Indonesian Women

Oct 3rd, 2007, in News, by

Laws that discriminate against women.

The recent 39th meeting of the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women (CEDAW) in New York recommended Indonesia revoke all laws that are viewed as biased against women, said the Minister for Women's Empowerment, Meutia Hatta, on 26th September.

Although Indonesia ratified the Convention 23 years ago Meutia says:

There are currently 29 laws which are gender-biased and we have suggested the relevant ministries amend them. I have heard that they are still evaluating them.

She cited the 1974 marriage law, which contains articles that permit men to commit polygamy, but not women, in the case of a wife's infertility or inability to perform her "wifely duties", and which also allows girls of 16 and 17 to marry, even though in other statutes such girls are considered still to be children.

Meutia said the Women's Empowerment ministry had asked the Religious Affairs ministry to review any discriminative laws within its authority but had not yet received a response.

Meutia Farida Hatta
Meutia Farida Hatta.

She went on to say that at the meeting in New York concerns were also raised about the effect of the regional autonomy policy which had created discriminative regulations against women, such as the 2005 by-law in Tangerang, Banten, which stipulates that any woman seen alone in public after 19.00 could be considered a prostitute and arrested, as well as the various regional laws, such as this one in Malang, requiring women to obtain permission from their husbands to work at night.

Meuthia said the meeting also criticized the Indonesian government for its failure to fully integrate CEDAW convention compliance into Indonesian laws. The minister said this was because the details of the CEDAW convention were not yet known by government bodies.

CEDAW also asked the government to issue a firm policy against female circumcision.

Indonesia had not received an all negative report card however:

They noted some improvements like the issuance of the 1999 Law on Human Rights, the amendment to the 1945 Constitution, the 2004 Law on the Elimination of Domestic Violence, the 2006 Law on Witness's and Victim's Protection and the 2007 Law on Human Trafficking.


176 Comments on “Indonesian Women”

  1. avatar Ade Wanto says:

    She cited the 1974 marriage law, which contains articles that permit men to commit polygamy, but not women, in the case of a wife’s infertility or inability to perform her “wifely duties”, and which also allows girls of 16 and 17 to marry, even though in other statutes such girls are considered still to be children.

    Child, who is your father? If a woman can commit to polygamy, that the first question ask from child’s mother. Because in millions seed, only one can reach “the goal”.

    She went on to say that at the meeting in New York concerns were also raised about the effect of the regional autonomy policy which had created discriminative regulations against women, such as the 2005 by-law in Tangerang, Banten, which stipulates that any woman seen alone in public after 19.00 could be considered a prostitute and arrested, as well as the various regional laws, such as this one in Malang, requiring women to obtain permission from their husbands to work at night.

    Many women on the street, many scandalous on the front page. Of course, Province of Banten Administration has a wrong way in respect people especially women. But, it is not mirroring National Policy. Let their wives and mothers -who walk in the night- capture by police.

    I do not think police in city of Malang, East Java, will capture woman who walk in the night. Too many woman student in Malang. Are they going to take a rest all night long in their dormitory? Or, in police station’s jail?

  2. avatar Serious Man says:

    Why they (west) always impose us to follow them? And think that we are bad men, bad people and bad country? I can’t understand here some people are deceived them and think that they are the only right side.

  3. avatar iamisaid says:

    I recall one of my school teachers who said that it is imperfect for children to take the name of their father in reference as being his son or his daughter.

    However crude this might sound, he went on to say that the child should take the mother’s name simply because it is the mother who knows who fathered the child.

    Sounds logical but that would most certainly gall any man to allow the family name to be that of his wife. That would be implicitly admitting that it is possible that she has slept with men other than him. LOL !

  4. avatar Pena Budaya says:

    ade_wanto said

    Child, who is your father? If a woman can commit to polygamy, that the first question ask from child’s mother. Because in millions seed, only one can reach “the goal”.

    oh boy, so typical statement..

    This is not about the equality to have polygamy/andry, but Polygamy/andry itself is a practice that has higher possible to be destructive for family. It’s not about women’s freedom to choose who they marry or how many spouses they have: it’s about women being owned by men. And even worse in Indonesia, only MAN who allows to do so! So, man has the right to do destructive action towards the family and spouse (?!?!) and the state LEGALISE this action!

    Just to remind you guys, marriage is a partnership, a friendship and a relationship. Polygamy turns marriage into a cattle drive. It is just shameful act and sincerely, disgusting.

    And btw, many developed countries has acknowledge that polygamy/andry as a criminal act. If Indonesia (and its citizens) is not realising this, no wonder we (Indonesians) keep being categorised as under-developed world citizens.

  5. avatar Teng says:

    Many women on the street, many scandalous on the front page. Of course, Province of Banten Administration has a wrong way in respect people especially women. But, it is not mirroring National Policy. Let their wives and mothers -who walk in the night- capture by police.

    It might not be national policy… yet. It seems to spread like a cancer around Indonesia. It started with that awful syariah in Aceh, then local governments got more power… and it got to the point you can’t walk around on the street after 19.00 as a woman without being arrested.

    When will a politician stand up and say: Wait a minute… this is going the wrong way! We are discriminating!

    Probably wont happen…. Indonesia is turning into a medieval sh*thole… and nobody does a thing.

    Selamat tinggal Indonesia, it was nice to have known you

  6. avatar Peter says:

    Women are God’s most precious and beautiful creations. Why should they be treated as second class citizens?

    If people used common sense instead of following dogma and trying to emulate Arab social customs, there wouldn’t be any of these problems in Indonesia. But overall the situation isn’t terrible there, it just needs some improvement.

  7. avatar Teng says:

    Women are God’s most precious and beautiful creations. Why should they be treated as second class citizens?

    Couldn’t agree with you more.

    If people used common sense instead of following dogma and trying to emulate Arab social customs, there wouldn’t be any of these problems in Indonesia. But overall the situation isn’t terrible there, it just needs some improvement.

    I agree with the first sentence. Not the second though.

    The situation in Banten is terrible… not Taliban-terrible… but still.
    It gets worse every year in Indonesia… so far there hasn’t been any turning point whatsoever. I see no movement to a more liberal Indonesia…. I only see more Arabisation.

  8. avatar Dimp says:

    Hey ade wanto,

    Let their wives and mothers -who walk in the night- capture by police.

    Since it is more likely for men to commit criminal acts, then why not capturing all the men who wander around during the night?

    BTW do you share the same opinion with your mother, or are you still not sure which one out of the four mothers you have is your real mother?

  9. avatar Ihaknt says:

    Just to remind you guys, marriage is a partnership, a friendship and a relationship. Polygamy turns marriage into a cattle drive. It is just shameful act and sincerely, disgusting.

    Totally agree with you PB. But how many of these people actually know this? Not many probably. They are a part of this unbroken cycle, they know what they know and what has been passed down for generations.

    What I dont understand is why do these women need to be captured and punished if they are helping their husbands who dont earn enough to feed their family, put kids through school? Why is it the women’s fault that the husbands dont have a good enough job that pays well? Maybe the husbands should stop whining and stop marrying more women if they cant afford one to start with!! We are definitely going backwards! Sad.

  10. avatar Sylvester says:

    Many indonesian agree that “surga di bawah telapak kaki ibu” to demonstrate how respectful to women are. But the fact is we see many gender discriminations in indo, which is caused by fundamentalistic religion and adat.
    Most Indo women are working more than their men, but receive less benefits and respect.

  11. avatar Bas says:

    And why alien wives are allowed to live in Indonesia with their Indonesian husband while alien husbands don’t get that same right? Once again it is a discrimination against women so that they don’t choose better quality men from abroad.

  12. avatar Raden says:

    In Indonesia today,
    The winner is: Islam radicalism ideology with agenda of Arabisation, swap your blangkon & batik kebaya with your beard, tudung & Arab’s sorban.
    The loser is: Indonesia reformation which are highly sponsored by the so called it the educated STUDENTS, remember ‘peristiwa Trisakti 11 – 12 May 1998’.
    Hi Indonesia students, you are responsible to do your homework again, to uproot & dismantle the muslim radicalism ideology & it’s organization in Indonesia.

    Why wait for politician ? they are riding on it in Indonesia, so sad.

    For those who can think moderate, global & forward thinking, it is better to stay away from Indonesia right now.

  13. avatar Ade Wanto says:

    This is not about the equality to have polygamy/andry, but Polygamy/andry itself is a practice that has higher possible to be destructive for family. It’s not about women’s freedom to choose who they marry or how many spouses they have: it’s about women being owned by men. And even worse in Indonesia, only MAN who allows to do so! So, man has the right to do destructive action towards the family and spouse (?!?!) and the state LEGALISE this action!

    I really do not understand why several people still arguing polygamy in Islam. What is their motive? Is it reasonable arguing Allah’s policy? In polygamy natter, Islam has set the terms. Islam do not force anyone to do or not to polygamy.

    If several people intend to ban polygamy, they must change The Quran first. Then they can hand over polygamy matter to politicians. But, for me, Allah know human at the best. I do not think politicians know better for me even though they are wold’s class feminist organization leader.

    I think before you give a comment on polygamy policy in Islam, you’d better read The Quran. Read it carefully without prejudice why Allah give permission to a man to do polygamy at that time. As I know, before Islam, a man can have hundreds wives – not only four women. Then, Islam limits it. Of course, Mohammed has privilege. But it is only for him. Not for me, neither you. Find it for yourself why Mohammed take more than four wives.

    Once again it is a discrimination against women so that they don’t choose better quality men from abroad.

    And in Islam, polygamy is not a discrimination. Man can do, woman can’t do. It is not a matter of discrimination.

    it’s about women being owned by men

    And, in Islam, terminology of polygamy is not stand for someone being owned to others. It is not like that. Islam just limits the number at that time. I think some misleading are happen here. Again, I ask what the main reason to arguing Allah’s permission on polygamy for a man?

    The situation in Banten is terrible”¦ not Taliban-terrible”¦ but still.
    It gets worse every year in Indonesia”¦ so far there hasn’t been any turning point whatsoever. I see no movement to a more liberal Indonesia”¦. I only see more Arabisation.

    My expression “Let their wives and mothers -who walk in the night- capture by police” is sarcasm to politicians and govt officer.

    I 100% agree in what happen in Banten Province and some other municipality in Indonesia which make a rule, they say, base on one of religion. Is it true they make a rule to protect people’s interest. I do not think so. That’s the way to repressed others to making money. They wrapped their self interest in religion matter.
    Do small group of people who sweeping other people in Ramadhan to protect people? No, I do not think so. Again, they sweeping others to making money for themselves. Do “Satuan Polisi Pamong Praja” who sweep unstar hotel to find prostitute really aim to do that? No, I do not think so. Again, they take advantage from their power they have. Do politicians make a rule to protect the best interest of people? No, I do not think so. They make it for the best interest themselves.

    Do you want to hand over God’s policy to politicians? Lets God’s business be God’s business. Polygamy, I think, is God’s business. God’s wisdom for human. And, I do not want to arguing God’s wisdom. Though I do not intend to do polygamy, I believe, Allah know the best for human kind.

    If Allah do not force anyone to obey Him, why we force somebody else to do what we thought better? If Allah make human in diversity, why we can create a life in diversities?

  14. avatar Dimp says:

    Hey Ade Wanto,

    Question still remains, do you share this male chauvinistic opinion with your mother, or are you still having difficulties knowing which out of the four wives your father have is your real mother?

  15. avatar Raden says:

    During $oeharto era, there are less people think like Ade Wanto, we were indoctrined in our primary schools to put PANCASILA’ BHINNEKA TUNGGAL IKA as our unique ideology above every other race’s ideologies or religions teaching and everyone followed in order, the Indonesia country was stable & ‘in order’ for 3 decades.
    Ade Wanto is one examle of the product of Indonesia’ miss-guided Reformation direction who put ‘his exclusive belief’ hidden behind Quran (in order to justify it to others who do not belief in Quran) above our state’ affairs, trying to compromise PANCASILA and dilute the law enforcement with his exclusive short sighted ideology. This is a clear & present danger, a bad example who want to mix between individual belief/sect teaching with national affairs (law), we need statistic, how many population think like Ade Wanto in Indonesia.

    In the event the number of Indonesia population who think like Ade Wanto reaching at alarming level & capable to influence our grass root majority classes, will you blame on Mr. George Bush if he would take this matter to his congress ‘ approval to one day invade Indonesia like Iraq war? ‘Ada sebab ada akibat’.
    One races / tribes / religion should not start emposing his exclusive rules to public matters or nation wide affairs, Indonesia will never be like ARAB, I am sorry.

  16. avatar Ihaknt says:

    Ade Wanto is just blinded by religion guys, totally and coveniently forgetting that the polygamy WAS permitted during war time. But we are not really in a war are we?

    But his line is contradicting his own view. Because unfortunately many moslems FORCE others to do things they dont believe in, they even fight with each other.

    If Allah do not force anyone to obey Him, why we force somebody else to do what we thought better?

  17. avatar Sylvester says:

    Agree, Raden.
    Radical islam is surely a clear & present danger not for Indo only but to all humankind.

  18. avatar Dimp says:

    Hi Sylvester,

    I think all radicals should be treated with caution.

    I have my fair share with some misguided people, regardless of their religion, and they always try to force their point of view to others… yet as Ihaknt point they always say there are no coercion.

  19. avatar dewaratugedeanom says:

    ade wanto said

    If several people intend to ban polygamy, they must change The Quran first.

    This is the best suggestion I heard for a long time. And at the same time let us appoint a new prophet, preferably a more peaceful and less horny one that doesn’t come from a backward Arab bedouin tribe.
    How about this Mirza Ghulam Ahmad character, founder of the Ahmadiyah? I wonder what he has to say about this.

  20. avatar Ade Wanto says:

    Question still remains, do you share this male chauvinistic opinion with your mother, or are you still having difficulties knowing which out of the four wives your father have is your real mother?

    My mother is 75 years old. I do not think to drag her in front of my computer. What for? And, I do not think about polygamy she have difficulties at all. Because her husband, my father, has two. And, neither do I. And, my wife too. I already have pocketed her bless to marry someone else. (I still find a good one) I think if you have already known why Allah give permission to a man have more than one wife (it depend to him to do or not to do. Allah does not force a man to do polygamy) you never arguing Allah’s wisdom for humanity.

    Indeed, as Khadijah said when she found out about her husband intend to marry again:

    “A tree behind my back becomes black.”

    For me, it is not easy to do polygamy. I have to be wiser in tender, love and care. I have to responsible to my family and Allah first before I do polygamy.

    Do you think God does not know this, as you said:

    Just to remind you guys, marriage is a partnership, a friendship and a relationship. Polygamy turns marriage into a cattle drive. It is just shameful act and sincerely, disgusting.

    Do you think you are smarter than God? Do you think you know the best interest for human than God? Why do you argue with Allah? What is your main reason to argue God’s policy related to polygamy? If you disagree to some one who do polygamy, its yours. But, you do not have any obligation to ban some one else to do polygamy.

    We have to accept differences as long as he who do polygamy does not commit crimes. Polygamy is not crime. If you do crime, you face the State Law. But, if you do polygamy, you face God’s Law. Let we determine what portion in our human life and togetherness hand over to politicians. And, what portion of human business remains to God’s wisdom. We have to brave to accept diversity. Do you have a brave heart to take differences?

    What I thought is not miss guided reformation. Please show me in what term I am miss guided? I think in Soeharto’s regime Indonesians live in miss guided. For 32 years, Indonesians have live by rule of Soeharto. Even Soeharto has his own interpretation about Indonesian basic principles, Pancasila. In Soeharto’s Era, difference means provoking and challenge him.

    will you blame on Mr. George Bush if he would take this matter to his congress ‘ approval to one day invade Indonesia like Iraq war? ‘Ada sebab ada akibat’.
    One races / tribes / religion should not start emposing his exclusive rules to public matters or nation wide affairs, Indonesia will never be like ARAB, I am sorry.

    Wow. Do you think there is no polygamy in America? Do you think no scandalous cause by woman in White House? Do you think America will send their troops for reason to ban force Indonesia policy in polygamy?

    And, how about free sex in American Society? How about Law in Massacuchet that allows homosexual marital? What do you know about law in abortion (for student and juvenile) in America? And, what do you know about law fighting for drug free trade in America? And, do you think if someday America will invade Indonesia just because Indonesian people does not make law in free prostitution, free abortion, permit homosexual marital, drugs free trade?

    I am very ashamed to most people in Indonesia. They are arguing polygamy but they silent about prostitution, homosexual practices, abortion, etc.
    Do you think I force other people to accept my thought? What do you think about a group people who ask for free homosexual practices in Indonesia? What do you think about ultra feminist movement who influence Indonesian to make a law about living together (non-marital relationship). Do they force their thought to others or what?

    Better I quote this:

    Believers, if you help God, God will help you and make you strong. But, the unbelievers shall be consigned to perdition. Allah will bring their deeds to nothing.
    (Quran 47: 7-8)

    God love those who fight to Allah cause in ranks as firm as a mighty adifice
    (Quran 61:4)

    And, this:

    I could hear May from beyond the curtain.
    “Bless me, Father, for I have sinned.
    I told a lie once, I was disobedient once.
    And, Father, a boy touched me once.”
    “Tell me, child. Was this touch immodest?
    Did he touch your breast, for example?”
    “He brushed against me, Father. Very gently.”

    “Cuba” poem by Paul Muldoon

    And, this:

    To make the one world in which we live
    most comfortable
    with a glass wall we have divided it
    into the zones

    Every advance, of course,
    has its drawbacks.
    If, for instance, one feels
    like having a good bath
    one now has to cross over
    into the other world
    to get the soap

    All the same,
    each one of us can boast
    of a two-world apartment
    (furnished in different styles,
    it goes without saying)
    with a communal sun, for the moment
    and separate access
    to earth.

    “The Glass Wall” a poem by Marin Sorescu

    So, this:

    “The difficulties lies, not in the new ideas, but in escaping from the old ones, which ramify; for those brought up as most of us have been, into every corner of our minds.”
    John Maynard Keynes

    Again, I ask Indonesians, in this political reformation era, let us learn to live in diversity. Diversity in our dream, in our opinion, in our spiritualism, in our religion practices, in our way of life, as long as we do not commit to crime to humanity and jeopardy our togetherness. Let God’s business be God’s business. We can hand over our togetherness matters to State. That apart of politicians business which the State pay them with people’s money. Let we throw over our old perspectives.

  21. avatar Sylvester says:

    Some lusty moslem are taking advantage of the quran about the polygami.

    Again, I ask Indonesians, in this political reformation era, let us learn to live in diversity. Diversity in our dream, in our opinion, in our spiritualism, in our religion practices, in our way of life, as long as we do not commit to crime to humanity and jeopardy our togetherness. Let God’s business be God’s business. We can hand over our togetherness matters to State. That apart of politicians business which the State pay them with people’s money. Let we throw over our old perspectives.

    Tell this to your fellow radicals that like to attack churches or enforce sharia to non-moslems.

  22. avatar Sylvester says:

    Wow. Do you think there is no polygamy in America? Do you think no scandalous cause by woman in White House? Do you think America will send their troops for reason to ban force Indonesia policy in polygamy?

    And, how about free sex in American Society? How about Law in Massacuchet that allows homosexual marital? What do you know about law in abortion (for student and juvenile) in America? And, what do you know about law fighting for drug free trade in America? And, do you think if someday America will invade Indonesia just because Indonesian people does not make law in free prostitution, free abortion, permit homosexual marital, drugs free trade?

    It is surely a statement from a pathethic anti-american. Poor mind. What can I say.

  23. avatar Janma says:

    Ade Wanto said:

    “do you think you are smarter than God? Do you think you know the best interest for human than God? Why do you argue with Allah? What is your main reason to argue God’s policy related to polygamy? If you disagree to some one who do polygamy, its yours. But, you do not have any obligation to ban some one else to do polygamy.”

    Firstly, disagreeing with polygamy does not mean that we think we are smarter than god. Also I think that I am best qualified to know what is best for me, not god, if there even is one that gives a sh*t, I’m sure he has larger fish to fry. Bit far fetched to say we are arguing with Allah, when Muhammad, I’m sorry to say, IS NOT GOD!!! He may have been your prophet, but he’s still a man, with ambition, desires and ego. So yeah, I would argue a few points with him definitely! Plus he said that it’s almost impossible to be fair to more than one wife and you can only have more than one if you could be fair, he didn’t want his own daughter to be subjected to polygamy, so I think it’s not an islamic principle, but merely Muhammad compromising with lusty arab men who can’t control themselves, but at least trying to provide some guidelines and restraints.

    The main reason to argue with the policy of polygamy is that it is berat sebelah. It favors men and victimizes women. Pure and simple. It’s not about god or islam it’s about unrestrained sexual desire in men who profess to be religious and following a spritual path of surrender to god. It seems to me that men in islam never try to control themselves, but merely try to force others to accommodate their base desires using religion as a premise. They are not wanting to be responsible for themselves but force others to accomodate their weaknesses. This is very clear in the way they have sweeping in ramadhan not allowing people to sell food or go to bars, because they can’t so nobody should, what’s that? Stand up you spineless creatures and take responsibility for your own shortcomings instead of trying to make women or non-believers pay the price.
    shheeesh!

  24. avatar dewaratugedeanom says:

    Ade Wanto said

    Lets God’s business be God’s business. Polygamy, I think, is God’s business. God’s wisdom for human. And, I do not want to arguing God’s wisdom.

    Whose god? Which god?

  25. avatar Ade Wanto says:

    Tell this to your fellow radicals that like to attack churches or enforce sharia to non-moslems.

    About clash in society – between Moslems and Christianity like in Ambon, Poso, and

    other areas- in Indonesia, I think you should learn about political behavior during Soeharto’s regime. Soeharto’s regime was making instability in many areas in Indonesia to take advantage of it. I think right now, Indonesian Government hand in hand with local community have been solving the society problems in all areas of conflict. And, I do not think its really conflict between religion believers. Political and economical interest even personal reason cause most all conflict in remote area in Indonesia.

    Also I think that I am best qualified to know what is best for me, not god, if there even is one that gives a sh*t, I’m sure he has larger fish to fry. Bit far fetched to say we are arguing with Allah, when Muhammad, I’m sorry to say, IS NOT GOD!!!

    I think every human life have their own determination. If you think you are best qualified to know what is best for me, not god, its yours. Not according to me, nor Muhammad, even nor God. It is your call. You are free as human. We are freedom on what we did, do and will do as long as our activity do not jeopardy other human life. If do, we face State Law. We are criminal if we do crime to society.

    It is So far, we, Moslems, do not like Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism. We never claim Muhammad is god. Muhammad is a person just like us. He breaths, sleeps, make love, eat, drink, bore, tire etc just as same as we do in daily life. He just like some apostles such as Adam, Lot, Abraham, Jacob, Isaac, David, Moses, Noah, Isa Al Masih, and thousands other apostles for their peoples.

    He may have been your prophet, but he’s still a man, with ambition, desires and ego. So yeah, I would argue a few points with him definitely!

    Yes, I 1.000.000% agree with you. Muhammad is not only a apostle, he is The Prophet. And, I agree with you too. Muhammad is still a man, with ambition, desires and ego. So yeah, I would argue a few points with him. And, I have done it. And, I am still doing. And, I will do it at all cost. No doubt of it. Me and my friends have a focus discussion group to argue about Hadits (it is a bundle of books about Muhammad’s wisdom, policy and what he did in his daily life). Me and friend hardly criticize it. Not all matters of Hadits, I believe, from Muhammad.

    This is very clear in the way they have sweeping in ramadhan not allowing people to sell food or go to bars, because they can’t so nobody should, what’s that? Stand up you spineless creatures and take responsibility for your own shortcomings instead of trying to make women or non-believers pay the price.

    Yes, I agree with you in this matter. It is not right -whoever done it even to whom claim in the name of Allah- to prohibit people earn money by open their restaurant during ramadhan. It is not right to to force others, even they are believers, to obey God. Allah never enforce any person to believe. And, no one person can enforce another to believe what they thought. People have to learn diversities amongst peoples.

    According Government policy in Indonesia, except in Aceh, I do not think any other area or municipality in Indonesia enforce people to conduct by sharia. Banten Municipality, as far as I know, the local government prohibit prostitution, alcoholism, and drugs abuse. And, as far as, I know prostitution, alcohol, and drugs abuse is still prohibit in all areas of Indonesia. Do you think Government of Republic Indonesia has already permitted prostitution, alcohol, and drugs abuse, do you? When it did? I really do not know if Government of Indonesia has changed the law in prostitution, alcohol, and drugs abuse in Indonesia. Please inform me further about this issues.

    It is surely a statement from a pathethic anti-american. Poor mind.

    Whoops. Do you think you know better than me about American? Have ever read this book “Culturte Warrior” by Bill O’Reilly? You’d better read that book first before you released a comment that “It is surely a statement from a pathethic anti-american.”

    UCLA, SP, AIPAC, PNAC, AEI, Cheney, Chimpy, O’Reilly, Savage, Kristol, Limbaugh, Beck, Malkin, Lieberman, Wolfowitz, Perle, Feist, Frum, Murdoch, Foxman, Adelman, Abrams, Kagan, Faux News, Hannity, Ingraham.

    Tell me what it mean to you about words above!

    Do you know what group of SP do in America related to American Society’s issues on :
    – Non Marital Relationship
    – Homosexual Marital (succeed in Mass.)
    – Abortion (succeed in many countries)
    – Drugs Legalized
    and many liberal and permissive laws.

    Do you think Indonesians must accept that laws too? And, if Indonesians do not accept that laws, America willing to send their troops to Indonesia? Or, if Indonesians legalize polygamy, America will embargo Indonesia?

    Me is “a pathethic anti-american.” Oh. Come on, guys.

    In all nations, nowadays, the war is between “to whom fear of God” and “to whom no fear of God.” Not between Christianity and Islam. Nor between one religion to others. For all religion believers, we have common enemies. Beleivers’ enemies are not they who think that polygamy is right. But, they who enforce they thought that peoples must accept Non Marital Relationship, Homosexual Marital, Abortion, Drugs Legalized and other Satan’s wills.

    Hi, the heartdeads, better you read this:

    And, tell of Lot. He said to his people, “Do you commit lawdness with your eyes open, lustfully seeking men instead of women? Surely, you are an ignorant people.
    (Quran 27:54)

    And, We sent forth Lot to his people. He said to them, “You commit lawd acts which no other nation has committed before you. You lust after men and assault them on your highways. At your gatherings you perpetrate abominations. But, his people’s only answer was, “Bring down the scourge of God upon us, if you say be true.”
    “Lord,” said Lot, “deliver me from their degenerate men.”
    And, when Our messengers brought Abraham the good news, they says, “We are to destroy the people of this town (Sodom) for its people have done wrong.”
    (Quran 29:29-31)

    So, We delivered him (Lot) and all his tribe, except his wife, whom We caused to stay behind, and pelted the others with pouring virus; and evil was the virus which fell on those who were fore warned.
    (Quran 27:57)

    Follow the best of what is revealed to you by our Lord before the scourge suddenly takes you when you are heedless; lest any man should reply, ” Alas! I have disobeyed God and scoffet at God revelations.”
    (Quran 39:55-56)

    This world has been punished once. Nowadays, some is looking it too. Better they go to the library and find out what people do to the sickness when penicillin has not been found yet for up to 600 years. And, better they go hurry look for the hospital what the sickness desperate for medicine. Until the cure for hiv found.

    And, for the braindeads, if you can swallow, eat this:

    Sexual intercourse began
    In nineteen sixty-three
    (which was rather late for me) –
    Between the end of the Chatterley ban
    And the Beatles’ first LP.

    Up till then there’d only been
    A sort of bargaining,
    A wrangle for a ring,
    A shame that started at sizteen
    And spread to everything.

    Then all at once the quarrel sank:
    Everyone felt the same,
    And every life became
    A brilliant breaking of the bank,
    A quite unlosable game.

    So life was never better than
    In nineteen sixty three
    (Though just to late for me) –
    Between the end of the Chatterley ban
    And the Beatles’ first LP.

    Annus Mirabilis -a poem by Philip Larkin

    And, for the dullies and dumbers, think fast to catch this:


    may i feel said he
    (i’ll equal said she
    just once said he)
    it’s fun said she

    (may i touch said he
    how much said she
    a lot said he}
    why not said she

    (let’s go said he
    not too far said she
    what’s too far said he
    where you are said she)

    may i stay said he
    (which way said she
    like this said he
    if you kiss said she

    may i move said he
    is it love said she)
    if you’re willing said he
    but you’ve willing said she

    but it’s life said he
    but your wife said she
    now said he
    ow said she

    tiptop said he
    don’t stop said she
    oh no said he
    go slow said she

    (ccccome? said he
    ummmm said she)
    you’re divine!said he
    (you are Mine said she)

    Do you get the message,
    morons?

  26. avatar Ade Wanto says:

    Why they (west) always impose us to follow them? And think that we are bad men, bad people and bad country? I can’t understand here some people are deceived them and think that they are the only right side.

    Who are they, Serious Man? I do not think this is a matter between West and East. In all society there are stereotypes about others – I prefer say an old perspectives. This is a matter between “ours” and “others”.

    Who was decide “ours” and “others” in modern world? They are Media Moguls who own the world as Alvin Toffler say in “The Third Wave,” “Information is power.” And, of course, you have already knew who dominate the media.

    However, in this flat world – I pick it up from Thomas Friedman’s “The Flat World” – we thanks to the internet. Internet has changed people news consumption. And, through internet, I believe, other meets other. Other people can talk other people. Then we make better understanding between “the other” and “the other”.

    US Govt will tax all dot.com companies. But, I really hope, it won’t happen. That will destroy existence of internet for global community as a vehicle to log in the world. Who is behind this thing? Again, the Media Mogul can not sleep well after internet struck their business.

    Despite what can happen to the internet in near future. The world today still the same. As Marin Sorescu said,

    To make the one world in which we live
    most comfortable
    with a glass wall we have divided it
    into the zones

    For the world shake, we must break the wall. We must hardly blow, as Scorpions say, “Wind of Change.” I think Indonesians have a better chance to do that. Cause Indonesians have Pancasila, the one and only foundation among nations which accompanying diversities, Bhinneka Tunggal Ika.

    As global member, we face some great threaten which will obsolete human race:

    – Global Viruses (HIV, Anthrax, Bird’s Flu)
    – Global Warming
    – Nuclear Missiles

    Polygamy? What is it? It belongs to individual and private matter. Not Government business. Nor CEDAW. Nor other feminist movement. Indeed, nor non-Moslems issue. I do not want my bedroom’s issue control by Government Officer. Do you want it?

    Me? Anti American pathetic? Don’t go any wrong way, Dude.

  27. avatar Sylvester says:

    Like any other people in the world, generally American are good. Most of them oppose drugs, abortion (Bush is also anti-abortion although I do not like him), same sex marriage, etc.
    Ade wanto statement obviously shows his hate over all american, or even all western people. Nothing good from the mind filled with hatred, poor guys. It is useless to read a lot of books if the heart and mind are not in peace. No good comment can be expected from such guy.

    Polygamy? What is it? It belongs to individual and private matter. Not Government business. Nor CEDAW. Nor other feminist movement. Indeed, nor non-Moslems issue. I do not want my bedroom’s issue control by Government Officer. Do you want it?

    Ha ha funny, tell this to your fellow radicals that want to enforce sharia together with the polygamy. Radical moslem want to change UU perkawinan 1974.

  28. avatar Janma says:

    Actually Ade Wanto, one of the reasons we have laws and government is to protect the weak and disempowered. Most Muslim women are disempowered. they are forced into polygamy under the guise of being a good muslim or a good wife. they have no power to protect or support their children without the husband and he dictates their entire lives and those of the children.

    Actually Muhammad (God bless him) didn’t really support polygamy, he quite clearly says that there are strict conditions to adhere to in the case of polygamy and also says those conditions are almost impossible to fullfil, that is hardly a green light for polygamy! He didn’t want his own daughter subjected to it! but the way you hear muslim men go on about it, they make it sound like its their duty as muslims to marry four wives, they never talk about the other side of that responsibility. They want what they want, they have base desires and maybe they want prestige, it’s not about protecting war widows, so if they want to practice proper polygamy according to islam, then go to sudan and take care of the widows and the children there, don’t just use the koran to satisfy your own personal lust.

    I’m glad if the laws of the country protect these women and their children, because no one else can do anything to help them.

    Imagine those men who practice polygamy having to accept their wives having another man, or even talking to another man! They can’t handle it! They would fly into a stoning rage! But they expect these women and their children to just aquiese quietly to their taking another wife, usually younger and prettier and the wives must accept in order to be a good muslim or a good wife. That stinks man!

    I’m not much one for liking the government interfering with personal life of people, but sometimes the law is there to protect people who can’t protect themselves. and in this case I agree with it.
    It’s quite telling that you said “I don’t want my bedrooms issue control by government officer.” You do realise that these women are not just bedroom furniture don’t you? this isn’t about sex. You can have sex with whomever you bloody like, the government won’t give a toss. this is about the right of women to protect their children, their security and their rights as human beings. can you even imagine how it is for these women? can you imagine how their hearts burn, which is just the emotional side, but they are also plagued with insecurity, because they depend on their men for their lives and the lives of their children. Even if they are pro-polygamy, it’s normally just for show, so they will get the favor of their husband, because if they don’t he will just divorce her and turn her out anyway, without even checking the Koran to see if it’s allowed!

    Plus, who are you calling heartdead????!!!! the reason we don’t support polygamy is because of empathy, which hardly means our hearts are dead! Those who support it on the other hand??? You figure it out.

  29. avatar Achmad Sudarsono says:

    Janma,

    As usual, blahdy-blah blah. Rights, rights, rights. This is what happens to women when they get over westernized (kebarat-baratan) and opinionated.

    Friend – the Koran is polygamy is ok? No? Or perhaps could it be you’re putting a western-feminist spin on the ayat concerning polygamy?

    Friend, As A.A. Gym said, “woman is mono, man is stereo”. Why in god’s name should I have the same woman in my bed, day in, day out, year in, year out? That is why god provided polygamy, to save us from Zina.

    Woman’s deepest desire is to serve her man. God has given man the task of helping to spread Islam by multiplying its adherents and getting Woman to up good Muslims.

    Why is this so hard for some people to understand? And please don’t start bringing up dungaree-wearing, hairy arm-pitted feminists again. They’re only tangential to this debate.

  30. avatar Janma says:

    I don’t like dungaree’s. I think they’re ugly.

    Plus why are women mono? I don’t think they are, otherwise why would men be so concerned about adultery?

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