Batam Radio
September 14th, 2007, in News, by PatungView the original article here.
Tags: Batam, Broadcasting, Christianity, Falun Gong, Media, Radio, Religion, Singapore
71 Comments on “Batam Radio”
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Janma Says:
October 8th, 2007 at 9:00 pmChaos is not a no god theory, and we are talking of processes that took trillions of years to organize themselves!
You are right, READ! -
Hassan Says:
October 9th, 2007 at 4:53 pmJanma:
It’s not about how long it takes, but about how could it possibly happen on the first place, from the big bang up to now. You haven’t answered my questions:
All I see Janma, is a perfect planning, organization, and system that even the smartest of humans will not be able to achieve, and I see it happening throughout the universe.
1. Did the atoms and neutrons do those things themselves? If that’s the case then the atoms are smarter than us, aren’t they?
2. Do they have their own microchip or brain that can think of all that? Then perhaps they are the higher intelligence, obviously more intelligent and organized than humans.
3. Again, how did the respective atoms learn to behave according to the quantum physics and thermodynamics theory? Or whatever sets of universal laws for that matter.
and we are talking of processes that took trillions of years to organize themselves!
Yes, but how did those processes arrange themselves? Why did they choose to arrange themselves? Who told them to do that? Did the whole universal matters decide to held a ‘conference’ and told each other what to do in order to achieve synergy among them.
Just throw garbage in you room, do you think in a trillion years it will clean itself (given the conditions remain the same and the garbage is indestructible by time)? Or like my previous example, just throw truckloads of sand on an empty patch of land, would they organize themselves into an empire state sized building with all it’s fully functional amenities in a trillion years?
It’s impossible! Yet an intelligent person like you will say it is possible just to write God off the equation. Amazing!
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Janma Says:
October 9th, 2007 at 5:44 pmcapek deh! I never said God is out of the equation!!!!!! just said that it’s a metaphor the way it’s explained in religions….. though I don’t personally believe in a personal god organizing things the way you do, I don’t deny that it could have happened, just don’t think it was the 7 day people made from clay version!
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dewaratugedeanom Says:
October 9th, 2007 at 7:22 pm@Janma
Your posts from October 7th and 8th are very well stated. I’ll archive them up.
But it’s hopeless to argue with creationists because they start with the premise that religion (i.e. their own conviction) always had and must have the last say. For them it is not a matter of intellectual fairness but fear of losing their paradigm. -
Janma Says:
October 9th, 2007 at 7:40 pmThanks, I was frustrated! I’m still willing to consider the possiblity of God, but the willingness on the part of relgionists too accept anything other than their own dogma is nil.
Janma.
*I may not agree with what you say, but I’ll defend to the death your right to say it* -
October 9th, 2007 at 11:14 pmJanma:
capek deh! I never said God is out of the equation!!!!!!
It seemed I missed your point, my apologies.I don’t deny that it could have happened, just don’t think it was the 7 day people made from clay version!
About the universe was created in 7 days thing, here’s some food for thought and and a logical explanation about that matter:
- A day on earth is equal to the time it takes for the earth to perform a single rotation.
- When He created the universe, God was not on earth (quite obviously).
- Which means, a day by God’s account is not the same as a day by our account.
- In the Holy Scriptures, God only said He created it in 7 days. He didn’t say “7 days by humans’ account” then He most likely meant 7 days by His account.
- We don’t know how long a day lasts where God started the creation of the universe, it could mean 7 ages or 7 epochs by our standard, which makes sense.And about people are made of clay:
- A cake was made mainly using flour, but there are other ingredients as well: eggs, sugar, baking powder, etc. The same goes with humans, the basic ingredient is clay, but obviously there are other ingredients used: water, etc.
- A finished cake will not have the same characteristics as flour, especially the ‘wet’ cakes. The same logic goes for humans.
- Don’t forget there’s another aspect of a human being: the soul. Now that one is surely way too complex to have been created by random accidents and self-organization.just said that it’s a metaphor the way it’s explained in religions”¦.
Yes, analogies and metaphors are important since the Holy Scriptures were sent to medieval people who still doesn’t have a basic grasp of science, God chose wordings that those people can relate to in His revelations, hence some of His words sounded simplistic and filled with analogies and metaphors so it will be easier for those people to understand.
dewaratugedeanom:
For them it is not a matter of intellectual fairness but fear of losing their paradigm.
First of all, we do not fear loosing our paradigm. Second of all, do you think intellect will solve all of our problems, or will reveal everything we need to know?
The devil was banished from heaven not because he was dumb, he was actually smart. He argued why should he bow down to Adam if he was made of fire while Adam was from dirt. That probably showed intellectual fairness, didn’t it? But his undoing was his own arrogance and insolence in front of God.
The devil’s downfall could be humans’ as well, when we put intellect above faith in God’s wisdom. Intelligent is important, I’m not saying that we should just be dumb followers of faith, but we will never be smart enough to know about anything, above God’s wisdom and knowledge. Anti-creationists are only paving the way into such catastrophe, that the devil had gave precedent.
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Pakmantri Says:
October 12th, 2007 at 1:19 pmI think it must be the ancient being from another galaxy who dropped by earth millions of years ago, planted the seed and started the evolution process ……………… ;-).
Anyway, what’s all of this got to do with Batam Radio?
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October 13th, 2007 at 9:18 pmRaden:
Hasan, it is your right to label me an atheist
Perhaps I should have said “my extremist agnostic friend”.
I never put my measurement to others like you
In what way did I put my measurement to others? I might have missed it or have forgotten about it, so please enlighten me.
it is unlikely I will follow your Quran, there are others like Budha, Hindu, Christian which are in higher list of mine
You are responsible for your own choice.
The reason is very simple, you guys are pathetic as seeing others as kafir & haram
If we remember that kafir=disbelievers & haram=things that God have forbidden us to do/eat then whatever religion you might chose Raden, actually there are always disbelievers and forbidden things according to EVERY religion. If you embrace Buddhism for example, then non-Buddhist are disbelievers (kafir) in their point of view. If you’re a Hindu, then killing cow is forbidden (haram) for you.
So perhaps you shouldn’t be to hooked up with jargons, and look at the true meaning of the words. These things are the same in every religion.
beside my face is totally different than Arab, so why should I?
I can make a safe guess that your face is different than the people of India, so why should you be a Hindu? And your face us is also different than the White people, so why should you be a Christian? What’s your logic, Raden? Do you think religion must relate to ethnicity? How do you reason?
that’s why we label you as extremist.
And Arabs are equal to extremism? Or did you think I wanted to imitate Arabic culture? No, I was trying to follow what my religion prescribed me to do. Islam does not equal to Arabic culture.
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Janma Says:
October 13th, 2007 at 9:41 pmhassan, not all christians are white people! the first christians were semetic, just like muslims!!!!!!!!! Plus hinduism in bali they eat cows… so theory crash… check again.
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October 13th, 2007 at 10:04 pmJanma:
hassan, not all christians are white people! the first christians were semetic, just like muslims!!!!!!!!!
And not all Muslims are Arabs, as Raden insinuated it to be. I was just trying to make Raden see the picture with such examples, that religion must not be related to ethnicity.
Raden: “beside my face is totally different than Arab, so why should I?”
About the fact that Balinese Hindus eat cows, it might be correct but that was not my point. I was just trying to show Raden that ‘kafir’ and ‘haram’ exists on other religions as well, in one version or another or in one way or the other. And I humbly think that the examples I gave suffice for that purpose.
PS. Did you read my post about the 7 days and clay thing (on October 9th, in this thread) Janma? It’s irrelevant to this issue, but I would like to hear your take on it.
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Janma Says:
October 14th, 2007 at 2:24 amSorry, Hassan, I rushed my last post on that one, kids hassling me! You are right, you were giving an example.
Plus, I did read your post the other day but haven’t replied yet cause haven’t had enough of clear thinking space to think about it, plus you lost me a bit when you used the words ‘logical explanation’ and then went on to say that God was not on earth when he created it’, and humans having clay involved in their making. I know that sounds logical to you because you tend to take literally scriptures that I find allegorical and totally illogical, so the wind went out of me a bit, you know, I just put it all in the too hard basket.
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