Ahmadiyya

Jan 16th, 2008, in News & Issues, by Patung

View the original article here.

195 Comments on “Ahmadiyya”

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Mrs Salim Says:
June 11th, 2008 at 7:57 pm
Muslims, who are Muslims? Does Islam allows ANYONE to interfere in others personnel belief? Does Islam allows any so called MUSLIMS to martyred Mosques? Does ever any Ahmadi Muslim created sense of fear in the country? Did they start beating up or even killing people due to their believes? What is happening to the Muslim nation? They are creating hell themselves in this life and the life after death. I only want to request President to make a fair decision and protect his people. As a Muslim or even as a human being, we protect animals so they are not harmed, but YOUR PEOPLE ARE AFRAID OF LIVING IN YOUR COUNTRY, PLEASE GIVE THEM SECURITY!

Miss Rufo Basheeruddin: You have VERY lack to information about Ahmadiyya Muslim Community.
I don’t want to start preaching the details stuff, but to let people understand the morals and ethics of being a human and their rights. Islam doesn’t not allow anyone to deny ones believe. Holy Prophet SAW let people from all cultures to worship in the Holy Kaba’a. That was his level, you, me and nothing in comparison to him. Just remember that!
Shloka Says:
June 11th, 2008 at 11:31 pm
@ Mrs Saleem,
The Holy Prophet did smash 360 idols in Mecca, when he attacked Mecca with his troop of followers from Medina so he denied the polytheists and idolaters their belief. And even today in the Prophet’s land, Saudi Arabia there are no churches\temples, though there are a significant number of Christian and Hindu guest workers. And in Saudi and Yemen, Arab lands who are able to read the Koran in their mother tongue unlike Indonesians, leaving Islam for another faith is punishable with death.
Miss Rufo Basheeruddin Says:
June 12th, 2008 at 12:48 am
Mrs. Saleem

Muslims, who are Muslims? Does Islam allows ANYONE to interfere in others personnel belief?

You are taking yur official line, i.e anyone who does not believe Mirza qadiani and has not taken his oath of allegiance ( bais) is KAFIR and outside islam. Before you raise finger at MUSLIMS, please READ your own books. Its mentioned on your official website too. Mirza ghulam and his son your Musleh Moud Mirza Basheerudin Mahmood DECLARED EVERYONE KAFIR even those who have not heard name of Mirza qadiani. ( Read http://www.alislam.org and then read books by Mirza Basheruddin and read about SPLIT). Your false prophet interfered with everyone’s faith 100 years ago….:):)

Does Islam allows any so called MUSLIMS to martyred Mosques? Does ever any Ahmadi Muslim created sense of fear in the country?

You have actually talking of two things and candidly attacking Islamor Muslims. Let us be clear, ISLAM DOES NOT TEACH US VOILANCE AND DESTRUCTION. Your false nabi declared Jihad haram in support of English Sarkar. I have given refrences on page 5.
What you Qadianis do, is that you confuse voilance with JIHAD and align yourselves with enmies of Islam who do exactly the same.

Your second comment is about DOES any ahmedi create sense of fear…. You have no knowledge of your jmaat’s history and present. In time of your Khalifa 2, his very close sahabi ” Fakhruddin Multni was killed… go figure why was that…. AbdulKarim Munbahla walay….what happened to them…. and in general, any qadiani who lived in RABWA and who are living in Rabwa LIVE UNDER CONSTANT FEAR and threats of social boycotts. You have a very limited power in Rabwa but the atrocities comitted by your jamaat is unbelievanble, learn more about jamaat before passing comments.

I don’t want to start preaching the details stuff, but to let people understand the morals and ethics of being a human and their rights. Islam doesn’t not allow anyone to deny ones believe

You make me laugh. The worst kind of operssion is committed by Ahmadi khalifa on its members. Do you not know that IF ANYONE LEAVES YOUR JAMAAT, HE / SHE WILL BE COMPLETELY BOYCOTTED. IF SHE IS MARRAYING ANYONE OUTSIDE AHMADIYA, HER FAMILY WILL BE FORCED TO DISOWN HER, IF THE FAMILY DOES NOT DO THAT, THE FAMILY WILL BE BANNED AND FROM JAMAAT AND BOYCOTTED.

IF ALREADY MARRIED HE / SHE WILL BE SEPARATED FROM THE SPOUSE AT THE OFFICIAL INSTRUCTIONS.

Be honest, I don’t know where you live but i am sure you will be aware of such forced separations, bans and boycotts…. aren’t you???

READ MIRZA’S BOOKS TO KNOW HIM. SEE HIS TRUE FACE, READ HIS BOOKS.
Shloka Says:
June 12th, 2008 at 9:35 am
@ Miss Rufo Basheeruddin,

While I don’t know whether the Ahmadiyya deserve to be called Muslims or not, but they certainly don’t deserve to be banned. However many of the allegations you put against Ahmadiyya can just as easily be put against Muslims. Please will you read your own Koran too? Just like Prophet Mohammed(PBUH) declared everyone Kaffir who does not follow Islam, Mirza Ghulam did the same. While grudging tolerance was shown to Jews and Christians, no such tolerance to idolaters. The Muslims took their word for idols from Buddha “But” and idolaters were called ” but parast” and idol breakers ” but shian.Just like non Ahmadiyya’s call Mirza a fake Prophet, non Muslims at four fifths of the world’s population call Mohammed a fake Prophet. Mohammed interfered with everyone’s faith in Mecca too, but 1400 years ago instead of 100 years ago. While those who embraced Islam were spared, the ones who wanted to stick to idolatry were killed and their idols smashed. Similar to Indonesia today, where Ahmadiyya’s willing to renounce Mirza Ghulam as Prophet are spared, those who still claim he’s a Prophet will be arrested.
Atrocities committed by Ahmadiyyas are “unbelievable” those committed by Muslims are worse. Two terrorist attacks on Bali, forced conversions of Christians etc.

Islam does teach violence and destruction. Mohammed destroyed Mecca’s idols. Muslim terrorists like Al Queda, Lashkar-e-Toeba, Jameeh Islamiah etc all believe Jihad means violence, and they carry out violence on a global scale- U.S., Britain, France, Spain, India, Thailand- far more in terms of geographical area than Ahmadiyyas.

As for Ahmadiyyas marrying non Ahmadis being boycotted, thats’ true for Muslims too. A Muslim man may marry a Christian or Jewish woman, a Muslim woman can only marry a Muslim man. Obviously, the man’s religion is generally inherited by his children, so a Muslim woman marrying a non Muslim will be disowned too. That’s what the Koran says. Did you know that in Arab Muslim nations(wo can read the Koran in their mother tongue, unlike Indos) like Jordan and Syria, a woman can be legally killed in a honor killing for shaming her family, improper sexual conduct or marrying a non Muslim
As for Islam not teaching violence and destruction, the following verses clearly show otherwise. Muslim scholars have developed a practice of abrogation, where peaceful verses are cancelled out by belligerent ones.

Muslims should muster all their power and might, including steeds of war (tanks, planes, missiles…) to strike terror in the hearts of the unbelievers (by killing them—ibn Abbas).

47:4 When the believers meet the unbelievers they should smite at unbelievers’ necks (when you fight against them, cut them down totally with your swords—ibn Kathir).

8:39 Fight until there are no more unbelievers (non-Muslims) and tumult (this verse overrides all other verses on fighting the infidels, including the Jews and the Christians); if they accept Islam then leave them alone.
Miss Rufo Bashiruddeen Says:
June 12th, 2008 at 12:23 pm
shloka

This thread is about ahmadiya and their beliefs. You sound like a qadiani or ex qadiani with a very twisted mind and NO PEACE…;);) You seem to have found true face of Mirza Ghulam and have disowned him, and now you don’t know what you believe in… or do you? tell us what you believe in ?

I will not engage in any debate on Islam, as its not my objective nor this thread is about Islam. You can spread lies and hate at your own will. I thought I ignore you completely because you are just another FOUL mouth bad mouthing Islam…..( what else a liar can do??;);)

But, for the benefit of readers, I will only add Quranic verses IN FULL which you quoted here out of context, which shows your develish charector;);) nevermind, here is the Quarnic translations:

47:1 Those who reject Allah and hinder (men) from the Path of Allah,- their deeds will Allah render astray
47:2 But those who believe and work deeds of righteousness, and believe in the (Revelation) sent down to Muhammad – for it is the Truth from their Lord,- He will remove from them their ills and improve their condition.
47:3 This because those who reject Allah follow vanities, while those who believe follow the Truth from their Lord: Thus does Allah set forth for men their lessons by similitudes.
47:4 Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens. Thus (are ye commanded): but if it had been Allah’s Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of Allah,- He will never let their deeds be lost
47:5 Soon will He guide them and improve their condition,

8:36 The Unbelievers spend their wealth to hinder (man) from the path of Allah, and so will they continue to spend; but in the end they will have (only) regrets and sighs; at length they will be overcome: and the Unbelievers will be gathered together to Hell;-
8:37 In order that Allah may separate the impure from the pure, put the impure, one on another, heap them together, and cast them into Hell. They will be the ones to have lost.
8:38 Say to the Unbelievers, if (now) they desist (from Unbelief), their past would be forgiven them; but if they persist, the punishment of those before them is already (a matter of warning for them).
8:39 And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah altogether and everywhere; but if they cease, verily Allah doth see all that they do.
Mrs Salim Says:
June 12th, 2008 at 1:55 pm
The Holy Prophet did smash 360 idols in Mecca, when he attacked Mecca with his troop of followers from Medina so he denied the polytheists and idolaters their belief. And even today in the Prophet’s land, Saudi Arabia there are no churches\temples, though there are a significant number of Christian and Hindu guest workers. And in Saudi and Yemen, Arab lands who are able to read the Koran in their mother tongue unlike Indonesians, leaving Islam for another faith is punishable with death.

Idols were smashed, not people. No Idol was allowd inside Kaba’a, never stopped people from comming in. Which Islam is this to kill people if they dont follow your relegion? Here you are talking what has been said by non Muslims to attack on Islam. In the days of Holy Prophet SAW, slaves were protected, regardless of colour and relegion. This Islam is made by people who allows other to attack on Islam.
Mecca and Medina was always open for everyone during Holy Prophet SAW’s days. I dont know what world we are living in now.
djoko Says:
June 12th, 2008 at 2:05 pm
@ Shloka

If you can read Indonesian, I highly suggest you download a copy of Quraish Shihab’s book ‘Ayat-Ayat Fitna’, as I recognise some of the verses you quoted there as being ones which Geert Wilders used in his video about the Qur’an as well. Plucking verses out of thin air doesn’t really say much as you need to consider the rest of the verses both before and after, the particular context said verse was revealed in (most of the time verses were revealed in response to specific historic events), as well as the context of the verse with regards to broader Islamic teachings.

Some brief rundowns of what Quraish Shihab says about some of the verses you posted

8:60 (the one about striking terror and so on)
- revealed in response to a group breaking its treaty with the Muslim community. Essentially telling the Muslim community that if someone breaks a treaty with you to prepare for the possibility of war. The way Quraish Shihab has interpreted it as well is that the ‘terror’ referred to here is intended as a deterrent effect, by amassing a show of arms such that the party which has broken its treaty will not go ahead with plans to attack. To put it in perspective its like the US, which in itself is not a warlike or belligerent nation, but nonetheless has developed a large and strong fighting force such that no country would dare think of attacking it.

47:4 (actually in the Wilders version it was even more graphic, being translated as ‘a bloodbath’ rather than ‘cutting off the head’)
- Once again revealed in response to events in the conflict between the Muslim community and the pagans in Mecca. The essence of the verse here is to disable an enemy so they can’t fight any more. Atskhantumuhum (the term here) is derived from the word atskhana which is used to describe something which is heavy, dense such that it is difficult to move or be moved. Thus the idea here is to completely disable an opposing force, to make it unable to ‘move’ or fight in this case. Of course one way of doing this is by annihilating another army, but as modern warfare has shown, cutting off an army’s supply lines and communications can force them in to mass surrender, achieving the same result. As Rufo pointed out, much like Wilders, you cut off other verses there which actually further explain the situation, as the first verse there refers to the Meccans who were not allowing Muslims to practice their faith. Here, the ‘unbelievers’ being referred to are not in a general sense, but very much those Pagan Meccans who were preventing Muslims from practicing their faith (its just a shame that the Muslim community nowadays doesn’t reflect more deeply on its history in this regard).

8:39

This was one of the verses giving Muslims the green light to defend themselves, after having being kicked around the ground for going on thirteen years (according to Shihab). Rather than saying this verse abrogates all other verses to do with non-Muslims, he actually goes to great length to understand it through several other verses, in particular saying that the idea is to fight until order and respect for ‘God’s laws’ is established (rather than converting to Islam as such). As God’s laws also include commandments for religion to not be forced on others, as well as that Muslims should respect followers or other religions (lakum dinukum waliyadin – to you your religion, to me mine), this hardly means that Islam has to rule over the world. As this verse is also related to the Muslim community’s conflict with the Pagans in Mecca, it is seen in the light of resisting an oppressive force which had been chasing and harrassing them even after they fled from Mecca (the Hijriyah). Fighting to ‘restore obedience to God’s law’ then is to return the right of Muslims to practice their religion in peace, not necessarily to bring about Islamic supremacy throughout the entire world (God only knows, Muhammad mightn’t have been too sure if he was even going to be able to return to Mecca by that stage!).

The above are more or less my paraphrasing of some of the arguments put forth by Quraish Shihab. I enjoyed reading the book, you can download it at lentera hati for free, though I think some people have uploaded copies of it as well around the place.

You just mentioned the abrogation thing there and I know it gets a run from time to time when it comes to verses about war and so on, but when you take the text as its meant to be – as a whole – where there is no canceling going on, as Shihab has done, you get a better picture of what Islam really does have to say on a particular topic.

Sorry for the long post, I just get a bit worried when people throw up supposedly self-contained verses and more or less end with a Q.E.D. Its a whole lot more complex than that.
Mrs Salim Says:
June 12th, 2008 at 2:56 pm
you are taking yur official line, i.e anyone who does not believe Mirza qadiani and has not taken his oath of allegiance ( bais) is KAFIR and outside islam.

Well, thats what all sects in Islam say, either they are Sunni, Shia, Wahabi, or anyone else. So what make US different?

Its mentioned on your official website too. Mirza ghulam and his son your Musleh Moud Mirza Basheerudin Mahmood DECLARED EVERYONE KAFIR even those who have not heard name of Mirza qadiani

Thats what your Sect say too, don’t they? I think it’s a good idea to read books by your wn writers too, whilst comparing.

Or let me help you, you might not know them.:) If you can Read Alislam.org then I am sure you can read these too.

1: Khutbaat-e-Tayyab by Qari Muhammad Tayyab Sahib <uhtimim Darul Aloom Dayoband. And for your more information he was also known as Hakeem-ul-Islam….
2: Taleemat-e-Islam and Massiehi Aqwam

Your false prophet interfered with everyone’s faith 100 years ago….:):)

Here let me clear you one thing Miss Basheeruddin.
Read Bukhari Kitab-ul tafseer Sura Al Jumma: you will know what Holy Prophet SAW said about advent of Imam Mehdi AS.

Kitab-ul Reqaq chapter Sawaab,HazalUmmat:
Holy Prophet SAW said, “ My nation is like a rain about which I don’t know first part is the best or the last.”First is the time of Holy Prophet SAW, and last is the time of Imam Mehdi as. ….Means you are in none of them,..

Baharal Anwar Book 13 page 17
Holy Prophet SAW announced acceptance of Maud, his accecptance and rejection will be his rejection….so I guess you are in second category.

HijajulKarama page 351- witten by Nawab Muhammad Siddique Hasan Khan mutba shah jahan bhopaal
Holy Prophet SAW said, “who rejected Imam Mehdi as has commeted a Kufr.” So what are doing??? Insted of calling Ahmadies Kafir???? First look in your own collar.
Hadhrat Muhammad Ibn-e-Sereen RA writes about Imam Mehdi AS.”There will be one Khalifa in this Umma who will be better than Hadhrat Abbu Bakar and Umar. He said, its close that he might be higher in rank from some Prophets.” Only Prophet can be better than a Propet, not any ordinary man.

Hadhrat Imam Baqir AS writes. “When Imam mehdi will come, he will announced, O people, if anyone among you wants to see Ibrahim (as) and Ismail (as) then listen I am Ibrahim and Ismail.And if anyone among you wants to see Mosa and Yosha then listen I am Mosa and Yosha. If anyone wants to see Isaa and Shamoon then listen I am Isaa and Shamoon. If anyone among you want to see Hadhra Mohammad Mustafa SAW and Ameer-ul-momeneen (Hadhra Ali) then listen I am Muhamad Mustafa (SAW) and Ameer-ulMomeneen.”

Hadhrat Imam Abrul Razzak Qashani RA writes, “ In later days which Iamam Mehdi will come will be under Shariah of Hadhrat Muhammad SAW and in knowledge and reality he all Prophets and Aaoliyaa will be under his command except Hadhrat Muhammad SAW.”.

What Islam are you following dear? Do you any history of Islam? I would advise you to start visiting library. About your comment in British Gov. I will guide you later as I think it’s already too much for you.
Mrs Salim Says:
June 12th, 2008 at 3:00 pm
So Sad to know that you guys cant follow even ONE QURAN!!!! Here you are arguing about few verses of the Holy Quran… Why is that? Is it different? REALLY….WHY? I THOUGHT QURAN IS THE BOOK, WHICH WILL NEVER CHANGE… WHY IS DIFFERENT IN YOUR SECT?!!!
Shloka Says:
June 12th, 2008 at 9:24 pm
@ Djoko,

Phew, long post indeed.I can’t read Indonesian at all. I am pretty good technologically so I can translate it(probably). Geert Wilders film is a bogus rant and has nothing useful to spread except hate and possible violence. In fact he’s probably looking out for Muslims to create violence\terrorism post his film so that he can indeed prove Islam is violent. Believe me, if I was Dutch Prime Minister or someone with similar power I would ban it. But you know the West has many such critics of Christianity making rants on Christianity as well. I suggest you read Sam Harris, ” The End of Faith” and “Letters to a Christian Nation” or Richard Dawkins, ” The God Delusion.” As for satires, the West has made a “Monty Python, Search for the Holy Grail” a ridiculous and rib tickling satire on Christianity long before it made cartoons on Mohammed. Indeed Sam Harris has a popular website, appears freely in public and received not a single death threat. So you see, the West, long before attacking or making fun of Islam, has criticized and laughed at Christianity. But when a Theo Van Gogh from Wilders country gets murdered for attacking Islam, when the West terribly enjoys a ” The Da Vinci Code” but a Salman Rushdie gets death threats for writing “Satanic Verses” the same West is perplexed, and then concludes that Islam must be a uniquely intolerant faith. It looks for reasons for that intolerance and finds these war like verses. Since you mentioned reading Indo, I did translate the “Insiden Monas…” thread on IM and found quite a few comments of “destroy polytheism.” As a polytheist, I sure found those comments disturbing. Have you read those comments on “Insiden Monas…”?

BTW, I think that Muslims have shown remarkable restraint in the case of Wilders film. Now, if only Indos( one of the most tolerant Muslim nations) hadn’t semi banned Ahmadiyya, if a bomb hadn’t hit Pakistan’s Danish Embassy and if Muslim terrorists hadn’t bombed Jaipur( India’s most popular tourist site which has never hurt Muslims and which isn’t a war zone) all recently I might change my mind about Muslims. Regarding abrogation “None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah hath power over all things?” (Qur’an 2:106).

Another still-influential Qur’an commentator, Ibn Kathir (1301-1372) quotes an earlier authority, Ad-Dahhak bin Muzahim, to establish that the Verse of the Sword, sura 9:5 (“slay the unbelievers wherever you find them”) “abrogated every agreement of peace between the Prophet and any idolater, every treaty, and every term.” He adds from another authority: “No idolater had any more treaty or promise of safety ever since Surah Bara’ah was revealed.” And yet another early commentator, Ibn Juzayy (d. 1340) agrees that one of this verse’s functions is “abrogating every peace treaty in the Qur’an.”

The Pakistani Brigadier S. K. Malik’s 1979 book The Qur’anic Concept of War (a book that made its way to the American mujahedin Jeffrey Leon Battle and October Martinique Lewis, and which carried a glowing endorsement from Pakistan’s then-future President Muhammad Zia-ul-Haq, who said that it explained “the ONLY pattern of war” that a Muslim country could legitimately wage) delineates the same stages in the Qur’anic teaching about jihad: “The Muslim migration to Medina brought in its wake events and decisions of far-reaching significance and consequence for them. While in Mecca, they had neither been proclaimed an Ummah [community] nor were they granted the permission to take up arms against their oppressors. In Medina, a divine revelation proclaimed them an ‘Ummah’ and granted them the permission to take up arms against their oppressors. The permission was soon afterwards converted into a divine command making war a religious obligation for the faithful.”

So you see, the idea of abrogation is definitely there among some muslim ustadz. Of course, since Islam doesn’t have a Pope, one can interpret it anyway one likes. That’s good.However Confucianism, Buddhism, Christian sects like Baptists don’t have a Pope either. A disproportionate amount of women oppressing, death penalty for apostates type theocracies, international terrorists etc seem to believe Islam justifies their actions.

I don’t have a determination to hate Islam or Prophet Mohammed(PBUH). If Prophet Mohammed’s followers are tolerant, I’ll believe what the sites you’ve posted on your threads say about him. If they are violent, they blemish his reputation far more than Danish cartoons did. I’ll believe Ali Sina and his Faith Freedom then.
Shloka Says:
June 13th, 2008 at 12:00 am
@ Miss Rufo Bashiruddin,

I know this thread is about Ahmadiyya, you attacked Ahmadiyya and I defended them. You slandered them, I tried to show that those things which you say against them can be said against Islam as well. You asked me about my faith, does it matter? What if I tell you I was a Qadiani and have now switched to worshipping Santa Claus. No kidding, I have found my true God in Santa and his reindeers. I have bought a beautiful soft toy of Santa and now worship before it. I have realised that Koran, Ahmadiyya sects all have violence. The Muslims following Koran cause terrorism and kill non believers. The Qadianis disown those who forsake or marry outside the Ahmadiyya sect. But parents give gifts to children if they believe in Santa. If children stop believing in Santa, they don’t get gifts for Christmas any more. So Santa is not as cruel as Islam or Ahmadiyya . Just a little. The verses of the Koran you quoted tell me 47:4 Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom… and as you yourself said, if an Ahmadiyya leaves the jamaat she\he will be boycotted. But if one child stops believing in Santa others will still be friendly with him. I have not lost peace, I’ve finally found peace.

You call me a foul mouth, a devilish character, but just re read the verses you quoted. Non believers in Hell, fight kill and destroy them… they are far more violent than anything I ever said. So a person will be killed\burn in Hell for simply disbelieving not for any crimes like stealing, killing, raping etc and I have to worship such a cruel God? Accept Santa Claus before its too late, he’ll come in a chariot drawn by reindeers from the North Pole to give you presents! You’ll be saved from cruel Allah who burns unbelievers in Hell! Allah is such a jealous God, can’t tolerate people not accepting him!

@ Mrs. Saleem

So whats’ so good about smashing idols. People had great faith in idols, like you have faith in Koran and the mosques. Smashing the Meccans idols for them is equivalent to tearing the pages of the Koran, or destroying mosques for you. Holy Prophet SAW allowed all people to worship inside Kaaba regardless of culture but only after accepting Islam. How would you feel if Christians smashed Kaaba, erected a cross in its place, and allowed all Muslims regardless of cultures to worship there if they converted to Christianity?Otherwise, they’d be attacked and killed. You’d be outraged, and want revenge on Christians, won’t you? I imagine the idolaters of Mecca felt exactly the same, but were too powerless to do anything, as Holy Prophet and his army from Medina were too powerful.The people who worshipped idols were afraid of living in Mecca during the Prophet’s time,just as the Ahmadiyyas are afraid now!As for slaves being protected, slavery is a bad thing too. Did you know, King Cyrus the Great of Iran, 1000 years before Mohammed(PBUH) banned slavery in his Kingdom. Muslim countries were the last to ban slavery, Saudi arabia banned it in 1962, 100 years after U.S.A. Niger, Mauritania banned it in 1990’s.
Lairedion Says:
June 13th, 2008 at 12:11 am
To all Muslims eschewing idolatry. What are you praying too 5 times a day? A moonstone in Mecca! Sounds like idolatry to me…
Mrs Salim Says:
June 13th, 2008 at 12:45 am
@ Shluka
No people from all relegion were allowed to pray in Kaba’a. But Idol means, man made and how can a man made thing can give you sunshine, rain, day, night, sea, earth, etc.
Man made thing cant change seasons. In Islam Idols are haram, even if you love someone too much comes in this category. If Christians have Cross and Idols of Hadhrat Maryam and Hadhrat Issa as, they were never existed during thier lives…or did Hadhrat Isaa as asked his followers to start preeching Idols? Hindus, it is again the same case, Hadhrat Kishna as never allowed anyone to bow infront of an Idol. It is the same in all.
Slavery was banned during the period of Hadhrat Muhammad saw. Muslims used to free slaves with their ability. One of the Khalifa used to free one slave every month. If people started again, you cant blame this on Islam. Things happening in Europe or USA started now but any matter of life you name it was banned during the time of Holy Prophet SAW. again righteous people followd it and disbelivers made mess of the relegion, such like others. take an example of the Holy Bible, people read it but it is not origional. So how can one believe in it? People were never afraid to live in Medina or Mecca. and Ahmadies, who said this to you are afraid??? Let me asure you this, there is not a single Ahmadi afraid from anyone EXCEPT Allah.

@Lairedion
In Islam, yes we are suppose to pray five times a day. But let me tell you one thing, No one prays directly towards Kaba’a, it is in a slight angle, and it was always like this, to avoid Idolatry. :> Have you ever heard what exectly we read in our prayers? If not, have a read through it and you will understand. It is a direct relationship of one person to his/her God.
Lairedion Says:
June 13th, 2008 at 12:54 am
Mrs Simsalabim said:

In Islam, yes we are suppose to pray five times a day. But let me tell you one thing, No one prays directly towards Kaba’a, it is in a slight angle, and it was always like this, to avoid Idolatry

LOL, brilliant stuff! And how many degrees would this angle be? I’m dying to know so I can tell my wife’s granny…
Shloka Says:
June 13th, 2008 at 10:07 am
@ Mrs. Salim,
Hadrat Isa and Hadrat Krishna never destroyed anyone’s idols. Hadrat Isa lived in the Roman Empire, and the Romans worshipped many idols. While Jesus preached his message, he never forced the Romans or Jews to accept it by destroying their idols. The Buddha lived in India at a time when Indians worshipped many idols. He was a Prince, he could have assembled an army with greater ease than Mohammed to destroy idols, but he chose not to do so. He simply preached his message, it was upto people to accept or reject it. And you say an idol cannot give you sunshine, rain etc as it is man made. But how can you prove that Allah, who requires people to pray at a slight angle to Kaaba 5 times a day, isn’t man made as well?Why would the Creator of the Universe give out such precise instructions of five times\ angles etc? Surely any heartfelt prayer, however its made facing or reach Hin and he would answer it? Why would an all powerful God be so jealous of mere man made idols that he would require them to be destroyed? After all, prayer before non existant Gods is like adultery with a non existent partner. While monotheism has existed for merely 3000 years, idols of pregnant Mother Goddesses found in caves 25000 years old. The Ancient Egyptians who built the beautiful Pyramids, the Ancient Mesopotemians, Greeks were all idolaters. And these polytheistic faiths were more tolerant too, they didn’t kill non believers or persecute other religions. Nobody has seen Allah, similarly nobody has seen whether Gods resembling these idols exist in Heaven or not. Similarly superstitions are not reduced in monotheism, only concentrated in one God. Idols in heaven seem like superstition to you, similarly, an angel coming to illiterate Mohammed in a cave and preaching him laws about inheritance, marriage, divorce etc sound equally absurd and illogical to me. At least the Greek epics of Illiad and Oddyssey are more interesting.

And finally if Allah had existed it would be enough for Him\Her to write a few letters in fire across the sky so that all 7 billion people on Earth would have no more doubts of his existence. Or he could appear in the Stadium during Football World Cup. Surely he’s powerful enough to do that rather than appearing to messengers like Mohamed or Ghulam Mirza whom most people in the world don’t accept.

Who said Ahmadis are afraid?You wrote in a previous post to the President,”YOUR PEOPLE ARE AFRAID OF LIVING IN YOUR COUNTRY, PLEASE GIVE THEM SECURITY”
Mrs Salim Says:
June 13th, 2008 at 11:06 am
@ Mr whatever your name is, this show your level of morality to Call people with funny names. I think you stick this to yourself!!! So for further conversation I would not like to talk to you!!!!

about prayer, I already asked you, if you dont know the prayer then listen it first then talk to me, but ignorance is still there.

Let me tell you one thing, Every single person in this mankind DO believe in the existance of One Powerful bing, and even if they dont say in thier everyday life but see them when they are having trouble.

All Prophets you have mentioned were for one tribe or few tribes, but Prophet Muhammad SAW was sent for ALL. That is the difference.

Man created football so they should sort it out, YOU CAN MAKE FUN OF GOD VERY NICELY.

When you are living in the place majority animals then you go and seek help from the high authorities. One dont start asking animals to become human, because they are already like that. That comment was a reaction of feeling the situation of Ahmadies living in Indonesia.
Lairedion Says:
June 13th, 2008 at 12:17 pm
Mrs Salim,

I’m not interested in your prayers, nor am I interested in the question if God exists. I don’t know and I don’t care. I put no stock in religion. What I consider “holy” or “divine” is striving for righteousness, goodness and protecting the ones who cannot protect themselves, be it animals, humans or flora. This is an ongoing process and I’ll be the first to admit I’m struggling, after all I’m human hence not perfect. The decisions I make every day will determine if I’m a good man or not. I’m not a coward like all those believers pointing to the Big Man in the Sky all the time and walking away from their own responsibility while prostrating themselves in all kinds of useless rituals.

A hard fact to swallow for those who base their lives on the notion “I’m right and the others are wrong”.

So what’s the angle?
Shloka Says:
June 13th, 2008 at 9:46 pm
@ Mrs. Salim,

I think you wanted to address both Lairedion and me. You say Prophet Mohammed(PBUH) is for all tribes, but the Christians who are far greater in number than Muslims say Prophet Jesus is for all mankind and Mohammed is an imposter. And who says I don’t believe in God? I told you, I believe in Santa Claus.

PROOFS FOR ALLAH VS. PROOFS FOR SANTA CLAUS
1>One billion people believe in Allah. All the children of the world believe in Santa Claus . They are more than one billion.
2>The believers in Allah don’t have pure hearts. Many of them are terrorists. The believers in Santa have pure hearts.
3>The believers in Allah give more importance to faith than to reason. ditto
4>The religion of Allah makes people angry terrorists, causes death and makes many mourn. The religion of Santa gives everyone presents and makes everyone happy.
5>Allah testified to his own truth in his revealed book sent to his messenger. I have received a book of revelation from Santa Claus who testified to his own truth also and he said there is no doubt in it.
6>If you don’t believe in Allah he will send you to his hell where you will be burned. Allah is very cruel. If you don’t believe in Santa Claus, you won’t get any presents for Christmas. Santa Claus is not as cruel as Allah. Just a little.
7> Allah discriminates between boys and girls. He says women will get half the inheritance of her brother. Santa gives nice presents to both boys and girls.
8> Allah wants his followers to destroy others idols and temples. He’s very jealous. Santa’s followers also believe in others like Superman, Spiderman, Little Mermaid etc. Santa is not jealous.
9> Allah is obsessed with virgins. He says male martyrs will get 72 virgins in Heaven. Santa doesn’t care about virgins. He probably doesn’t even know what virgins are.

SEE MY SANTA IS BETTER THAN ALLAH!
Aluang Anak Bayang Says:
June 14th, 2008 at 12:10 am
Assamualaikum Mrs Salim,

Be strong. I am with you. Don’t let these infidels change your mind about Allah SWT. Whether they like Muslims or not, they are breathing in Allah’s air this very seconds.

Wasalam.
Miss Rufo Bashiruddeen Says:
June 14th, 2008 at 10:38 am
Mrs. salim and Lairidion

We don’t worship Kaaba, we face towards Kaaba, I wonder what is the source of Mrs. salim’s comment…. may be her profit ghulam qadiani gave that reason ( a slight angle). Can she give us a refernce or source of that revealation…
Lairidion, don’t draw any conclusions, qadianis ahave nothing to with Islam. Just to help you with direction of Kaaba ( how Muslims face that), please have a look at the given link.

http://www.paktubevideos.com/ind…ZAlLtbGSdM
Miss Rufo Bashiruddeen Says:
June 14th, 2008 at 10:42 am
Lairdion

I donno why that link did not work. Let me try again..

http://www.paktubevideos.com/index.php?playvideo=uZAlLtbGSdM

I hope it works this time.
Miss Rufo Bashiruddeen Says:
June 14th, 2008 at 12:56 pm
Mrs. Salim

1: Khutbaat-e-Tayyab by Qari Muhammad Tayyab Sahib <uhtimim Darul Aloom Hadhra …………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………of Hadhrat Muhammad SAW and in knowledge and reality he all Prophets and Aaoliyaa will be under his command except Hadhrat Muhammad SAW.”.

Above is your quote from your post dated 12 June.

This shows how volnerable your logic is. It also shows that you deliberately and dishonestly avoided the AHADITh abouit second coming of Essa Ibn Maryam. The reason is simple, it will expose the false foundation your cult is based on.

First of all, all the quotes that you gave are not an authority for Muslims, These are neither from Quran nor from Ahadith. So Muslims are not boungd by those…

Secondly, even if they are authority or credible, how can you just imply that Imam Mehdi that is spoken of in those narrations is Mirza Ghulam qadiani…. His charactor is below an ordinary decent human being…What is your evidence that Mirza is that Imam Mahdi…. And if the faith of all Muslims is relying on Imam Mahdi, why is he not foretold in Quran ??

Now let me show yopu a glimpse of Mirza qadiani’s charactor.

1- “God named me Mary in the third volume of Braheen-e-Ahmadiyya. I was nurtured for two years as Mary and was raised in a womanly seclusion. Then, the spirit of Jesus was breathed into me just as was done with Mary. Hence, I was considered to be pregnant in a metaphorical manner. After a period of several months, not exceeding ten, I was made Jesus out of Mary by the revelation embodied in the last part of the fourth volume of Braheen-e-Ahmadiyya; and thus, I became Jesus, son of Mary. But, God did not inform me of this secret at that time.”

(Kashti-i-Nuh, Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 19, P. 50; Kashti-i-Nuh, P. 46-47)
So Mirza mama got pragnent, but wait a minute, he gave birth to himself??? where does Imam Mahdi fit in?

2- ” Remember that intensity that a man gets during Salat and remembrance of god that gives rise to inspiration and enjoyment or one feels pleasure. This is not evidence that this man has a real connection with merciful God, similarly if semen enters vagina and gives pleasure too; this will not be taken as the semen has been connected with uterus (conceived), rather there are separate signs and symptoms for that. So, intently remembering God which in other words can be called intensity is similar to the condition of semen that is dropped in the vagina.”

Baraheen Ahmediya, vol. 5 p. 192 in RK vol. 21 page 192

3- ” Man is compelled by many reasons to have more than one wife. For example if a man’s wife, due to age or disease becomes ugly, man’s sexual powers on which woman depends on, becomes dysfunctional or suspended. But if a man is ugly then it does not cause any harm to woman because the man has the key of action and it is in hand of man to satisfy his woman. But if man has faulty or less sexual power then according to Quranic command, woman can get divorce and IF MAN IS CAPABLE OF SATISFYING HER FULLY then woman cannot object that why you brought another wife. Because woman cannot be responsible and satisfy man’s daily needs, therefore man’s right to get a second wife remains intact. ”

RK v 5, ain kam islam page 282- Pdf 284 – 663

This is just the tip of the iceberg. The Mirza books are full of such hocus pocus. And you call him a NABI / Marry, Promised Messiah, Krishnan etc etc….

And I HAVE ALREADY TOLD YOU ALL THE REAL OBJECTIVE BEHIND HIS ATTEPT TO DECLARE JIHAD AS ABROGATED. GO TO PAGE 5 OF THIS FORUM AND READ MY POST WITH REFERNCES AND TRANSLATIONS OF MIRZA’S OWN BOOKS.

FOR MORE,

http://thecult.info/blog/
http://thecult.info/forum
Shloka Says:
June 14th, 2008 at 2:31 pm
@ Miss Rufo Basheeruddin,

So whats’ so great in facing towards Kaaba? The All Compassionate All Merciful Allah should be able to hear your prayers whichever direction you face, shouldn’t He? Or does the Kaaba act as a kind of telephone, and your prayers reach Allah through it?

You say Mirza Ghulam’s character is below an ordinary human being, I say the same about Mohammed. Marrying 9 year olds, raping women like Raihana Bint Amr right after killing her husband and father, terrorizing people into accepting his faith, he himself said,”Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah’s Apostle said, “I have been sent with the shortest expressions bearing the widest meanings, and I HAVE BEEN MADE VICTORIOUS WITH TERROR (cast in the hearts of the enemy), and while I was sleeping, the keys of the treasures of the world were brought to me and put in my hand.” Abu Huraira added: Allah’s Apostle has left the world and now you, people, are bringing out those treasures (i.e. the Prophet did not benefit by them).

As for polygamy, Mohammed allowed his followers four wives too. And he also allowed his followers ” women their right hand possesses” that war booty in addition to four wives.

Jesus claimed that he was the Son of God, but Mohammed made up that he was never crucified and Mohammed is the last Prophet.

I think Ahmadiyya should not be banned, because even though Mirza Ghulam’s claims maybe absurd and illogical, Mohammed’s claims are much worse. At least, Mirza Ghulam never raped anyone, marry his daughter in law, or loot other tribes.
dewaratugedeanom Says:
June 14th, 2008 at 3:13 pm
@ Shloka

You remind me of Dolores Ibárruri Gómez, la Pasionaria, from the Spanish Civil War, not because of her political convictions, but for her style and ardour.
This is meant as a compliment. Just in case.
Lairedion Says:
June 14th, 2008 at 3:59 pm
Miss Rufo Basheeruddin said:

Lairidion, don’t draw any conclusions, qadianis ahave nothing to with Islam. Just to help you with direction of Kaaba ( how Muslims face that), please have a look at the given link.

LOL, such is the mind of the True Muslim…
Sibte Hussain Says:
June 18th, 2008 at 12:54 pm
If Ahmadiyya are liars there is no need to do anything as liars do not get success. If they are getting suscess they must have truth. Moreover you must check if they are better people then you for mankind then they have the truth.

In the past Kaffirs used to fight against the truth if you are true Muslims you do not need to fight against anyone, if you have truth it will spread specially if you follow it and show example to the world.

In the past truth was always dangerous for Kaffirs and most Kaffirs tried to extinguish the truth by using violence.
John Snider Says:
July 12th, 2008 at 9:05 am
If Ahmadiyya is not truth then then what ie the truth> Ahmadiyya s are most peaceful and loving peope and 100% educated . Most organised. Spread in 190 countries, Have 100 time more success then Christian and Muslims combined in conversion. Of course 1.3 billion Muslims and 2.5 billion christians day and night trying to supress their teaching and truth that Jesus did not fly to the sky in human body and there is no proof and actually he died in Kashmir and his grave is there. Go to Internet site “Tombofjesus.com” to see his grave. All religions are trying to supress truth and fighting against them and still failing on every front. Why because it is Gods plan against Satanic ideas. How can they win against Ahmadiyya as Ahmadiyya is working for humanity, truth and peace and Muslims are using Violence and killing Ahmadiyya that shows their weakness. They have resorted to Violence. They dont know Islam is peace so God is with Ahmadiyya not with extremist and dangerous Muslims.
John Snider Says:
July 16th, 2008 at 5:02 pm
Moslems are lowest people on earth and most uneducated. There beliefs are violance against all religions. I looked carefully Ahmadiyya sect of Islam is the most peaceful Islam rest are extremist, stupid and brainless
Rambutan Says:
July 16th, 2008 at 5:08 pm
Very educated post, Mr Snider.
Qazi Says:
August 5th, 2008 at 5:28 am
The mullah-philes of Indonesia need to get their scum-guzzling faces out of the business of other people’s religious beliefs in the country. Every time they take to the streets to ‘protest’, all they end up doing is telling the world what a bunch of hate-mongering imbeciles they are. The blood and of all the members of the Islamic Defence Front Scum combined isn’t worth half of that of an Ahmadiyya.