Live In Programs
Sep 5th, 2007, in News, by PatungMuslim-Christian live-in programs.
Religious Violence
In some of the last years of General Suharto’s rule, around 1996-97, the province of East Java saw a sharp upturn in instances of anti-Christian violence, resulting in about 100 churches being burned down or vandalised, about 20 of them on a single day in October 1996 in the town of Situbondo.
A Catholic church burns in Situbondo.
A minister from the Jawi Wetan church (GKJW) in Malang, Reverend Gunawan, says these events, which:
started in Pasuruan and had their climax in Situbondo
caused him to wonder
it was strange, people who had lived together peacefully for so long became so angry
and resulted in him meeting with various Muslim clerics in Malang and arranging a live-in program in which young Muslims would spend some time sharing the home of a Christian family, and young Christians would stay at Islamic boarding schools, to gain understanding of life on the other side of the sectarian divide,.
Living In
Gunawan says that when Christians go to live with Muslims they learn that:
There are a lot of positives about Islamic boarding schools, they’re not all terrorist breeding grounds.
The live-in program began under the auspices of the Balewiyata Theological Institute in Malang. Former director of the Institute, Suwignyo, says the government insists on pigeon-holing and labelling people as belonging to one religion, and encourages them to live according to that religion’s precepts, but there is no reason he says why there can’t be mixing and communication across the boundaries.
The program is held once a year, in February, and live-in volunteers participate in all aspects of the host families’ activities, including going to church or mosque. On the Muslim side the program is run by the Shiratul Fuqoha school, which is owned by the family of Muhammad Najib Ghoni, usually called Gus Najib.
Mission & Jihad
Gus Najib says the program has helped lessen his suspicions about Christianization:
Maybe from living-in I can find out whether Christianization is really happening, I can see how Christians get their funds and whether it is true they get back-up funds from the West. I used to think that was happening, but they welcomed me and they answered every question that I asked. I even sat in on their church councils.
One Muslim volunteer, Mas’ut Zakaria, a student from the Shiratul Fuqoha school, says getting to know some Christians brings about a feeling of solidarity with them and makes it much less likely that he will be easily provoked when problems between the two communities arise.
While Muslims worry about Christianization attempts, specifically on the Christian use of the word mission, Christians often worry about Islam and violence, or the Muslim use of the word jihad. Suwignyo says however the program has enabled Christians to learn that not all understandings of “jihad” are bound up in violence.
Un-Islamic
Gus Najib says of the program’s effects on him:
We are all a part of a much wider whole, how can we cut ourselves off from that whole? The point is in the world there is not just Islam, and there are many types of Islam, just as there are many types of non-Islam. We must not wish that the whole world become a part of Islam, that is against the law of God.
But some of Gus Najib’s friends, even those since childhood, accuse him of having lost his “Islamicness”, and even threaten him, and oppose the program fiercely.
Un-Christian
On the other side Suwignyo says he sometimes has trouble finding church members who are willing to take Muslims into their homes.
Success
On the whole however he says the program has been a success and has now expanded to include those of other faiths such as local Buddhists and Hindus. ranesi
71 Comments on “Live In Programs”
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Colson says:
Every initiative that counters sermons of hate, is welcome. This looks like such a program. Although – like usually is the case with kind, idealistic plans – it will probably have a limited reach; only “people of good will” will participate, I’m afraid.
However, it deserves a lot of support; two cheers for reverend Gunawan.
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Sylvester says:
Excellent job. Hope more programs like this to reduce radicalism in both religions, so people can live in harmony. This is a great way to counter people like FPI and HTI, and even hardliner Christians.
Indonesia needs all people work together to build the country, forget about hatred or ambition to create religious state. -
Aluang Anak Bayang says:
Why should we good Muslim arrange our faithfuls to live-in with dirty non-believers? We are the one destroying their properties and burning their place of worships so they won’t be punished by Allah Subhana Wata’ala for worshipping the lesser Gods.
Salam.
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Jokoboyo says:
How many madrasah do we have in Indonesia? It may take 100 years for Gunawan to visit one by one, I doubtful with the benefits of doing so.
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dewaratugedeanom says:
I have serious doubts that this kind of programs with young people, although they are well intended, will have success. Although theoretically the children could be positively influenced, there is too much suspicion with the adults and religious leadership on both sides because of the possibility of proselytizing and dakwah, practices for which both Islam and Christianity have a penchant. Look what happened to the three Christian women (I forgot their names but there has been a thread about them in this forum) that were jailed because they were suspected trying to convert children while running some kind of taman kanak .
Isn’t it amazing that this kind of problems don’t show up with other religions like Buddhism, Hinduism, Taoism, Confucianism or even Atheism? Could it be that this kind of proselytizing behaviour is inherent on ‘prophetic’ religions which are dualistic in nature (God juxtaposed to Creation) and which constantly try to instigate feelings of guilt and shame? Usually once a person submits and feels guilty, he/she becomes one-track minded and can be easily manipulated.IMHO these kind of programs should be intended in the first place for higher educated people or even ‘celebrities’ who then in turn can spread their newly acquired knowledge and insight by giving example and becoming role models.
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Boni says:
Good point dewaratugedeanom, that included the top hierarchy from FPI or Laskar Mujahideen as well.
Aluang Anak Bawang, ……. Others promote tolerance, love, and peace. You the only one who promote violence.
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Peter says:
Aluang Anak Bayang said:
Salam.
You should sign your posts “fitnah” instead, Mr. Provocateur.
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Dear ignorant posters,
What I meant was that if these live-in Christians take the shahada, “la ilaha illa’llah wa Muhammad rasulu’llah.” with the host family as witnesses, then all will be peace and tolerant. Muslims are simple people, we don’t ask for more. Remember that ONLY Islam is acceptable to humankind’s creator, and we have proof that it is the one true religion.
Aluang Anak Bawang, ……..
Alhumdullilah, may Allah bless you, and direct you to the right path.
…..Others promote tolerance, love, and peace. You the only one who promote violence.
As long as there are other Gods to be worshipped, there won’t be peace and tolerance. Darul Salam can only come about when there the world is Darul Islam.
You should sign your posts “fitnah” instead, Mr. Provocateur.
Camping in each other house do not promote tolerance, when it is only the Muslim hosts sacrificing their holy abodes for dirty kaffirs. There will be a huge cleansing job done after the kaffirs left. We do not allow non-Muslims anywhere near Mecca for fear that they will dirty our holy land. Why then should we allow dirty kaffirs to our home?
Salam.
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Daniel Khaleel says:
I have a feeling that it could be more beArable for non-believers on the day of judgement than for you Aluang.
Even the worst criminals know that killing is wrong. Even the most hardened atheist know that it is wrong to kill. You don’t need to be a believer to know this. Why do these people know that these things are wrong? Because, God’s law is written on the heart of man.
You on the other hand, seem to think killing an infidel is halal. You believe the means justifies the end. I have to disagree. Allah is most merciful and compassionate. You still have time to repent and learn to love. You would be surprised at Allahs love and mercy. Embrace it. Don’t you know that you will be held accountable for all of your words on the day of judgement? Do you think that Allah will take kindly to being portrayed as a God of hate? There is only one god who hates mankind. his name is satan. My God gives life. satan seeks to destroy life and make life unbeArable. Who do you worship?
I’ve asked you this question before, but you did not answer it. If Allah is all wise and powerful – why don’t you leave the “infidels” to him and you live your own life. Surely Allah will right all wrongs in the end. Benar?
I’m trying to avoid this type of argument because I want to avoid two things:
– misrepresenting Allah in anyway (I don’t claim to have infinite wisdom to speak on Allah’s behalf)
– giving people reason to believe that religion is the cause of all the worlds problems (the problems of the world are a human issue, not a religion issue)You are human Aluang. Ask yourself how you would like to be treated and then go and do that for others.
Grace and peace
Daniel Khaleel
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Augusto says:
Dear Daniel,
You sound like a “Christian-Muslim’. Do you read the bible or the quran. If you are reading the quran all what you said about those peace and love for the kuffar is never in it. All there is to it is kill or behead the kuffar. Or maybe you were refering to the bible when you were talking about those sweet things?
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By grace of Allah Subhana Wata’ala.
Assalamualaikum mas Daniel Khaleel,
I don’t know which dimension you are speaking from, but killing and sex with captured slaves are good for Muslims when needs arise. Why were there fatwas for the head of Salman Rushdie and Wafa Sultan? Why did the whole ulamahs cheer when planes slammed into buildings? Why do our Islam’s perfect role model, prophet Mohammad (peace be upon him) insisted to have sex with Safiyyah on the same day he ordered her husband tortured and then beheaded? Why should we ignore this verse (below) and many verses that calls for the elimination of unbelievers? This is not a mere book we are following. It is the words of our creator, the same God that Christians and Muslims worshipped.
Quran-2:216, Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you
You on the other hand, seem to think killing an infidel is halal.
Sorry Daniel, you are misrepresenting Allah Subhana Wata’ala, and your penalty is death by beheading after Friday sermon. You are lucky this is Indonesian – land of pseudo-Muslims who are not following the right religion Allah had prescribed for them. All verses in the holy quran say that killing infidels is halal. Show me a verse in the quran that says otherwise.
I’ve asked you this question before, but you did not answer it. If Allah is all wise and powerful – why don’t you leave the “infidels” to him and you live your own life. Surely Allah will right all wrongs in the end. Benar?
Allah Subhana Wata’ala had rained down earthquakes and tsunami on fake Muslim Javanese and Achehnese for tolerating Christians. Allah had sent thunderstorm to the US and recently fire and flood to the najis Greek. Allah punished the Australian with drought. Yes Allah had done His part, and we are doing ours. See verse again,
Quran-2:216, Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you
Read the quran before you post anything silly. Verses and quotes I had pasted are from the holy Quran, authentic hadithes and well-respected Islamic scholars.
Salam.
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Hi Augusto,
I am a follower of Christ. I hope to show my love for God by following Christ. The creed that I confess is:
“Love the Lord your God with all of your heart, all of your soul, all of your mind, and all of your strength. and love your neighbour as yourself.”
I love Indonesians and I love Muslims. I’m sad to see the damage that extremism is doing to such a beautiful people. It causes fear and death. Both fear and death are the works an an enemy. I have a basic knowledge of the scripture that Aluang quotes, but I don’t try to argue with him at that level (I am not a scholar of the Quran). I hope to reach him at the level of his humanity.
Aluang is a human being and as such I will love him and hope the best for him regardless of his dangerous beliefs.
I also refuse to allow him to speak for Islam. Just as Aluang can argue the case for hate and death, I have heard Muslims easily argue the case for peace and life.
Grace and Peace.
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Hi Aluang,
God did not send those natural disasters that you mention to this world. The world is in entropy and these things are unavoidable. I’d also like to point out that by your logic, the Iranians are also fake Muslims. Do you recall the terrible earthquakes that hit Iran? And the Acehnese? They were trying to obtain Sharia, yet they received terrible disaster. Do you believe that was Allah? I don’t.
Please think (with your heart) about what you’re saying. I don’t believe that God sends these disasters, but he can use them for his good. In the 2005 tsunami we saw humanity unite to bring relief. That was a great expression of the universal love that exists in every heart.
You remind me of the religious leaders in Jerusalem at the time of Jesus. They assumed that because of their title they would inherit salvation. Jesus contrasted them to the sinner who would not raise his head to God, but lowered his eyes, beat his chest and confessed “have mercy on me – a sinner”. That sinner was the one who would be lifted up by God, while the proud pharasees would be humbled. By your standards Aluang, consider me an infidel. By Gods standards, consider me forgiven and loved.
I’m thankful that I’m accepted based on God’s grace and not by yours.
Grace and Peace
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Djoko says:
“O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise (each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things).”
“Hai manusia, Kami telah menciptakan kamu dari laki-laki dan perempuan, dan Kami jadikan kamu berbangsa-bangsa dan bersuku-suku, supaya kamu saling mengenal. Sesungguhnya yang paling mulia di antara kamu di sisi Allah adalah yang paling taqwa”
يا أيها الناس إنا خلقناكم من ذكر وأنثى وجعلناكم شعوبا وقبائل لتعارÙوا إن أكرمكم عند الله أتقاكم إن الله عليم خبير. (الØجرات، 13).
al-Hujraat (49):13
Don’t despise one another.
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Thanks brother Djoko. Continued …
Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you.
Muslims are taught to love Mohammad the prophet more than anybody and anything in the world. He was best of creation, and a mercy sent to the earth by Allah. All Muslims believe that Mohammad was faultless, sinless and perfect. Here are more Quranic proofs:
Quran 33:56 says “Verily, God and His angels pray for the prophet. O ye who believe! pray for him and salute him with a salutation!.”
Quran 4:80 “He who obeys the Messenger (Muhammad SAW), has indeed obeyed Allah.” This verse reveals Mohammad is equal to Allah.
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Daniel Khaleel,
God did not send those natural disasters that you mention to this world…..
O dear, you don’t read news, do you? I do not want to repeat myself over and over again. When disasters befell Indonesians, the whole Islamic world decries the sinful behaviour of Indonesian Muslims with serve-you-right dicta ‘punishment from Allah’. I did not say these things, I am merely rehashing what these Islamic clerics said.
In the 2005 tsunami we saw humanity unite to bring relief. That was a great expression of the universal love that exists in every heart.
Infidel countries donned the mask of humanity and tried to misled more of our people. Islamic countries with Allah Subhana Wata’ala on their side were smart not to donate too much as Indonesian Muslims are ‘heretic’ by their standard.
By your standards Aluang, consider me an infidel. By Gods standards, consider me forgiven and loved.
You have a way of twisting words. I will rephrase these for you,
By Allah and prophet Mohammad’s standard, consider me an infidel. By a lesser God’s standard, consider me forgiven and loved.
Salam.
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Aluang,
There is nothing more to say except for –
You are loved. In grace and peace, may God bless you.In Christ,
Daniel Khaleel. -
By grace of Allah Subhana Wata’ala.
Assalamualaikum Daniel Khaleel,
May Allah open your heart, and show you the right path.
Salam.
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Bas says:
Daniel and Aluang, why not leaving your old and irrational religions and beliefs and admit there is no God. Or at least if there is one (and there is not one), that he doesn’t care at all about the humankind and about what you may do or not.
Who the hell do you think you are to think a GOD has created you and even more insanely is looking at you from I don’t know where… Hey.. you are nothing, just primates with a big brain, just like me. Stop thinking a God has written your lives and is always looking at your behaviour. Religious people are just insane and have such a big big ego, be good because you wanna be good, not to please an inexistant God guys.
But.. well… since you are all insane.. I think you will just keep on insulting and killing each other. Please do! The less religious people there is the better the humankind will become.
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@aluang anak bayang: “I do not want to repeat myself over and over again”, you said.
But, as a matter of fact, you do. See, that’s exactly why your comments get so predictable and boring.Especially a the devil’s advocate like you, should be witty, surprising or startling every now and then.
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Hi Bas,
Thanks for the personal attack. You are a strong and wise man (or woman).
By the mere fact that you deny there is a God, you assert that you have infinite knowledge to know that for sure.
Do you have infinite knowledge Bas?
Even the more knowledgeable philosophers and scientists have have dropped the “there is no God” claim because they see the stupidity of that claim.
At least call yourself agnostic. Say “I have seriously considered the evidence on hand, but I am not yet convinced, for or against, that there is a God, but I am open to learn”.
But of course, you already know. You have infinite knowledge. Good job Bas.
Daniel.
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Hi again Bas,
I also noticed that you don’t seem to have read the posts with any great depth. Only one person here is advocating killing. No other Christian or Muslim on this blog is advocating that.
But, in your infinite knowledge I thought you’d be aware that killing has definately been the mandate of the naturalistic atheists in the 20th centure. 130 million people murdered by Chairman Mao, Pol Pot, Hitler, Stalin – read the figures.
Bas, the heart of the human problem is the problem of the human heart. Until you can fix that, you will always see these problems.
I mean no offense to you in anyway.
Daniel.
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Odinius says:
Daniel, read aluang’s posts again, he’s decidedly not being serious, pulling your leg, actually. 😉 Aaaaannnyways, I’m all for this program, but I do find the idea of this gus guy sneaking around his Christian host’s home, trying to find “evidence” that “the west” is supporting their “Christianization program.” Talk about an ignoramus, funny, since virtually every Indonesian I know has both Muslim and Christian friends.
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Dear Khaleel,
You sure do sound like a Christian now when you said:
The creed that I confess is:
“Love the Lord your God with all of your heart, all of your soul, all of your mind, and all of your strength. and love your neighbour as yourself.”Well then, do you believe in trinity? I have a hard time understanding it, could please explain it to me in your simple English please.
I love Indonesians and I love Muslims.
Are you saying there are two groups of people now in Indonesia? And which one do you love more, Muslims or Indonesians? Very islamic way of division huh?
I’m sad to see the damage that extremism is doing to such a beautiful people.
Which extremism Khaleel? Who are the perpetrators? And what are their goals?
It causes fear and death. Both fear and death are the works an an enemy.
Who is the enemy Khaleel? I have the feeling you are referring to the Jews for that fear and death thing. It sounds a lil like “cast terror into the enemies hearth”.
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Hi Augusto,
I’m not sure how to read your post to me. Is it honest questioning? As I have said previously in some of these blog entries, I want to avoid arguments of religious natures. My posts have been in response to extremist viewpoints put forward by Aluang.
Now, in response to your questions:
I believe in God. I’m sorry I won’t be able to satisfy your desire to understand the trinity. Here is my feable attempt. The trinity is a term developed by theologians early in Church history as a way to express the nature of God. One God that presents himself in three persons – God the Father, God the Son (Jesus), and God the Holy Spirit. I didn’t make the term up and if someone were to make another term to describe this nature of God my faith wouldn’t crumble. My faith is based on relationship, not theory. The point is – one God. Similiar to humans – we have a Soul (mind, heart, emotions), Body, and Spirit (the absolute core of us that lives on).I do not categorise Indonesians into two groups. I guess a better way of communicating this is – from the 6 years or so that I have been involved with Indonesia (through business and students) I have very much loved the warm, freindly, and accepting nature. My “I love Muslims” comment is in response to Aluangs consistent expressed intent to see non-believers become Muslim or be conquered. I love Muslims as they are, for who they are. I was not referring to Indonesian Muslims alone, but all Muslims, including members of the Iranian Muslim community with which I am friends.
Extremism is the viewpoint being espoused by Aluang when he calls for Sharia implementation. Extremism is the teaching that encourages young Indonesian Muslims to drive a car full of explosives to the Mariott hotel, Australian embassy, or Sari Club in Bali and kill others and themselves. Extremism is the videos that I have seen that shows victims of religious conflict in Poso and Ambon. Extremism are the news I hear of women being stoned for alleged adultery in the middle-east under Sharia implementation. The perpetrators are those that take away free will to choose our own religion. Their goals are to see the enforced Islamisation (or in the case of one poster here, the enforced Arabisation) of the world.
The enemy is the one that Jesus Christ referred to when he said “The enemy comes to rob, kill, and destroy. I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full” The bible refers to the enemy as satan. Any person who seeks to rob, kill, or destroy are doing the works of an enemy.
In response to your last statement about Jews: I acknowledge the rights of Israel to live in peace in their own state. I am also a supporter of human rights and I plead for the freedom of the Palestinian people. The scriptures say that the promised land belongs to the seed of Abraham. If I read my scriptures correctly, the seed of Abraham includes both Arabs and Jews. I am the person who waits for the day when guns and violence will no longer be heard. I will speak out against any person who perpetrates violence – from any religion. I am vehemently against the Jewish incursions into Palestinian territories, as I am strongly against the firing of rockets from Hizbollah into Israel.
Here is a scripture that we can both relate to from the Hebrew Prophet Isaiah:
He will judge between the nations and will settle disputes for many peoples. They will beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will not take up sword against nation, nor will they train for war anymore. (Isaiah 2:4)
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Dear forum contributors,
When I said, “Why should we good Muslim arrange our faithfuls to live-in with dirty non-believers? We are the one destroying their properties and burning their place of worships so they won’t be punished by Allah Subhana Wata’ala for worshipping the lesser Gods.”, I was trying to prevent Allah’s wraths. We all seen or at least knew about the tsunamis and earthquakes on my people. Daniel Khaleel even accuse me of being a extremist!
I questioned the perspicacity of this pyjamas ‘sleep-over’ parties when this is clearly not in the best interest of our Allah’s prescript. Pyjamas parties are for Bules’ junior grade students. Reverend Gunawan must have had his education in a Western country to come up with such silly idea.
Muslims are constantly being picked on, even in this forum. My harmless posting score a -6. Jokoboyo would have scored -7 if I had not given him a +1. Anyway, inshallah, one day you guys will find true guidance.
Salam.
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Hi Bas,
Religious people are just insane and have such a big big ego, be good because you wanna be good, not to please an inexistant God guys.
Only a goose would say that. I can’t see why you should slander Mother Teresa.
When the holy quran talks about scientific miracles like the Big Bang, turbo engines, correcting the bible, and went as far as claiming to be from the Lord of the universe, one has to take notice.
Salam.
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Tomaculum says:
Are there still people don’t understand Aluang, A. Sudarsono or Cukurungan? My, my ……
What he is trying to say:
“Guys, you believe in such things you call religions and worship such figures you call Gods with such things you name “their words”. You don’t even notice if I show you the absurdity of such beliefs and its rat-tails of complications in our life ….”Isn’t it so; Aluang??? 🙂
Btw: my best friends are a Muslim and a budhist, my wife is evangelic, my brother is a Muslim too, a good friend of our family is a Hindu, my children and I are agnostic. We have always done the “live-in”.
And the insight? “It is important to be a good human and it is important to work to earn money to live good.”
Amen. -
Mas toma, tell us where you live so we will stay away from your Sodom & Gomorah area. God’s wrath will be upon people like you.
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Aluang Anak Bayang said:
Remember that ONLY Islam is acceptable to humankind’s creator, and we have proof that it is the one true religion.
Not all of them are alike: of the people of the book are a portion that stand (For the right): they rehearse the Signs of Allah all night long, and they prostrate themselves in adoration.
( سورة آل عمران , Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #113)And dispute ye not with the people of the book, except with means better (than mere disputation), unless it be with those of them who inflict wrong (and injury): but say, “We believe in the revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you; Our Allah and your Allah is one; and it is to Him we bow (in Islam).”
( سورة العنكبوت , Al-Ankaboot, Chapter #29, Verse #46)
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Brilliant. I am a big supporter of this type of program, particularly in Indonesia. We have seen successes with this type of program in Australia. It originally started with Christian / Jewish / Islamic live in programs, with each teenager required to spend time living in a house of the other faith. I believe that this plans to extend to involve people from any religion, including those who do not profess any religious affiliation such as Atheism (which I believe is a type of religion in itself).
The bottom line, in my point of view: we are all God’s creation and the lines that we draw between us are artificial. We all share similar needs, hopes, and ambitions. We should all make an effort to see beyond the religion barrier and get to know our neighbour and reach out to them in love.
I believe that the live in program will help to destroy the wrong assumptions that we’ve made.