Banning Islamic Sects
January 7th, 2008, in News, by PatungWhether to ban Islamic sects like Ahmadiyah.
After the banning of the sect Al-Qiyadah Al-Islamiyah recently some are clamouring for the much bigger and older sect, Ahmadiyah, to have the same fate.
Banning of Ahmadiyah
The government, or its agencies, is currently debating whether to formally ban the Ahmadiyah sect, its activities, written materials, and teachings. Ahmadiyah was founded in Punjab, India, in 1889 by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, and has about 200,000 followers in Indonesia and some millions worldwide.
The “Tim Pakem“ (Pengawas Aliran Kepercayaan Masyarakat, Overseers of the Peoples’ Beliefs), part of the Attorney General’s office, will hold a meeting on 8th January to begin discussions on the issue. [1]
Umbrellas
A delegation from the Forum Umat Islam (FUI), which is said to be an umbrella organisation for 53 Islamic groups, handed a petition to Hendarman Supandji, the Attorney General, on 3rd January, asking for Ahmadiyah to be banned.
One member of the delegation, Amin Djamaludin, from the Majelis Ulama Indonesia (MUI), says the sect needs to be banned not because it is heretical but because the world leadership of Ahmadiyah intends to make Indonesia their base. He knows this because he read it in editions 12, 13, and 20 of “Al Fadhl International” in the year 2000, apparently a British magazine put out by Ahmadiyah.
But besides that he said the FUI had gathered a lot of proof showing that Ahmadiyah flouted Islam’s teachings, specifically in the group’s holy book, the Tadzkirah. [2]
If they’re not banned then we ask that they just start their own religion [totally outside of Islam].
Another umbrella group, the Aliansi Umat Islam (Alumni) in Bandung, which represents 47 Islamic associations, issued an ultimatum to the government, threatening to bring 40,000 people out onto the streets if Ahmadiyah were not banned by Islamic New Year. [3]
Those in favour of the banning of Ahmadiyah generally state that the government is obliged to put into force the Majelis Ulama Indonesia’s (MUI) fatwa against the sect (Nomor 11, 2005 [4]).
Banning the MUI
Adnan Buyung Nasution, a lawyer, former parliamentarian and senior civil servant, and prolific author, said on 22nd December that instead the Clerics’ Council, MUI, should be dissolved, because its fatwa against Ahmadiyah had caused the recent violence against the group. [5]
Adnan Buyung Nasution
On 30th December former president Abdurrahman Wahid (Gus Dur) agreed, saying that the MUI did nothing but issue fatwas, and there were a lot of other more useful Islamic organisations in existence. [6]
But if it can’t be disbanded then the current leadership should be changed.
And more recently, on January 7th, the Aliansi Kebangsaan untuk Kebebasan Beragama dan Berkeyakinan (AKKBB) staged a small demonstration outside the Attorney General’s office in Jakarta, as well as demos in a number of other cities, calling on the state to defend religious freedom. [7]
Tags: Adnan Buyung Nasution, Ahmadiyah, Beliefs, Clerics Council, Detik, Fatwa, Fatwas, Heretics, Islamic, Islamic Associations, Islamic Groups, Islamic Organisations, Law, Majelis Ulama Indonesia, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, MUI, Muslim, Pakem, Religion, Sects, Teaching, Umbrella Group, World Leadership
45 Comments on “Banning Islamic Sects”
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Aluang Anak Bayang Says:
January 7th, 2008 at 11:30 pmAll Islamic sects should be given a chance to thrive in Indonesia for certain period say 10 years. At the end of this period, we look for the best performing sect in regard to: peaceful existence with other faiths; gender equality issue; tolerant of apostasy; etc. The winning sect will have their interpreted dogma exported to warring Islamic countries.
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Goobers Says:
January 8th, 2008 at 12:24 amAAB said:
peaceful existence with other faiths; gender equality issue; tolerant of apostasy; etc.
HMMMM…. are there any such things in Islam?
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perseus Says:
January 8th, 2008 at 5:29 amOn 30th December former president Abdurrahman Wahid (Gus Dur) agreed, saying that the MUI did nothing but issue fatwas, and there were a lot of other more useful Islamic organisations in existence.
Go Gus… Speaking as someone who believes that all these religions are on the same epistemological level as the belief in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy, I don’t really give a hoot.
Indonesia is pretty weak on freedom of religion. (You have to be “officially” religious and you have to be one of five official religions I believe.) It would be better if you just let the Ahmadiyah be. More science. More education. Less ignorance. Less intolerance.
A religion that has to beat up on and ban its competition is fundamentally weak. Or perhaps you should repeat European history and have yourselves a nice little Thirty Year’s War or a few St Bartholomew’s days massacres?
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Cukurungan Says:
January 8th, 2008 at 7:33 amAll Islamic sects should be given a chance to thrive in Indonesia for certain period say 10 years. At the end of this period, we look for the best performing sect in regard to: peaceful existence with other faiths; gender equality issue; tolerant of apostasy; etc. The winning sect will have their interpreted dogma exported to warring Islamic countries.
That is only your dream, the real islam will always has two face that is a peaceful face and a war face and we will crush anyone who try to eliminate one of face of the islamic teaching.
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Sputjam Says:
January 8th, 2008 at 10:11 amWho is to know which is the correct islamic teachings?
The Christians in europe had to fight to free themselves from Roman church domination. That fight still persist on a smaller scale in places such as northern Ireland and Glasgow (celtic football club-catholic and rangers fc-protestant).
Nowadays, due to religious neglect, the Eoropean christians societies have become much more tolerable places to live, because the fundamental foundation of such societies are based on justice, which is evolving with modernity.
There will be no justice if powerful religious organisations are able to make judgement on others.
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Sylvester Says:
January 8th, 2008 at 10:44 amIslam today is similar to Christianity during the Middle Ages. The question is:
Is it possible for Islam to improve? Or the problem is actually in the teaching itself. -
January 8th, 2008 at 12:10 pm@ Cukurungan
That is only your dream, the real islam will always has two face that is a peaceful face and a war face and we will crush anyone who try to eliminate one of face of the islamic teaching.
On 2nd thought, maybe we keep the ‘real Islam with two faces’ in non-Javanese province like Acheh or the Maluku. That way we can get consistent supply of uneducated cheap labourers to Java island.
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iamisaid Says:
January 8th, 2008 at 12:21 pmSputjam asked:
Who is to know which is the correct islamic teachings?
Those who wish to know, please refer to Dawud Farquhar at “Learning Islam”, the millenium messenger of God, who sits on the right hand of God.
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January 8th, 2008 at 12:32 pmSylvester Says:
he question is: Is it possible for Islam to improve? Or the problem is actually in the teaching itself.
In my opinion it is not Religion per se that needs to be improved. Simply because if the teachings of Religion is of Divine Inspiration or whatever the claim to Divine origin, how could God be shooting at Himself?
It is man that needs improvement.
In particular, those who are madly religious. Can you spot them? Half their bodies seems stuck in some other realm while the rest of it dangles on earth. So, it is with these kind of mad religious people who seem neither here nor there.
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Bogalakon Says:
January 8th, 2008 at 1:06 pmAll Islamic sects should be given a chance to thrive in Indonesia for certain period say 10 years. At the end of this period, we look for the best performing sect in regard to: peaceful existence with other faiths; gender equality issue; tolerant of apostasy; etc. The winning sect will have their interpreted dogma exported to warring Islamic countries.
Why don’t you let natural selection work?
HMMMM”¦. are there any such things in Islam?
It might be better if you open and read Qur’an
Sometimes it’s ironic to see how people are really interested in talking about Islam but unwilling to know it from its source.Islam today is similar to Christianity during the Middle Ages. The question is: Is it possible for Islam to improve? Or the problem is actually in the teaching itself.
What about if nowadays there was a Christian sect that refutes crucifixion, would Christianity accept that sect?
Rgds,
“Tong Kosong Nyaring Bunyinya” -
January 8th, 2008 at 1:21 pmBogalakon,
Sometimes it’s ironic to see how people are really interested in talking about Islam but unwilling to know it from its source.
That may be true.
But what does one do when there are Muslims, such as Dawud Farquhar, who appear on the scene with a similar behaviour like Dawud Farquhar? And may I repeat, BEHAVIOUR and I am not in this respect pointing to their belief or their interpretations of it.
Interested on who is Dawud Farquahar?
Go to “Learning Islam at :
http://www.indonesiamatters.com/1368/learning-islam/Simply - if a Muslim and for that matter, if any other follower of any other Religion is unable to discuss Religion in a civilised manner, what good is there?
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raden Says:
January 8th, 2008 at 3:52 pmWe should banned the MUI council who keep issuing Fatwa that overlapping with our law. It is better to let Ahmadiyah & all sects live in Indonesia, human rights & democracy … amien. And I never heard Ahmadiyah believers commit any vandalism or rebelious to our law
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January 8th, 2008 at 4:00 pmraden said:
We should banned the MUI council who keep issuing Fatwa……….
Before even I can understand the players and what their role is, I would have to take a course on what these exist for:
MUI
FUI
ALUMNI
and if there be anymore “I’s” to add to the list.Hmmmm, by strange coincidence they all end with I?
Perhaps, that is base where all the problem begins.
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Teng Says:
January 8th, 2008 at 4:55 pmWhat about if nowadays there was a Christian sect that refutes crucifixion, would Christianity accept that sect?
There is… it’s called Islam
(that was a joke people.. don’t issue a fatwa against me please)
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Lairedion Says:
January 8th, 2008 at 5:54 pmBogalakon said:
What about if nowadays there was a Christian sect that refutes crucifixion, would Christianity accept that sect?
If I was a Christian/Catholic I would disagree with their beliefs but I certainly would accept them as fellow human beings. If sects are violating the law, yes ban them. So I would like to see sects such as FPI to be banned. Let Ahmadiyah do their thing as long as it’s not illegal. If you disagree with them, simply ignore them.
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January 8th, 2008 at 6:47 pmDear Lairedion,
That is exactly what I feel,
But to keep my own faith while at the same time allow the others to mischief my religion is kind of hard to do.I am so sad to see Ahmadiyah were being treated badly. But my heart is torn apart questioning why those people shall deviate from the core of Islam teaching.
I am not a proper man to judge what the true Islam is. But simply thinking about religion where anyone can claim himself as a prophet and place or displace verse on their holy book as they like is absolutely absurd.
Rgds,
- Tong kosong Nyaring Bunyinya - -
January 8th, 2008 at 8:12 pmThere is… it’s called Islam ;)(that was a joke people.. don’t issue a fatwa against me please)’
Me:
There’s no fatwa for you coz we have Quran verses Surat At Taubah is ready to be activated whenever we wish so ….hi hi hi ….is that clear Sir -
January 8th, 2008 at 8:23 pmTeng says:
There is”¦ it’s called Islam ;)(that was a joke people.. don’t issue a fatwa against me please)’
Cukurangan says:
There’s no fatwa for you coz we have Quran verses Surat At Taubah is ready to be activated whenever we wish so “¦.hi hi hi “¦.is that clear Sir
I say: Lesson to be learnt.
One may joke about a person and that depends on the established relationship.
Do NOT joke about the person’s Religion. -
January 8th, 2008 at 8:38 pmDo NOT joke about the person’s Religion.
For me freedom of speech is more important than religious sensitivity of which too much causes Danish cartoon riots and calls for killing a teacher who had let her students call a teddybear Mohammed.
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January 8th, 2008 at 9:02 pmFor us freedom of actions is more important than the freedom of speech, we can burn, attack and run amok when so required
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January 8th, 2008 at 9:33 pmTeng says:
For me freedom of speech is more important than religious sensitivity of which too much causes Danish cartoon riots and calls for killing a teacher who had let her students call a teddybear Mohammed.
Exactly and in the same vein that you relate (about Danish cartoon, etc.,)
With freedom of speech comes responsibility and tact.
Freedom does not imply licentiousness.
Basic common sense.
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January 8th, 2008 at 9:41 pmI see, and so it is decided that my little joke is so tactless that threaths from Cuk are in fact justified?
Who decides when something is concidered “not done”?
I am a Christian, but when I watch Monty Python’s Life of Brian, I’m certainly not insulted.
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January 8th, 2008 at 9:58 pmTeng,
Do not take offence.
We sharing opinions.
Just that in a public forum or whatever, there are others who could perceive what’s being said in a totally different light.
I can say this as I have been misunderstood many times.
Peace Brother!
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January 8th, 2008 at 10:00 pmJust that in a public forum or whatever, there are others who could perceive what’s being said in a totally different light.
This is a truth for sure.
Peace to you too brother
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January 8th, 2008 at 10:01 pmHappy New Year to you Teng !
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January 8th, 2008 at 10:08 pmThat is hardly a joke. Islam do not accept cruxification; and the one nailed on the cross is Judas Iscariot. Ask any muslim and they can confirm it.
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January 8th, 2008 at 10:09 pmAnd a Happy New Year to you to iamisaid!
To get this thread back on track, I suddenly noticed this in the article:
government is obliged to put into force the Majelis Ulama Indonesia’s (MUI) fatwa against the sect
Is this true? And if so.. how far can MUI go with their fatwa? What if they decide Kejawen is a “sect”? Is the government obliged to put into force the fatwa too?
And what if they suddenly issue a fatwa saying women can’t run for presidency?
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January 8th, 2008 at 10:13 pmTeng,
Is this true? And if so.. how far can MUI go with their fatwa? What if they decide Kejawen is a “sect”? Is the government obliged to put into force the fatwa too?
And what if they suddenly issue a fatwa saying women can’t run for presidency?
Honestly, Teng, I do not have a clue and I am not qualified to give an answer to that.
I am not an Indonesian although I have spent the last 7 years travelling to Indonesia and still am.Politics being what it is all over the world is what we all know what it is. It is a different entity which defy logic and common sense most of the time.
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Bang Jebud Says:
January 9th, 2008 at 12:06 amTeng Says:
For me freedom of speech is more important than religious sensitivity of which too much causes Danish cartoon riots and calls for killing a teacher who had let her students call a teddybear Mohammed.
I couldn’t agree more with Teng
We don’t mind if a teacher calling students ‘doggy Jesus’ or ‘Piggy Cristians’. It’s nice.
It’s only a matter of ‘freedom of speech’!!Happy a new year
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January 9th, 2008 at 12:14 amWe don’t mind if a teacher calling students ‘doggy Jesus’ or ‘Piggy Cristians’. It’s nice.
LOL they are cute names and harmless. Asians don’t easily get offended. Arabs and Africans are easily offended.
I can understand someone getting offended by words such as ‘f**king Jesus’ or ‘d**khead muslim’.
Peace.
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January 9th, 2008 at 12:17 amTeng Says:
For me freedom of speech is more important than religious sensitivity of which too much causes Danish cartoon riots and calls for killing a teacher who had let her students call a teddybear Mohammed.
I couldn’t agree more with Teng
We don’t mind if a teacher calls students ‘doggy Jesus’ or ‘Piggy Cristian’. It’s nice.
It’s only a matter of ‘freedom of speech’!!Happy a new year
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Josef Says:
January 9th, 2008 at 12:21 amI’m with you Teng. For one it was a clever joke. For 2 freedom of speech is always #1.
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January 9th, 2008 at 7:34 amI am a Christian, but when I watch Monty Python’s Life of Brian, I’m certainly not insulted.
?Friend you are not a Christian but you are just a Parody Christian because the true Christian has been extinct from this worlds long time a go”¦do not take offence just a freedom of speech
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January 9th, 2008 at 1:41 pmthe topics is ‘banning Islamic sects’, the discussion thread becoming hatred & damning the christian fellows … what the hell is inside your brains Indonesian ? hatred … no peace … jealousy … and because of no works ? no jobs ?
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January 9th, 2008 at 7:29 pmwhat the hell is inside your brains Indonesian ? hatred “¦ no peace “¦ jealousy “¦ and because of no works ? no jobs ?
I’m quite sure most Indonesian at IM are here because they have a job, so they can write down the thread in their office. Off course when the boss is not there. lol
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Pena Budaya Says:
January 9th, 2008 at 7:59 pmthe topics is ‘banning Islamic sects’, the discussion thread becoming hatred & damning the christian fellows “¦ what the hell is inside your brains Indonesian ? hatred “¦ no peace “¦ jealousy “¦ and because of no works ? no jobs ?
It is because religions have brainwashed them to believe that nothing is better than their own religion. No other faiths could be better than theirs. Religions have made them blind and refused to see humanity and what is it to be a human. Their minds and actions are only based one book that so called “holy book” either Bible or Quran that caused them unable to see how the reality is much more beautiful and respectful than their holy book or religious leaders’ speech.
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January 9th, 2008 at 8:05 pm@ Pena Budaya
… so called “holy book” either Bible or Quran …
So called “holy book” is the Bible.
Quran is the holy book, understand?
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dewaratugedeanom Says:
January 9th, 2008 at 8:36 pmBogalakon said
It might be better if you open and read Qur’an
That’s exactly what I did and what I advise everyone to do. And for better understanding throw in some hadiths too. Then you will see for yourself what kind of delusional nonsense this ‘prophetical’ fairytale amounts to.
If you are psychology savvy and you want to know why some idiots blow themselves up in a crowd, read the Qur’an.Cukurungan said
For us freedom of actions is more important than the freedom of speech, we can burn, attack and run amok when so required
And who is we? A bunch of losers hiding their frustrations behind a so-called religion.
Islam has to go.
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January 9th, 2008 at 8:53 pmraden wrote :
the topics is ‘banning Islamic sects’, the discussion thread becoming hatred & damning the christian fellows “¦ what the hell is inside your brains Indonesian ? hatred “¦ no peace “¦ jealousy “¦ and because of no works ? no jobs ?
Me :
Control thy tone and refrain thy anger coz we were just enjoying the freedom of speech introduced by MR TENG -
January 9th, 2008 at 9:48 pmYeah Cuk, so long you only talk - you are dare to burn to amok, etc … we need some proof here, what you gonna do ? when ? I will give you 3 days, if I see Jakarta brunt down again like the last riot then I believe you are not NATO, what u gonna do ?
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January 10th, 2008 at 8:37 amDewaratuanom wrote :
And who is we? A bunch of losers hiding their frustrations behind a so-called religion.Islam has to go.’
Me :
You’re still need learn more for improving your insult style …please don’t hesitate to read again and again the tip to insult written by our muslim brother Achmad.
Raden wrote :
‘Yeah Cuk, so long you only talk - you are dare to burn to amok, etc … we need some proof here, what you gonna do ? when ? I will give you 3 days, if I see Jakarta brunt down again like the last riot then I believe you are not NATO, what u gonna do ?’Me:
Don’t we enjoy the freedom speech so again control thy tone and refrain thy anger.Sorry I am not working under your order and we will do whatever we wish to do when the times is rights while at the moment I am still enjoying my freedom of speech.
But I am wondering why you’re still wandering around here while you recommended your brother of the parody christian to leave Indonesia.
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balibent Says:
January 12th, 2008 at 11:10 amIn history of man there have been thousand of religions, Almost every discovered tribe or civilization has had some religious practices. MUI is fighting human nature to ban the new and evoling religious expressions of fellow humans. All religions have only one thing in common, they come from the human desire to fill in the blanks which come from self awareness in human brains. Surely the human understanding of the cosmos and the human experience is different from those who worshipped Apollo or Thor and it was in need of an update. In the same way what is the reality of religions which are based in the limited understandings 1500 or 2000 or 3000 years ago?
we know from history and human nature that the humans are subject to the relativism and social norms of its culture and have only capability of limited understanding. How can we claim absolute in face of this obvious human nature of limited understanding.
The religious or spiritual questions need to be asked over and over again from the view of our evoling self awareness. The answers (religions) have only to be accepted by those who ask and answer them to their own satisfaction. The organized religions are about control and politics. Always have been. They start with the answer not the question.
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agam Says:
January 13th, 2008 at 8:53 amsome positive result of demokrasi in Indonesia:
- more segmented and fragmented organisation.
Two biggest moderate organisations, NU and Muhamamdiyah can no longer accommodate the diversity of muslim ideology. while some 30 years ago NU is the only one organisation for traditional muslim living in rural areas, and Muhammadiyah for middle class muslim in bigger cities, there have been some growing ideology, mostly imported such as Ikhwanul Muslimin from Egypt, Jamiat Al Islami of Pakistan Hizbut Tahrir also from Pakistan, Salafi, Wahabi from Saudi, etc, who later transformed into PKS, Dewan Dakwah Islamiyah and Hizbut Tahrir Indonesia, Laskar Jihad, etc. mostly these groups were splinter groups of Muhammadiyah. perhaps it is related to their middle class background with better education that enable them to import exotic ideology. NU followers dont have that luxury. they depend on their kiai as cultural broker, filtering what can be taught to them.I believe that Muhammadiyah is more vulnerable to these ‘islamist (who coined this term?)’ ideology and eye closely, and support prominent people such as Pak Syafii Maarif in calming down those ‘islamists’ and Din Syamsuddin, current Chairman. Din close to these groups in the past but his current position force him to be a moderate muslim
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January 13th, 2008 at 8:08 pm@balibent
Couldn’t have said it any better. Any ideology or religion that doesn’t take account of or even opposes evolution shouldn’t be heeded. Process is the keyword that defines the Universe and everything in it. And this also applies to our religious and our self awareness. -
January 14th, 2008 at 4:11 pm@balibent
Picture perfect observation! I totally agree.
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