julia (Suryakusuma, not the much more impressive Perez) -and that wouldn’t be hard, since I only single her out because she shoots her mouth off in the Jakarta Pest so often – just look back at Pramoedya, the worst sort of brain-box without conscience.
    Anyway, let’s wait and see how many other readers share the dismissive attitudes expressed above for those supergirls Hirsi and Taslima. We know poor old ‘Achmad’s’ line- if it’s lefty, love it; if not, insult it, abuse it, but don’t risk argument.
    Now I’ll stand back for a week and watch the fun.

  6. avatar Deng Xiao Phing says:

    I love Ayaan Hirsi Ali, from the day one I saw her interview with BBC live, I knew she is the real ibu kita Kartini in modern era.
    If you are genuinely Indonesian without being corrupted by middle-eastern extreemism mind, you shall admire her courage, her ability to act & influence the western media & the Dutch parliament from nothing

  7. avatar PrimaryDrive says:

    My impression of Hirsi Ali is that she appears as an opportunist. Perhaps there is a great deal of honest intent in her case on how islam treats women, but so is her ambition (so it appears to me). I don’t trust her.

  8. avatar Lairedion says:

    Ayaan Hirsi Ali is a very brave and courageous woman who dares to criticize and expose the true goals of Islam and dismisses dividing Islam into moderate, conservative and radical labels. As a reward she needs to be guarded 24/7 and is being shunned by political correct MP’s and media who are too afraid to admit multiculturalism in Holland is a failure.

    I can relate to Ross’ views here but I find his displaying of frustration and anger towards Julia Suryakusuma, her views and left-wing politics and media in general uncivilized and ill-mannered. What did she do to you personally for you being so aggressive towards her? What’s the purpose of labeling Pramoedya as a brain-box without consience and calling a newspaper the Jakarta Pest?

  9. avatar Achmad Sudarsono says:

    Ross,

    Bob and weave, duck and weave, but avoid the argument.

    * Julia aside:

    What do you mean by an intellectual ?

    * Aren’t you intellectualizing in an attempt to knock “them” (whoever they are ?)

    Learn to debate and grow up.

  10. avatar Fanglong says:

    Ross is exagerating.
    I’m glad I’m back here & see Achmad’s name on the first line.
    Please make no sex differences in ideas !
    And don’t hate each other for ideas so empty !

    Salam hangat — dari (salah satu intelektual [lelaki]) negara Prancis !

  11. avatar Achmad Sudarsono says:

    Fanglong,

    Good to be back in cyberspace – fighting for the truth.

  12. avatar Janma says:

    I don’t think that julia is pretty, I don’t think Indonesia is a democracy and I don’t think that Bangladesh is Bengal!
    So there!

  13. avatar Ross says:

    Tea-breakm time for a quick retort or two.
    Achmad, before urging maturity on others, check your numerous infantile posts, accusing opponents of having stained batiks, rusty type-writers and inhabiting filthy dives. Such tripe would hardly become a thirteen year old, and we could also look at your penchamt for showing off dirty talk. Guess your nationality being exposed has upset you.
    Lairedion, that woman gets whole chunks of pages to broadcast her bizarre views. Why complain if I get a few corners in a blog to respond?
    The JP is indeed a pest to those of us who lack a fair-minded newspaper, and Pramoedya, a brain-box- I was being charitable. He wrote dull proapganda-style tomes.
    As for the earlier gibe that I resent spirited women, I could list America’s Ann Coulter and old Phyllis Schlafly, Canada’s Senator Ann Cools, Aussie Janet Albrechtsen and of course Britain’s Iron Lady, whom I had the honour of meeting. Women like those, with guts and grit deserve admiration- mouthy pinkos who sell out good gals like Hirsi and Ali deserve contempt.

  14. avatar Lairedion says:

    Ross,

    Lairedion, that woman gets whole chunks of pages to broadcast her bizarre views. Why complain if I get a few corners in a blog to respond?

    Responding in a civilized way is one option. Ranting on a person is another. That’s my complaint.

    The JP is indeed a pest to those of us who lack a fair-minded newspaper

    What in your opinion is a fair-minded newspaper? I suspect you’re afraid of the Jakarta Post’s left-leaning views being read by most expats. I suggest you start your own neo-conservative liberal English-language newspaper to counter-balance JP’s views.

  15. avatar Odinius says:

    Ayaan Hirsi Ali is a very brave and courageous woman who dares to criticize and expose the true goals of Islam and dismisses dividing Islam into moderate, conservative and radical labels. As a reward she needs to be guarded 24/7 and is being shunned by political correct MP’s and media who are too afraid to admit multiculturalism in Holland is a failure.

    Or she’s a fear-mongering opportunist who uses a broad and diverse religion as a horse to flog by dismissing those within it who have liberal and moderate views and reducing said diversity of belief and practice into one easy to hate caricature. As a reward she has an extremely high-paying job at a neoconservative think-tank in Washington, DC and is being fetted by right-wingers who gleefully declare that multiculturalism anywhere should be a failure 😉

  16. avatar Lairedion says:

    Odinius,

    Put off your political correct sunglasses. You just don’t get it, do you?

    There is no such thing as a diverse Islam, something you constantly fail to understand. “Radical Muslims”, as they are called by Westerners, are just following what they are taught to do by mainstream Islam, based on Al-Quran, Sunnah, Hadith and Sharia. “Moderate or liberal Muslims” acknowledge mainstream Islamic teachings but are disregarding certain parts and are considered infidels or non-Muslims as such by “Radical Muslims”. Mainstream Islam itself has no moderation and demands you to follow it to the full and there are no if’s, but’s or maybe’s.

    Ayaan Hirsi Ali understood this but was being shunned by liberal thinking Westerners for being intolerant.

    Google for Paul Scheffer, a Dutch left-wing publicist and his essay “The Multicultural Drama”, written back in 2000 and perfectly explaining why multiculturalism in Holland is a failure.

  17. avatar Odinius says:

    Lairedion,

    Put off your Islamophobic sunglasses. You just don’t get it, do you?

    There is no such thing as a monolithic Islam, something you constantly fail to understand. “Moderate Muslims”, as they are called by Westerners, are just following what they are taught to do by mainstream Islam, based on Al-Quran and the Sunnah (which is the collection of hadiths from which sharia is derived). “Radical Muslims” acknowledge mainstream Islamic teachings but are disregarding certain parts and are considered extremists or non-Muslims as such by “Moderate and Liberal Muslims”. Mainstream Islam itself has plenty of moderation and is quite open to variation in interpretation and practice, as evidenced from how Islam manifests itself in Bosnia, Turkey and many pother parts of the globe that those who neither know nor care to look ever consider.

    Ayaan Hirsi Ali did not understand this and so was celebrated by bigoted Westerners for being intolerant.

    🙂

  18. avatar timdog says:

    An engagingly furious rant, and with plenty of validity – though I am myself a flaming liberal and general Islamophile of the kind I suspect you despise.
    But I simply must take issue with this:

    There is of course no need to cite specific examples, but I think we all know that one does not even need to travel beyond the borders of Indonesia to find evidence that this is not the case…

  19. avatar Lairedion says:

    Odinius,

    I suggest you read the six major hadith collections and Sharia law and tell here what you find in these about apostasy, adultery, infidels, paedophilia etc. Here is an example to start with:

    Bukhari Volume 9, Book 84, Number 57:

    Narrated ‘Ikrima:

    Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to ‘Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn ‘Abbas who said, “If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah’s Apostle forbade it, saying, ‘Do not punish anybody with Allah’s punishment (fire).’ I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah’s Apostle, ‘Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'”

    Some moderation, innit?

    Happy reading? 🙂

  20. avatar Achmad Sudarsono says:

    Ross,

    (3rd time):

    Who are these “intellectuals” ? What do you mean by the word intellectual ?

    I’ll get back to the insults later.

  21. avatar djoko says:

    @ Lairedion & Odinius

    I’m seeing something happening here which pops up from time to time, and thought I would just comment on it (slightly diverging from the main post at the top perhaps). Jumping in the fray so to speak.

    What I find particularly amusing is that it is increasingly becoming the case today that there are some non-Muslims who are far more comfortable with the idea of Islam as this murderous, misogynistic religion than with the idea of an Islam which can just get along with life.

    Perhaps I would first point out that the Hadith above is quoting what two people were saying about general commands from the Prophet on a situation (apostasy, though here it could just as easily be construed that they’re talking about people from other beliefs in general, as its not clear whether said athiests were Muslims in the first place), as opposed to the Prophet himself saying ‘kill athiests’.

    The second thing I would point out is that the Prophet’s command for those who left Islam (apostasy) to be punished by death actually has less to do with religion as such, and more to do with the political situation at the time. The Muslims during the time of the Prophet were still a rather small group, and in most cases managed to survive by webs of alliances. All men of fighting age were essentially the only defense force the community had, a permanent conscripted army if you will. Thus people leaving the community (ie becoming apostates) were the equivalent of deserting an army (even more than that, deserting an army in dire need – the fact that the Prophet allowed polygamous marriages with war widows is proof enough that they were running short of men). If you desert an army nowadays, for example the U.S. army, its an offence punishable by death, so what is particularly wrong about apostates at the time of the Prophet being punished in that way as well?

    As for whether it applies today, I feel the fact that the original law pertains more to a state of war and desperation combined with the fact that there are more than enough Muslims to go around means that the law no longer applies to the current situation. This of course is not to say that the law has been canceled out forever (if the Muslim community is somehow reduced to a few hundred or thousand, is in a state of war and on constant verge of annihilation, I dare say it could come back into force again). As for the time being though, my reading on it is that theres no need for it at the moment.

    Now the problem comes in when you have to come up with some kind of reaction or response to the view I’ve put up there. You would think that some people, especially non-Muslims, would actually be pleased, hopeful even, that there would be some way that Islam and Muslims can act and live like civilised people in the modern world. Or at the very least they would perhaps treat it as another of the many different kinds of views put forth.

    But I think what you will find (and I’m waiting for the inevitable here), is that some, particularly non-Muslims, will just flat out reject it. For some (once again not all, but there are some out there), they just have no interest in any possibility whatsoever of Islam and Muslims being able to play a part in the modern world. Any suggestion, even from Muslims who are (much more than me) well versed in religious texts, concepts and history, is of no interest to people like this, because they have in their mind already exactly what they think Islam is, and god help you should you try and say otherwise. They quote hadith and verses from the Qur’an, not so much out of an interest in ‘what is this Islam all about?’, but more out of a view that ‘Islam sux, and here’s why’. They seem to be far more comfortable with the idea of Islam as an evil religion, and immediately block out any suggestion that it might be otherwise or at the very least no more or less evil than any other religion, philosophy or ideology out there. They love the mullahs, not because they agree with what they say intrinsically, but because what they say serves to reconfirm their view that Islam and Muslims sure do suck.

    Two questions I would put forth about views like this are:

    1. Are you happy that (in your view) Islam condones mindless killing and oppression?

    and

    2. If you are indeed absolutely convinced that Islam and every last Muslim who follows it are nothing but misogynists, rapists, murders and all round bad guys a- and have answered in the affirmative to the first question – then what? Do you just let said evil fester? Or do you have something in mind…..?

  22. avatar Ross says:

    Djoko -I am appalled at the way ‘moderate’ Muslims do not seek to stamp out the evil in their midst. It’s not my job to do so, for I’m not a Muslim, and any interference from me would be ill-received by the so-called moderates. But somebody’s going to have to sort them out.
    The real people here, the friendly folks we rub shoulders with every day in shops and buses, are not hateful fanatics, far from it, but they are apathetic, or cowed, and their ‘elected,’ ‘organised’ representatives appear happy to lend a cachet of respectability to the worst sorts.
    Dinh Syansuddin and A A Gym, recall, showed up at the Hizbut Tahrir rally and another telegenic ustad was on hand to welcome that old beast Abu Bakr out of jail.
    Achmad, just take a look at your favourite newspaper, and see how many of ther regular contributors are left-libs, who may find the Islamist agenda distasteful but all too often set out to blacken the West’s image, notably that fatuous woman Ningrat- is that her name, writes from Washington – who churned out biased propaganda about poor old McCain, almost managing to make him seem like a conservative! Your beloved Julia typifies the type, with her ranting against those who have real guts, like Hirsi etc. and the JP never gives the conservative side a fair hearing, nor indeed any hearing if we go after their blatant bias.(as in the EU ‘reporting’)
    We can’t get the better of these mad bombers and their fellow-travellers if the ‘intelligentsia,’ here as in America and UK and the rest, are acting as cheer-leaders for appeasement.

  23. avatar Achmad Sudarsono says:

    Ross,

    Last time: what do you mean by an intellectual ?

    Ok. Let me help you:

    Ross, you moron, there’s such a thing as conservative intellectuals.

    Ayn Rand
    Milton Friedman
    U.S. Philosopher Nozick

    To name but a few. (Or maybe you think Milton Friedman is a communist).

    What you really mean is left-leaning liberals.

    Ok. You don’t like left-leaning liberals. I think everyone got that. Or maybe you think left-leaning liberals are communists, they’re all intellectuals, and therefore traitors.

    Did you get a lobotomy mid-way through political science 101 ?

  24. avatar Lairedion says:

    djoko,

    Let me give you some examples of “moderate Muslims” in European societies.

    – Dutch banks on the verge of offering loans based on Sharia law.
    – Our friend Odinius had trouble with the fact Danish Muslims were not given separate cemeteries. Western cemeteries of course are not good enough because they’re full with dead infidels.
    – Anglican Church Head Rowan Williams stating that it is inevitable certain parts of Sharia law will be implemented in British Law.
    – Non-Dutch speaking imam refuses to shake hands with female minister.
    – PvdA (Social-Democratic Party) female city council member in Rotterdam agreeing with Hizbut Tahrir teachings and threatening fellow members after being criticized for that.
    – Muslim women wanted to swim in “burkini”, a full body and hair covering swimsuit.
    – Islamic elementary school using subsidized money from Dutch government to travel to Mecca instead of improving teaching quality to its pupils.
    – Same Islamic elementary schools are teaching their pupils to reject and not participate in Dutch society.
    – Moroccan woman living in predominantly Muslim neighbourhood being harassed and her house set on fire by fellow Moroccans for not being Islamic enough (she is an apostate dyeing her hair and having tattoos).
    – Turkish Prime Minister Erdogan demanding Turkish speaking universities to be established in Germany.
    – Dutch-born Moroccan football player Ibrahim Affelay (PSV) opted to play for the Netherlands. He is a pious Muslim and followed bulan Puasa while playing football on the highest level. In stead of being applauded by the Moroccan community he was branded as a traitor by his “brothers”.
    – Moroccans and Turks celebrating and dancing in the streets after the 9-11 attacks.

    To conclude, take a look at these pictures of peacefully demonstrating “moderate Muslims” in London.

    http://www.snopes.com/photos/politics/muslimprotest.asp

    So no, I’m not particularly enthusiastic to live together with these kind of people.

  25. avatar Odinius says:

    Lairedion,

    Maybe you can help me out on something. Since you know enough about Islamic theology to make blanket generalizations of the faith more than a billion people, then why don’t you know that each of the four traditional jurisprudential schools (shafii, hanbali, hanafi and maliki) all differ tremendously on which hadiths are important and, among those that are, which ones are relatively more important than other ones?

    Secondly, how come you can’t see that this is a historical reference, as Djoko points out, and as such is not universally interpreted literally? Many Muslim scholars believe it was a reflection of the times and contravenes several statements in the Quran concerning there being no compulsion in religion.

    Moderation, innit.

    Happy reading 🙂

  26. avatar Odinius says:

    So no, I’m not particularly enthusiastic to live together with these kind of people.

    If you were just talking about extremists, I might agree with you. But of course, as you’ve told us, all Muslims are the same and there’s no variation. I also heard each and every Dutch person is a rampant colonialist who can’t to thieve and steal what doesn’t belong to him. And every American is a bomb-happy cowboy. And every Mexican is a gangster. And every Jew a manipulative banker. And every Christian a dogmatic zombie. And every German an unrepentant Nazi. So who needs any of them either, right?

  27. avatar nyoped says:

    Lairedion
    You said “Turks celebrating and dancing in the streets after the 9-11 attacks”. Can you please provice evidence? I find it disgusting that right wing Europeans use this tragedy to advance their own racist agenda.

  28. avatar Lairedion says:

    Odinius,

    Let’s get something straight. My view of one Islam is not something odd. I have many Muslim relatives and friends and all of them rejecting the labeling of Islam into different kinds and say this is a Western invention. I’m not into generalization here but I’m just confirming what I’m basically told by many Muslims of different stock. However almost all of them acknowledge they are influenced by their respective clerics, ulama’s, cultures and surroundings and this results in the diversity and different interpretations by Muslims worldwide. So they all agree Islam is one but they almost all disagree with one another how this one Islam should be viewed. And they’re all blaming the others for following incorrect views and interpretations. Hence diversity with Muslims. So Islam needs to be set apart here from its adherents.

    But of course, as you’ve told us, all Muslims are the same and there’s no variation.

    So this statement of yours is not true as I never said this. You might wanna check this link

    Hidayatullah.com

    It is in Indonesian but it is basically what I’m trying to say and explain here.

    Lebih baik dan lebih aman jika saat ini kita tidak ikut-ikutan menambah daftar panjang predikat Islam, seperti “Islam modernis”, “Islam tradisionalis”, “Islam liberal”, “Islam fundamentalis”, “Islam radikal”, “Islam salafi”, “Islam rasional”, “Islam militan”, “Islam konservatif”, “Islam kanan”, “Islam kiri”, “Islam garis keras”, “Islam kultural”, “Islam struktural”, dan sebagainya. Lebih baik kita menyebut “Islam” saja. Islam yang satu, dan tidak memecah belah menjadi berbagai jenis Islam, yang maknanya kabur dan tidak jelas.

    I’m assuming your Indonesian is sufficient is enough to translate it for yourself since you’re a regular visitor of Indonesia but feel free to ask for a translation.

    Odinius, I hope you understand my point here….

  29. avatar Lairedion says:

    nyoped,

    It happened in front of my own house in the city I live in. Moroccan and Turkish youth honking the horns of their cars and shouting and jeering: “To hell with the USA and Israel!”
    Sorry I didn’t video it.

  30. avatar Pena Budaya says:

    I am very familiar with situation as mentioned by Lairedion and I don’t fancy these people as my neighbours either.

    I read Suryakusuma’s article – http://thejakartapost.com/news/2008/02/27/stones-glass-houses-hatred-rules-not-ok.html – and I can understand Ross’ irritation towards her opinion. As an agnostic almost an atheist (Note for Julia, atheist can not be categorized as religion) it is tiring for me to read the typical so called Indonesian muslims intelectuals like Julia Suryakusuma.

    Julia naturally expressed disapproval of murder (how magnanimous!) but argued that the brutal slaying of the Dutchman Theo Van Gogh was

    not surprising

    Maybe not, but it SHOULD be surprising to anyone brought up to respect that old adage about disagreeing with others’ views whilst defending to the death their right to hold and express them.

    Yeh, it is simply annoying views in the murder of Van Gogh by the Muslim is “logical” because Van Gogh had provoked the muslim to did so. Where is the moral of being religious exactly? Van Gogh had rights to voice his opinion and his art statement just like the rest of citizens in the Netherlands. This is not about provoking, it is about delivering to public of different perspective with totally different angle in viewing and criticising religions. Everybody is free to accept it, challenge it, debate it, argue it or simply ignore it but NOT murder who voicing it!

    If these criticisms towards Muslims sound provoking, how about the capital punishment for homosexuality in muslim countries like currently in Afghanistan, Iran, Mauritania, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, and Yemen? How provoking could that be to the muslims in justifying that homosexuality as disgusting act and it is legal to kill gays. I am not yet pointing out of religious phrases that contains provocation to hate certain groups of people and even women.

    Haahh…I wonder what will happened next if Wilder’s movie “Fitna” is released…

Comment on “Treason of the Intellectuals”.

RSS
RSS feed
Email

Copyright Indonesia Matters 2006-18
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Contact