Banning Islamic Sects

Jan 7th, 2008, in IM Posts, by

Whether to ban Islamic sects like Ahmadiyah.

After the banning of the sect Al-Qiyadah Al-Islamiyah recently some are clamouring for the much bigger and older sect, Ahmadiyah, to have the same fate.

Banning of Ahmadiyah

The government, or its agencies, is currently debating whether to formally ban the Ahmadiyah sect, its activities, written materials, and teachings. Ahmadiyah was founded in Punjab, India, in 1889 by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, and has about 200,000 followers in Indonesia and some millions worldwide.

The "Tim Pakem" (Pengawas Aliran Kepercayaan Masyarakat, Overseers of the Peoples' Beliefs), part of the Attorney General's office, will hold a meeting on 8th January to begin discussions on the issue. [1]

Umbrellas

A delegation from the Forum Umat Islam (FUI), which is said to be an umbrella organisation for 53 Islamic groups, handed a petition to Hendarman Supandji, the Attorney General, on 3rd January, asking for Ahmadiyah to be banned.

One member of the delegation, Amin Djamaludin, from the Majelis Ulama Indonesia (MUI), says the sect needs to be banned not because it is heretical but because the world leadership of Ahmadiyah intends to make Indonesia their base. He knows this because he read it in editions 12, 13, and 20 of "Al Fadhl International" in the year 2000, apparently a British magazine put out by Ahmadiyah.

But besides that he said the FUI had gathered a lot of proof showing that Ahmadiyah flouted Islam's teachings, specifically in the group's holy book, the Tadzkirah. [2]

If they're not banned then we ask that they just start their own religion [totally outside of Islam].

Another umbrella group, the Aliansi Umat Islam (Alumni) in Bandung, which represents 47 Islamic associations, issued an ultimatum to the government, threatening to bring 40,000 people out onto the streets if Ahmadiyah were not banned by Islamic New Year. [3]

Those in favour of the banning of Ahmadiyah generally state that the government is obliged to put into force the Majelis Ulama Indonesia's (MUI) fatwa against the sect (Nomor 11, 2005 [4]).

Banning the MUI

Adnan Buyung Nasution, a lawyer, former parliamentarian and senior civil servant, and prolific author, said on 22nd December that instead the Clerics' Council, MUI, should be dissolved, because its fatwa against Ahmadiyah had caused the recent violence against the group. [5]

Adnan Buyung Nasution
Adnan Buyung Nasution

On 30th December former president Abdurrahman Wahid (Gus Dur) agreed, saying that the MUI did nothing but issue fatwas, and there were a lot of other more useful Islamic organisations in existence. [6]

But if it can't be disbanded then the current leadership should be changed.

And more recently, on January 7th, the Aliansi Kebangsaan untuk Kebebasan Beragama dan Berkeyakinan (AKKBB) staged a small demonstration outside the Attorney General's office in Jakarta, as well as demos in a number of other cities, calling on the state to defend religious freedom. [7]


46 Comments on “Banning Islamic Sects”

Pages: [1] 2 »

  1. avatar Aluang Anak Bayang says:
    January 7th, 2008 at 11:30 pm

    All Islamic sects should be given a chance to thrive in Indonesia for certain period say 10 years. At the end of this period, we look for the best performing sect in regard to: peaceful existence with other faiths; gender equality issue; tolerant of apostasy; etc. The winning sect will have their interpreted dogma exported to warring Islamic countries.

  2. avatar Goobers says:
    January 8th, 2008 at 12:24 am

    AAB said:

    peaceful existence with other faiths; gender equality issue; tolerant of apostasy; etc.

    HMMMM…. are there any such things in Islam?

  3. avatar perseus says:
    January 8th, 2008 at 5:29 am

    On 30th December former president Abdurrahman Wahid (Gus Dur) agreed, saying that the MUI did nothing but issue fatwas, and there were a lot of other more useful Islamic organisations in existence.

    Go Gus… Speaking as someone who believes that all these religions are on the same epistemological level as the belief in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy, I don’t really give a hoot.

    Indonesia is pretty weak on freedom of religion. (You have to be “officially” religious and you have to be one of five official religions I believe.) It would be better if you just let the Ahmadiyah be. More science. More education. Less ignorance. Less intolerance.

    A religion that has to beat up on and ban its competition is fundamentally weak. Or perhaps you should repeat European history and have yourselves a nice little Thirty Year’s War or a few St Bartholomew’s days massacres?

  4. avatar Cukurungan says:
    January 8th, 2008 at 7:33 am

    All Islamic sects should be given a chance to thrive in Indonesia for certain period say 10 years. At the end of this period, we look for the best performing sect in regard to: peaceful existence with other faiths; gender equality issue; tolerant of apostasy; etc. The winning sect will have their interpreted dogma exported to warring Islamic countries.

    That is only your dream, the real islam will always has two face that is a peaceful face and a war face and we will crush anyone who try to eliminate one of face of the islamic teaching.

  5. avatar Sputjam says:
    January 8th, 2008 at 10:11 am

    Who is to know which is the correct islamic teachings?

    The Christians in europe had to fight to free themselves from Roman church domination. That fight still persist on a smaller scale in places such as northern Ireland and Glasgow (celtic football club-catholic and rangers fc-protestant).

    Nowadays, due to religious neglect, the Eoropean christians societies have become much more tolerable places to live, because the fundamental foundation of such societies are based on justice, which is evolving with modernity.

    There will be no justice if powerful religious organisations are able to make judgement on others.

  6. avatar Sylvester says:
    January 8th, 2008 at 10:44 am

    Islam today is similar to Christianity during the Middle Ages. The question is:
    Is it possible for Islam to improve? Or the problem is actually in the teaching itself.

  7. avatar Aluang Anak Bayang says:
    January 8th, 2008 at 12:10 pm

    @ Cukurungan

    That is only your dream, the real islam will always has two face that is a peaceful face and a war face and we will crush anyone who try to eliminate one of face of the islamic teaching.

    On 2nd thought, maybe we keep the ‘real Islam with two faces’ in non-Javanese province like Acheh or the Maluku. That way we can get consistent supply of uneducated cheap labourers to Java island.

  8. avatar iamisaid says:
    January 8th, 2008 at 12:21 pm

    Sputjam asked:

    Who is to know which is the correct islamic teachings?

    Those who wish to know, please refer to Dawud Farquhar at “Learning Islam”, the millenium messenger of God, who sits on the right hand of God.

  9. avatar iamisaid says:
    January 8th, 2008 at 12:32 pm

    Sylvester Says:

    he question is: Is it possible for Islam to improve? Or the problem is actually in the teaching itself.

    In my opinion it is not Religion per se that needs to be improved. Simply because if the teachings of Religion is of Divine Inspiration or whatever the claim to Divine origin, how could God be shooting at Himself?

    It is man that needs improvement.

    In particular, those who are madly religious. Can you spot them? Half their bodies seems stuck in some other realm while the rest of it dangles on earth. So, it is with these kind of mad religious people who seem neither here nor there.

  10. avatar Bogalakon says:
    January 8th, 2008 at 1:06 pm

    All Islamic sects should be given a chance to thrive in Indonesia for certain period say 10 years. At the end of this period, we look for the best performing sect in regard to: peaceful existence with other faiths; gender equality issue; tolerant of apostasy; etc. The winning sect will have their interpreted dogma exported to warring Islamic countries.

    Why don’t you let natural selection work?

    HMMMM”¦. are there any such things in Islam?

    It might be better if you open and read Qur’an
    Sometimes it’s ironic to see how people are really interested in talking about Islam but unwilling to know it from its source.

    Islam today is similar to Christianity during the Middle Ages. The question is: Is it possible for Islam to improve? Or the problem is actually in the teaching itself.

    What about if nowadays there was a Christian sect that refutes crucifixion, would Christianity accept that sect?

    Rgds,
    “Tong Kosong Nyaring Bunyinya”

  11. avatar iamisaid says:
    January 8th, 2008 at 1:21 pm

    Bogalakon,

    Sometimes it’s ironic to see how people are really interested in talking about Islam but unwilling to know it from its source.

    That may be true.

    But what does one do when there are Muslims, such as Dawud Farquhar, who appear on the scene with a similar behaviour like Dawud Farquhar? And may I repeat, BEHAVIOUR and I am not in this respect pointing to their belief or their interpretations of it.

    Interested on who is Dawud Farquahar?
    Go to “Learning Islam at :
    http://www.indonesiamatters.com/1368/learning-islam/

    Simply – if a Muslim and for that matter, if any other follower of any other Religion is unable to discuss Religion in a civilised manner, what good is there?

  12. avatar raden says:
    January 8th, 2008 at 3:52 pm

    We should banned the MUI council who keep issuing Fatwa that overlapping with our law. It is better to let Ahmadiyah & all sects live in Indonesia, human rights & democracy … amien. And I never heard Ahmadiyah believers commit any vandalism or rebelious to our law

  13. avatar iamisaid says:
    January 8th, 2008 at 4:00 pm

    raden said:

    We should banned the MUI council who keep issuing Fatwa……….

    Before even I can understand the players and what their role is, I would have to take a course on what these exist for:

    MUI
    FUI
    ALUMNI
    and if there be anymore “I’s” to add to the list.

    Hmmmm, by strange coincidence they all end with I?

    Perhaps, that is base where all the problem begins.

  14. avatar Teng says:
    January 8th, 2008 at 4:55 pm

    What about if nowadays there was a Christian sect that refutes crucifixion, would Christianity accept that sect?

    There is… it’s called Islam ;)

    (that was a joke people.. don’t issue a fatwa against me please)

  15. avatar Lairedion says:
    January 8th, 2008 at 5:54 pm

    Bogalakon said:

    What about if nowadays there was a Christian sect that refutes crucifixion, would Christianity accept that sect?

    If I was a Christian/Catholic I would disagree with their beliefs but I certainly would accept them as fellow human beings. If sects are violating the law, yes ban them. So I would like to see sects such as FPI to be banned. Let Ahmadiyah do their thing as long as it’s not illegal. If you disagree with them, simply ignore them.

  16. avatar Bogalakon says:
    January 8th, 2008 at 6:47 pm

    Dear Lairedion,

    That is exactly what I feel,
    But to keep my own faith while at the same time allow the others to mischief my religion is kind of hard to do.

    I am so sad to see Ahmadiyah were being treated badly. But my heart is torn apart questioning why those people shall deviate from the core of Islam teaching.

    I am not a proper man to judge what the true Islam is. But simply thinking about religion where anyone can claim himself as a prophet and place or displace verse on their holy book as they like is absolutely absurd.

    Rgds,
    - Tong kosong Nyaring Bunyinya -

  17. avatar Cukurungan says:
    January 8th, 2008 at 8:12 pm

    There is… it’s called Islam ;)(that was a joke people.. don’t issue a fatwa against me please)’

    Me:
    There’s no fatwa for you coz we have Quran verses Surat At Taubah is ready to be activated whenever we wish so ….hi hi hi ….is that clear Sir

  18. avatar iamisaid says:
    January 8th, 2008 at 8:23 pm

    Teng says:

    There is”¦ it’s called Islam ;)(that was a joke people.. don’t issue a fatwa against me please)’

    Cukurangan says:

    There’s no fatwa for you coz we have Quran verses Surat At Taubah is ready to be activated whenever we wish so “¦.hi hi hi “¦.is that clear Sir

    I say: Lesson to be learnt.
    One may joke about a person and that depends on the established relationship.
    Do NOT joke about the person’s Religion.

  19. avatar Teng says:
    January 8th, 2008 at 8:38 pm

    Do NOT joke about the person’s Religion.

    For me freedom of speech is more important than religious sensitivity of which too much causes Danish cartoon riots and calls for killing a teacher who had let her students call a teddybear Mohammed.

  20. avatar Cukurungan says:
    January 8th, 2008 at 9:02 pm

    For us freedom of actions is more important than the freedom of speech, we can burn, attack and run amok when so required

  21. avatar iamisaid says:
    January 8th, 2008 at 9:33 pm

    Teng says:

    For me freedom of speech is more important than religious sensitivity of which too much causes Danish cartoon riots and calls for killing a teacher who had let her students call a teddybear Mohammed.

    Exactly and in the same vein that you relate (about Danish cartoon, etc.,)

    With freedom of speech comes responsibility and tact.

    Freedom does not imply licentiousness.

    Basic common sense.

  22. avatar Teng says:
    January 8th, 2008 at 9:41 pm

    I see, and so it is decided that my little joke is so tactless that threaths from Cuk are in fact justified?

    Who decides when something is concidered “not done”?

    I am a Christian, but when I watch Monty Python’s Life of Brian, I’m certainly not insulted.

  23. avatar iamisaid says:
    January 8th, 2008 at 9:58 pm

    Teng,

    Do not take offence.

    We sharing opinions.

    Just that in a public forum or whatever, there are others who could perceive what’s being said in a totally different light.

    I can say this as I have been misunderstood many times.

    Peace Brother!

  24. avatar Teng says:
    January 8th, 2008 at 10:00 pm

    Just that in a public forum or whatever, there are others who could perceive what’s being said in a totally different light.

    This is a truth for sure. :)

    Peace to you too brother

  25. avatar iamisaid says:
    January 8th, 2008 at 10:01 pm

    Happy New Year to you Teng !

    :)

  26. avatar Aluang Anak Bayang says:
    January 8th, 2008 at 10:08 pm

    That is hardly a joke. Islam do not accept cruxification; and the one nailed on the cross is Judas Iscariot. Ask any muslim and they can confirm it.

  27. avatar Teng says:
    January 8th, 2008 at 10:09 pm

    And a Happy New Year to you to iamisaid!

    To get this thread back on track, I suddenly noticed this in the article:

    government is obliged to put into force the Majelis Ulama Indonesia’s (MUI) fatwa against the sect

    Is this true? And if so.. how far can MUI go with their fatwa? What if they decide Kejawen is a “sect”? Is the government obliged to put into force the fatwa too?

    And what if they suddenly issue a fatwa saying women can’t run for presidency?

  28. avatar iamisaid says:
    January 8th, 2008 at 10:13 pm

    Teng,

    Is this true? And if so.. how far can MUI go with their fatwa? What if they decide Kejawen is a “sect”? Is the government obliged to put into force the fatwa too?

    And what if they suddenly issue a fatwa saying women can’t run for presidency?

    Honestly, Teng, I do not have a clue and I am not qualified to give an answer to that.
    I am not an Indonesian although I have spent the last 7 years travelling to Indonesia and still am.

    Politics being what it is all over the world is what we all know what it is. It is a different entity which defy logic and common sense most of the time.

  29. avatar Bang Jebud says:
    January 9th, 2008 at 12:06 am

    Teng Says:

    For me freedom of speech is more important than religious sensitivity of which too much causes Danish cartoon riots and calls for killing a teacher who had let her students call a teddybear Mohammed.

    I couldn’t agree more with Teng
    We don’t mind if a teacher calling students ‘doggy Jesus’ or ‘Piggy Cristians’. It’s nice.
    It’s only a matter of ‘freedom of speech’!!

    Happy a new year

  30. avatar Aluang Anak Bayang says:
    January 9th, 2008 at 12:14 am

    We don’t mind if a teacher calling students ‘doggy Jesus’ or ‘Piggy Cristians’. It’s nice.

    LOL they are cute names and harmless. Asians don’t easily get offended. Arabs and Africans are easily offended.

    I can understand someone getting offended by words such as ‘f**king Jesus’ or ‘d**khead muslim’.

    Peace.

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