Upper & Lower Body Pride

Jul 25th, 2011, in IM Posts, by

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128 Comments on “Upper & Lower Body Pride”

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  1. avatar Stevo says:
    September 12th, 2011 at 11:23 am

    So in summary Oigal; you object to the concept of fairness & equality for ALL people, regardless of gender, race, religion. Fair enough, at least you have finally grown the balls to say it out-right.

    Or do you really think that by me speaking out about injustice against men, I am somehow condoning injustice against women? This really serves to drive home how intolerant and narrow your views are.

    Any reasonable person can see the two things are not mutually exclusive. In all my posts I have spoken out against double standards and for equall and fair treatment of all people.

  2. avatar Stevo says:
    September 12th, 2011 at 11:38 am

    “I mean seriously… “This is ground control to Major Tom, your circuits on but there’s something wrong”

    I would like to see how you felt about this after having your career, reputation and family destroyed by a false rape complaint that was lodged against you by a fraudulent hooker trying to extort money.

    I have seen your type before, they are always the ones who scream loudest when it happens to them, which is often, as dishonest women see your kind as guliable.

  3. avatar Oigal says:
    September 12th, 2011 at 11:51 am

    Sorry Stevo its just plain weird (and that is the nicest word I can think of) logic to defend the rights of the poor down trodden Western Male by repeating such nonsense as

    While the liberal west shrills about the treatment of women in some Islamic states, they remain strangely muted about the gross injustices visited upon men in the west.
    Does the term chalk n cheese mean anything to you?

    I have heard figures of between 50 & 80% of rape complaints are false. This is from experienced investigating officers, not some academic dreamer. Its a big dark secret that they dare not talk about openly in the west.

    Mmmm You do lead with your chin don’t you…

    I would like to see how you felt about this after having your career, reputation and family destroyed by a false rape complaint that was lodged against you by a fraudulent hooker trying to extort money.

    Mmm and this happens how often, 80% of the time did I hear you quote? Do you really want to go down the track or isolating specfic instances of abuse here. Do you really want to talk about what happens to thousands of women every year in countries under harsh Sharia Law? Would some pictures help, plenty there in all their brutality for you to see. To suggest that Western Men have it bad in comparison to the vast majority of the world and in particular women is just ludicrous.

    Or are you suggesting Western Men adopt Sharia law where the rape victim needs four male witnesses.

    Keep em coming tho Stevo as a I will be a bit busy later in the week and have to have over Stevo howlers to someone else.

  4. avatar stevo says:
    September 12th, 2011 at 12:31 pm

    Do you really want to talk about what happens to thousands of women every year in countries under harsh Sharia Law? Would some pictures help, plenty there in all their brutality for you to see.

    Well aware of that Oigal. Are you aware that Sharia law inflicts equally brutal treatment upon men? Would you like some pictures of that?

    To suggest that Western Men have it bad in comparison to the vast majority of the world and in particular women is just ludicrous.

    Yeah I agree, ludicrous. Not sure why you felt the need to point that out however. Is it because you believe mistreating men in the west will some how help women in Iran ?

    Oigal You are begining to come across as a man who is overcompensating for some past wrongs. Most of the opinions you attack are coming out of your head, not mine.You need to fight those demons that are eating at you.

  5. avatar Lairedion says:
    September 12th, 2011 at 12:52 pm

    stevo, you have told us here we should get over racism. Obviously we can disagree with and criticize that position. Attacking goes more like this:

    I guess thats why your kind have murdered so many and burned so many books.

    Keep them coming.

  6. avatar Oigal says:
    September 12th, 2011 at 12:57 pm

    Are you aware that Sharia law inflicts equally brutal treatment upon men? Would you like some pictures of that?

    Honestly Stevo, you make it way too easy most of the time..Perhaps its because you have been so mistreated…

    As “L” said keep em coming :-).

  7. avatar deta says:
    September 12th, 2011 at 3:38 pm

    Perhaps its because you have been so mistreated…

    Another victim of feminazi? Are we getting a pattern here? :oops:

  8. avatar Lairedion says:
    September 12th, 2011 at 7:05 pm

    Another victim of feminazi? Are we getting a pattern here? :oops:

    Yeah deta, it’s a pattern. Just mention the “f” word and we can expect the usual torrent of insecurities, frustrations, inconsistencies and contradictions. Happened in the Dating and Gender threads and now here we are again.

  9. avatar bonni says:
    September 12th, 2011 at 10:03 pm

    Stevo, I think you should understand what feminism really is before stating so many arguments…

    And this…

    I have heard figures of between 50 & 80% of rape complaints are false. This is from experienced investigating officers, not some academic dreamer. Its a big dark secret that they dare not talk about openly in the west.

    Mens lives and families are destroyed on a daily basis by western women appealing to a corrupted legal system that assumes a women is always the victim. This results in broken men and kids lives destroyed by calculating manipulative women. This is reflected in the appalling suicide rates for men in the western world

    …really hurt me inside and out. Man… You’ll be sorry if you know how it feels to be raped, to be discriminated, to have a polyginy husband… Not to mention women circumcision, etc, etc.

    About the manipulative women -as you mentioned- it is a matter of personality…

    I am feminist but I don’t feel ‘intimidated’ when ‘men buy me drinks’. I love my family (my parents and siblings, all of them). I do have affection to men and kids. I am not a heartless b*tch.

    Or maybe you are talking about your problem here? Go ahead and tell us…

  10. avatar Stevo says:
    September 13th, 2011 at 3:53 am

    bonni, what are you talking about? I did not say I approve of those things. I said that I do not.

    Do you want to join the village idiots of Oigal & Lairedion in thinking that treating men badly will -some how- help improve things for women? Do you think excusing mistreatment of one group will help another?

    Can you explain how that works ?

    Female circumcision is a terrible thing. (So is male circumcision. Male circumcision is much more common and occurs in even in the West among non religioius people.)

    So who carries out this terrible proceedure on the little girls bonni? Is it Men or Women?

    Are Women any less religious than the men, or are women not really Muslims and only pretend to be because the men force them to?

  11. avatar Oigal says:
    September 13th, 2011 at 9:10 am

    Stevo, you do get yourself into suck a pickle. Here’s a tip for all your perceived injustices, both real and imaginary you do yourself no favours suggesting or even trying compare the tribulations of the average Western Male to the very real issues of the majority of women in the world.

    The reality is, the vast majority of the world is male dominated and regulated while for some of us Males that provides a significant advantage it also covers a very dark and nasty part of the human condition.

    Seriously just how bad is a western male treated…

  12. avatar Stevo says:
    September 13th, 2011 at 11:16 am

    Here is what Martin Luther King Jr. thought:

    “Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly. ”

    I tend to agree with his words.

    If we are serious about influencing positive change, for women, we need to have men buy into the concept. They are unlikely to do so if they believe that they will be treated unjustly as a result. This does not need to be a source of conflict if all people feel confident that they will be treated fairly and equally.

    I can’t understand why the concept of, justice for all people, is seen as a dismissal of a women’s rights. It is clearly not that.

  13. avatar bonni says:
    September 13th, 2011 at 12:20 pm

    Stevo,

    bonni, what are you talking about? I did not say I approve of those things. I said that I do not.

    Ok I take it as you did not say that. If you did, you’d better take it back.

    Do you want to join the village idiots of Oigal & Lairedion in thinking that treating men badly will -some how- help improve things for women? Do you think excusing mistreatment of one group will help another?

    Can you explain how that works ?

    My answer: Gender perspective, please have some.

    Female circumcision is a terrible thing. (So is male circumcision. Male circumcision is much more common and occurs in even in the West among non religioius people.)

    Isn’t male circumcision proven for health?

    Read some more.
    http://www.who.int/hiv/topics/malecircumcision/en/index.html
    http://www.circinfo.com/benefits/bmc.html
    http://www.malecircumcision.org/
    http://menshealth.about.com/cs/menonly/a/circumcision.htm

    So who carries out this terrible proceedure on the little girls bonni? Is it Men or Women?

    Again, read some more.
    http://www.cirp.org/news/smh01-13-04/

    Highlighted in link below that: The procedure of women circumcision has NO health benefits for girls and women.
    http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs241/en/

    About who carries out the procedure… Please check:
    REGULATION OF THE MINISTER OF HEALTH ON FEMALE CIRCUMCISION (INDONESIA).
    http://www.orchidproject.org/indonesia-ministry-of-healths-guidelines-on-female-genital-cutting/

    Are Women any less religious than the men, or are women not really Muslims and only pretend to be because the men force them to?

    Stevo, that’s not even a question to make… Oh dear…

  14. avatar bonni says:
    September 13th, 2011 at 12:53 pm

    I have a song especially for Stevo :)

    PAPER DOLL by The Mills Brothers

    I’m gonna buy a Paper Doll that I can call my own
    A doll that other fellows cannot steal
    And then the flirty, flirty guys with their flirty, flirty eyes
    Will have to flirt with dollies that are real

    When I come home at night she will be waiting
    She’ll be the truest doll in all this world
    I’d rather have a Paper Doll to call my own
    Than have a fickle-minded real live girl

    I guess I had a million dolls or more
    I guess I’ve played the doll game o’er and o’er
    I just quarrelled with Sue, that’s why I’m blue
    She’s gone away and left me just like all dolls do

    I’ll tell you boys, it’s tough to be alone
    And it’s tough to love a doll that’s not your own
    I’m through with all of them
    I’ll never ball again
    Say boy, whatcha gonna do?

    I’m gonna buy a Paper Doll that I can call my own
    A doll that other fellows cannot steal
    And then the flirty, flirty guys with their flirty, flirty eyes
    Will have to flirt with dollies that are real

    When I come home at night she will be waiting
    She’ll be the truest doll in all this world
    I’d rather have a Paper Doll to call my own
    Than have a fickle-minded real live girl

  15. avatar stevo says:
    September 13th, 2011 at 1:33 pm

    Thanks bonni, your very kind ;)

  16. avatar stevo says:
    September 13th, 2011 at 2:40 pm

    Oh and bonni, thanks also for the links. Thanks for backing me up on my little rant against double standards. I really do not think I need to say more. You have done it all for me.

    I was speaking out AGAINST genital mutilation of people and you come along and say its ok …… if they are male. My work here is done.

  17. avatar bonni says:
    September 13th, 2011 at 3:11 pm

    Stevo,

    I was speaking out AGAINST genital mutilation of people and you come along and say its ok …… if they are male. My work here is done.

    Oh no! Feminazi DETECTED!? LOL
    Did I hurt you, honey? OMG, I’m so sorry…

    Anyway, I said…

    Isn’t male circumcision proven for health?

    I didn’t say it’s ok :)

  18. avatar stevo says:
    September 13th, 2011 at 5:07 pm

    I am not convinced bonni. I suspect you are a femanazi who wants to cut bits off me. Maybe Lairedion & Oigal will lend you one of their dolls, you can cut away on that all you like ;)

  19. avatar bonni says:
    September 13th, 2011 at 5:14 pm

    Are you scared… ;)

  20. avatar stevo says:
    September 13th, 2011 at 5:30 pm

    I am not scared bonni , but only because that bit has already been cut off :)

  21. avatar Lairedion says:
    September 13th, 2011 at 5:35 pm

    My work here is done.

    What work, neng? The only thing what’s proven is that your a numpty with zero knowledge of Indonesia and all we had to do is copy-pasting your thoughtful comments. So damn easy…

    Personally I don’t want you to leave this site . Can’t get enough of your major league howlers.

  22. avatar stevo says:
    September 13th, 2011 at 5:43 pm

    Bad day at the office L ? lol

  23. avatar Lairedion says:
    September 13th, 2011 at 5:54 pm

    Nope, rereading your contributions and having a good laugh….

    By the way, if your missus (if you have one) is unfortunate enough to be a rape victim (and we do hope such a thing will never happen), please do remember what you have said here.

  24. avatar stevo says:
    September 13th, 2011 at 6:39 pm

    My ex wife was unfortunately raped repeatedly as a child and I know many others who have been victims of sustained abuse. I am not talking about my work in the justice system, just what I have encountered in my personal life. None were reported.

    The real question is; why even say that?

    Where have I condonned rape?

    Are you seriously advancing the idea that locking up innocent men somehow stops the guilty from raping?

    Or do you think if we convict innocent men it will make up for the guilty ones who were never pursued for their wrongs?

    It is people like you that make it hard for the real rape victims. Unlike you I get my ideas from the real world and don’t have the luxury of dealing with it as an intellectual exercise in feminist ideology. Real women want what really works, not the fawning of some social engineer who is neither use nor ornament to them.

  25. avatar Lairedion says:
    September 13th, 2011 at 6:45 pm

    Just tellin’ that with your statement up to 80 % rape cases are false you’re walking a thin rope. You have yet to backup that statement by referring to, in your words, experienced investigating officers, not some academic dreamer (links, documents anyone?).

    Really obsessed with putting us away as social engineers, leftists. book burners and murderers or whatever? Poor you.

  26. avatar stevo says:
    September 13th, 2011 at 7:32 pm

    I never said 80% of complaints were false. I did say I “had heard” that between 50-80% were. I also expressed doubts about those figures. Your getting desperate and resorting to lies…….. again.

    However I have been- personally- told by a very experienced detective that a great many complaints are false. (I remind you this is from a guy who has brought many rapists to justice and feels very strongly about the crime.)

    It is seldom that the woman is charged with a false complaint and if she is, the Courts give a pathetic sentence which further diminishes the crime of rape. Its an accepted part of the job, but no cop will say it publicly.

    (links, documents anyone?).

    No L, I am talking about the real world here.

    It appears that many (most?) rapes go unreported, but at the same time, many of the complaints received are without merit. Its a messed up situation that is not helped by hysterical idiots with an axe to grind ( hint hint).

    You just see the issue as a vehicle to promote yourself as a caring liberal guy who knows what women want, but your none of that. Some might say you mean well and may help improve things for women. I do not think so. You cloud rational debate with hidden agendas and self promotion.

    If you think rape is serious, then behave accourdingly. Most women want results and a fair deal, not your silly ideology.

  27. avatar bonni says:
    September 13th, 2011 at 8:08 pm

    I am not scared bonni , but only because that bit has already been cut off :)

    Thought so! LOL :P

    My ex wife was unfortunately raped repeatedly as a child

    Sorry twice…

  28. avatar Lairedion says:
    September 14th, 2011 at 12:04 am

    stevo,

    My ex wife was unfortunately raped repeatedly as a child

    I’m sorry to hear that. Makes it even more odd to speak of rape cases so lightly. I’m sure you haven’t addressed this tragic story with the usual scepticism you display on this site when it comes to rape cases.

    Hidden agendas? Now that’s truly Tea Baggy stuff. I think I should make myself clear so it’s for all to see what I really stand for.

    My “ideology” is humanity. My moral compass is a basic concern for the welfare of others, a concern that is not based on rational argument but empathy and our shared humanity. I want to extend this concern to animals and nature but in moderation as I’m also aware of the law of economics. Have you ever read about Aristotle’s Nichomachean Ethics? Basically what is needed to make life flourish without thinking too much in terms of rewards and punishments. I suggest you read about that.

    I’m striving for equal treatment for men and women. I don’t do this with deliberately mistreating men but in trying to provide circumstances in which men and women have equal opportunities, rights and obligations. I believe in the consensus that gender equality is a good thing and an objective worth fighting for. Besides we can rid of injustice (there’s no justification for treating women as sub humans) there are also positive effects. Many reports show a strong correlation between gender equality and a country’s prosperity and economic competitiveness. Countries with a high level of gender equality are also topping various welfare, health and prosperity lists. Furthermore men can spend more time with their kids and playing bigger parts in their upbringings.

    Basically the same can be said of racism. Combatting racism or discrimination of any kind is a good thing and worthy enough objective to fight for. I don’t get over racism just because it’s a human condition. Justifying slavery was also once a human condition and we all agree it’s an appalling practice.

    I support such fundamental ideas as constitutionalism, liberal democracy, free and fair elections, human rights, capitalism, free trade, freedom of religion in a Nordic economic model. Within such a framework all kinds of ideologies and religions can exist and contribute to the welfare of one and all. It’s not free from flaws and it needs hard work and courage to uphold it.

    Not exactly the ideology of book burners and murderers if you ask me. On the contrary, the fall of the Iron Curtain was a significant moment and gave us the possibility to export these concepts to Eastern Europe. Now it’s up to them to live up to those ideals. Too bad to see Hungary turning back the clock with its transformation into a nationalist xenophobic totalitarian state where criticism to the government is outlawed and the great Hungarian race is celebrated.

    Hidden agendas? It’s like Glenn Beck saying churches practicing social justice are closet Nazi and Communist bastions. It’s silly and you know that. Don’t make me laugh harder. :lol:

    Eagerly awaiting to see you twisting this comment into a communist manifesto :lol:

  29. avatar stevo says:
    September 14th, 2011 at 2:43 am

    If you really stand for all that L, then why do you constantly attack me when I do!

    I enjoyed your attack on the people of Hungary. Could you have found an example of this type of thinking amongst the vast non European majority of the world? Why choose a little place tucked away in Europe. (Hint…… because they are “white”. )

    I am not convinced about any of what you wrote, given the double standards and bais you display so openly.

  30. avatar stevo says:
    September 14th, 2011 at 8:29 am

    Too bad to see Hungary turning back the clock with its transformation into a nationalist xenophobic totalitarian state where criticism to the government is outlawed and the great Hungarian race is celebrated.

    So clearly you are against indigenous ethic peoples protecting their culture and spiritual beliefs from colonization.

    Do you feel the same way about the Australian Aboriginals trying to preserve their cultural heritage? What about China or for that matter Indonesia, when they want to preserve their cultural traditions in the face of an increasingly Eurocentric world? Are they racist and xenophobic for doing so?

    I support such fundamental ideas as constitutionalism, liberal democracy, free and fair elections, human rights, capitalism, free trade, freedom of religion in a Nordic economic model.

    All good stuff Lairedion. These are the exact same values of one Anders Behring Breivik. I especially like the “Nordic” part. Do you think that there may be some folk who do not consider european culture as the only standard ? How do you intend to deal with those people? there are rather alot of them you know! Just a thought…

    We probably desire the same outcomes, but have serious differences in how to achieve those outcomes.

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