Sharia Application

Aug 22nd, 2007, in News, by

Sharia can be applied without making Indonesia an Islamic state.

Fuad Amsyari of the Crescent Star Party, Partai Bulan Bintang (PBB), said in Jakarta on 21st August that the basic form of the state, Pancasila, did not need to be changed in order that sharia be applied. Instead, every law that was made could incorporate Islamic law.

It was a mistake to think that sharia application depended on an Islamic state, he said, and there was nothing in Pancasila that prevented sharia law from being applied in Indonesia. Every government policy and law could employ sharia, he said, and no discrimination against non-Muslims would occur.

There will be no discrimination because in Islam there can be no discrimination.

Another PBB leader, Sahar L. Hassan, agreed that sharia could be adopted without altering the constitution, and hoped that it could be applied at the level of the state, however, someone convicted of theft in an area for which the state was responsible would not suffer hand amputation, but in ordinary theft cases hand amputation would occur.

Meanwhile, in the interests of the further application of sharia law, the PBB is inviting clerics from throughout the country and well-known figures such as Muhammadiyah leader Din Syamsuddin, NU leader Hasyim Muzadi, Majelis Ulama Indonesia leader Ma'ruf Amin, Siddiq Amin of Persatuan Islam (Persis), and representatives of Dewan Dakwah, Hizbut Tahrir Indonesia, Dewan Masjid Indonesia, Ikatan Wanita Muslimat Indonesia, and the Badan Komunikasi Pemuda Remaja Masjid Indonesia (BKPRMI), to attend a meeting in Bogor, 24-26th August.

During this meeting it is hoped that ways to apply sharia in all aspects of life can be discussed, as well as the means of bringing this about, and specific proposals that can be put to the government and parliament. republika


246 Comments on “Sharia Application”

  1. avatar Jokoboyo says:

    Jokoboyo said: blaming each other is not a wise acts, blaming on the past 300 years during Dutch colonialism is never ending problem. When the first bulb were invented by human being it took hundred of years of technology research & revolution, during today internet era, every months there are hi technology obsolescence.
    We live in today world, if you are capable and willing to make Indonesia better you do not need to wait for another 300 years. In 62 years you can make Indonesia at least equal to Malaysia’s prosperity level. Blaming to Dutch, Japanese and Indonesian Chinese will not solving this country. Besides the amount that the Indonesian own pribumi gov’t officers belong to ORBA cronies who ransacked our natural resources wealth during 32 years of ruling are enormously huge $$. The level of destruction in Freeport Irian because of bad agreement between former Orba and USA, the Lapindo’s Porong drilling violation mud volcano, etc are much destructives than when the Dutch ransacked our palm-oil, pulp & tobacco during KNIL ruling 300 years. Think about this, Japan were completely flatten with bomb but within only 10 years they can stand on their feet and became global trade player in automotive.

    I believe people like Tomaculum & Cukurungan are hopeless & useless people in Indonesia, they can only cry and blame blame and blaming ….
    People in this forum are tired & boring with the 2 of your comments,
    all the 2 of you can only spread hatred but no more & hopeless guys !

  2. avatar Pieter says:

    Well well”¦., I see that the discussion got along!

    No, I did not work for any Israeli governmental office nor the Mossad. I was with the private sector supplying equipment and know-how to develop a very important sector in Indonesia. We did deals with the Indonesian private sector, mostly Chinese of course and we had project with local authorities in the provinces. We were called to come to Indonesia and not the other way around. But you will be amazed how much Israeli products are being used I Indonesia in every days life, by the government and by the armed forces. I will not sum them up as some in this forum will not know where to start the boycott!

    Well let me tell you one think about business conducted in Indonesia; any deal we made had to be sold at least 30% more expensive by our local agents (appointed companies by officials) to cover all the facilitating fees to the officials. And as we know most of the officials are “well respected” natives. All very humble looking people, mostly “good” Muslims as they call it. We called it the “greedy & corrupt bastards”! The people ruling have implemented a second nature of corruption at all levels. And who pays the price? The orang kecil, the simple man in the street. Tax money (already ill collected) goes to projects that cost too much due to the many bribes at all levels. As a result the country looks as it looks, airplanes fall out of the sky, boats sink, trains derail etc. Social security, free health care, free schooling etc. does not exist in Indonesia, at least not a good levels.

    The only successful countries are the one that collect taxes consistently, spend taxes honestly and where the rule of law is applied according to the book and to benefit the people. And civil servants are doing just that”¦., serving the public and not filling their own pockets like entrepreneurs!

    Sorry but call us white monkeys, blame us for our past but we too disagree with our colonial history and recognize the wrong doings of our forefathers. Time now is to realize that all evil of today can not be blamed on the ethnical Chinese, the Europeans, Americans (as much as I disagree with their foreign policies) or the Jews.

    Indonesia has its own faith in its own hands. Now if they have been messing up with corruption for the past 60 years that is one thing, if they continue so now it is an other thing. If they agree that the bearded people take over, well good luck!

    Sayang that Indonesia is not able to create its own bread of Islam that suits the local needs. Saying that like in Malaysia some bearded people bring in Arab culture and claim it to be Islam. Sorry but if you want to be a successful society take the best of all available in the West, Singapore or Japan, if you want to assure a religious freedom make a constitution guaranteeing it. And let all others life in peace. But please keep you own culture and practice your religion without willing to copy the Arabs. They may have brought a religion along with their trade and that is fine with me. But as for culture”¦, give me the Javanese culture nay day!

    Pieter

  3. avatar Tomaculum says:

    Toma, Indo poverty and problems mainly cause by native indo (govt, DPR, etc). They treat their own people like s**t. How the country can develop if its own people destroy it from inside.

    Well take a look at yourself before you speak. Before you start pointing fingers at Indonesian Chinese or the West for causing the poverty in Indonesia, why not ask people like Suharto or Habibie or any of the past few presidents? Who’s the one responsible for siphoning the billions from our national coffers into their pockets? Who ran the country so badly that it’s like crap now? The Indonesian Chinese? But they don’t even run the government!

    Sylvester, Enigmatic, are you both Indonesians? If you’re (so called) pribumis, then you’re two of the few thinking this way.
    If you’re chinese descent: please read again my comment, maybe you can find the shades between the lines, would you? And try to understand the sentences as a whole thought. OK? 🙂 I know it is sometimes difficult, but try it.
    The Indonesian chinese didn’t and don’t run the gov., it is true. But in the past, they have a huge impact. Just one name: Liem Sioe Liong.
    I myself have watched and watch myself and my race groups, and those groups are
    (according to the blood in my vessels) the chinese and the pribumi groups.

    As far as I know the Chinese in Indonesia work hard for what they want to achieve. I cant be sure if the same can be said for the so-called “pribumis”. Yet they are the victims of riots and are treated as second class people. What the heck?

    Believe me, there are also hardworking “pribumis”. And let us try to be a little bit fair: do the Indonesian chinese treat the so called pribumis as first class people??

    To end off, please remember that when you point a finger at someone, THREE fingers are pointing back at YOU. So before you point fingers at anyone, please remember that you might just be THREE times as guilty as the person you blame for whatever you blame him/her for.

    Ooops, wise words, Enigmatic, wise words. But once again, try to find the tones between the lines in my comments. Then you will find out, that your wise words are 100%-ly right. 🙂

    Pieter,

    “Sayang that Indonesia is not able to create its own bread of Islam that suits the local needs.”

    Indonesia has had it, but in the last decade it is exchanged with Arabian bread of Islam.
    The problem is that Indonesia currently try to create an atmosphere of tolerance and freedom. So a new concept of enemy is needed and which one is better for this purpose then the new old one in the drawer: the white men?? 🙂

    Jokoboyo,

    “I believe people like Tomaculum & Cukurungan are hopeless & useless people in Indonesia, they can only cry and blame blame and blaming “¦.”

    Thank you for your friendly judgment about my person. But I think you don’t understand my intention. So try again to read my comment as a whole mind, I know it is difficult, but maybe you can get it. 🙂

  4. avatar Sylvester says:

    Toma,
    I am a very smart person with a high level of empathy.
    So you need to be more clear.
    OK, back to the topic.
    Sharia movement is getting stronger, especially in west java. Next year will be more critical, a year before election. For those who oppose Arabization in Indo, you better give an idea.
    Come on guys!

  5. avatar Sylvester says:

    Sorry Toma,
    I mean I am NOT a very smart person with a high level of empathy. I think I need to take a rest, he he.

  6. avatar Tomaculum says:

    Sylvester,
    admittedly my comments are sometimes mistakable. Sorry for that.
    But you’re right. The sharia movement (read: fundamentalist movement) is growing more and more and plaques the unity and the original cultures of Indonesia.
    An Idea? A strong man/group …. maybe?
    Look, the democracy in Indonesia maybe still needs guidances (demokrasi terpimpin) to stop such uncontrolled growth.

  7. avatar dewaratugedeanom says:

    Janma said to Aluang Anak Bayang

    Aren’t Muslims people of the book too? Get a grip man”¦ I’m not liking this new dynamic”¦ not that what I like or don’t like is important, it’s just confusing me”¦. a joke is a joke, but in needs to be interspersed with some real intellectual content”¦. monty python knew how to make fun of religion”¦. they got laughs and made people introspective with their humor. It wasn’t just a childlike ploy to rub people up the wrong way. A little intellect please gentlemen!

    Aluang,
    My remark here may be slightly off topic, but the trouble with a forum like IM is too many people from different backgrounds taking part. I myself am amazed that only a few participants have a clue about the meaning of ‘parody’. Might be a culture-related syndrome. Parody however has been a well-known and efficient literary style since the ancient Greeks.
    But never mind and thumbs up. Keep on spreading the Message. You’re doing fine.

    Dimp said re Balinese ceremonies

    Well some people act without logic, they were taught that way for generations and they stick by it. But as long as their actions do not create any problem for others then I don’t see any problems, however stupid I consider that actions are.

    One of the flaws of Balinese Hinduism is the lack of distinction between traditions and philosophy or religion. The words agama (religion) and adat (tradition) are generally used indiscriminately. I agree that for outsiders this may act rather confusing.
    The phenomenon of takhyul (superstition) however is not endemic to Bali only; you will find it all over the archipelago, also in Muslim communities.

    Djoko said

    Is it Islam itself or radical Islam we should be fearing?

    Anyone who thoroughly read the Qur’an and Hadiths knows it’s Islam itself.

    what should we do about it (and Muslims)?

    We could start by boycotting and isolating ulamas, radicals and fundamentalists.

  8. avatar Shorty says:

    Can we have some reality here?

    It’s immaterial if sharia is compatible with pancasila.

    Constitutionally ri is a secular state.

    Look at the religous conflict in ambom/maluku – 90+% of bali is Hindu – java and in particular jakarta worships the rupiah (sorry, usd) god.

    Whilst ri is the worlds’ most populous islamic country, how many are daily practicing Muslims?

    Look again at islamic conflict world wide, it’s Muslim v Muslim.

    The introduction of sharia wouldn’t solve a thing.

    Crime/corruption/anti social behaviour happens as citizen ignore social/legal/criminal sanctions.

    Telling them that allah doesn’t like it obviously doesn’t work.

    In fact introduction of sharia could have a negative effect – I’ll become Catholic so that I can go to confession and keep all my bits!

  9. avatar Aluang Anak Bayang says:

    Poor tomaculum, some people here obviously have reading problem.

    Look friends, all these people who oppose Allah’s law are working in cahoot with the enemies of Islam. For proof, please reread Pieter’s postings on this page. People of the Book working with corrupt officials.

    Remember, Allah swt seeth, heareth and knoweth all things.

  10. avatar Julita says:

    shorty Says:

    I’ll become Catholic so that I can go to confession and keep all my bits!

    Not that simple shorty: If they confess, they have to really feel sorry for their sins, and promise not to do it again, then the priest gives an absolution in the name of the Lord. Yes, you have to do penance, return your bits of course, be kind to the person you hurt etc etc

    If you have a Bible and wants to know why, when, how Christ gave the power to forgive sins look up: John 20:21-23

    Christ did forgive sins. Luke 5: 24-25
    Christ on the cross forgave the good thief Luke 23-43. ‘This day thou shalt be with me in paradise.”

  11. avatar Aluang Anak Bayang says:

    Dear mbak Julita, this is way off topic but I have to correct you. Prophet Esa (Jesus) pbuh did not die on the cross. Allah swt replaced him with someone else.

    http://www.answering-Christianity.com/crucified.htm

    Salam.

  12. avatar Enigmatic says:

    Allah swt punished the Achenese and Javanese for letting the Christians celebrate Christmas, and tolerating Hindu worshippers in Bali. These disasters are wrath of Allah swt.

    Hmm. So Aluang said that Allah used the tsunami to punish people… Ok, quite justified.

    Oh. So he had it all planned with his divine Hax0rZzZ powers. Whoa t3h Spl01tZ!

    Re,

    Everyone know that the tsunami was caused by the Americans and the Jews.

    I see that Dimp is one of the more intelligent contributors here. The people of the book like to cause mischief even when truth is presented to them. Allah swt had already made it known in the Quran itself.

    But wait. Or did the US and Jews do this?

    Look friends, all these people who oppose Allah’s law are working in cahoot with the enemies of Islam.

    Oh, so Allah sent the tsunami at the Balinese and Acehnese together with the Americans and Jews. Talk about inside job!!
    Holy cow, so that’s how the (possibly fundamentalist) religious teachers teach you Aluang. Excellent job!

    P.S. I’m Indonesian by nationality.

  13. avatar Julita says:

    Thanks Aluang for your posting, yes. out off topic but I will reply, after my thorough research and comparing both sides.

  14. avatar Aluang Anak Bayang says:

    Dear mbak Julita, please do read the Quran with an open mind.

    In Islam, woman has a high status which no past nation ever achieved. For instance in Christianity the women were regarded as someone who did not even have a soul. Islam does justice to both men and women.

    Back to Shariah Application, women have all to benefits that come with these divine guided law, please also take your time to peruse this link below,

    Women status in Islam.

    Salam. You are on your way to enlightenment.

  15. avatar Sylvester says:

    For instance in Christianity the women were regarded as someone who did not even have a soul.

    Aluang, sorry to say that this time you are really idiot and provocative. The whole world knows how islam treat women. Christianity is egaliter, both sexes.

  16. avatar Sylvester says:

    Prophet Esa (Jesus) did not die on the cross. Allah swt replaced him with someone else.

    Surely moslem do not believe Jesus resurrected. Otherwise, they will be Christian, ha ha.

  17. avatar Daniel Khaleel says:

    Aluang, you said

    For instance in Christianity the women were regarded as someone who did not even have a soul.

    Your statement is false. This is what the scripture says:

    You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

    Galations 3:26-29.

    If anyone belongs to Christ, there is no difference between them. No more barriers of race or gender. We are all loved the same by God and we are all to treat eachother as brothers and sisters. Praise be to God for that.

    Julita, let your light shine.

  18. avatar Julita says:

    Thanks friends for pitching in. Will come.

  19. avatar Aluang Anak Bayang says:

    Re,

    Thanks Aluang for your posting, yes. out off topic but I will reply, after my thorough research and comparing both sides.

    Dear mbak Julita, it was disappointing to see that your research concluded with biased inputs from the usual mossad suspects in the like of Sylvester and Daniel K. Earlier on, you bemoaned the lack of rational intellectual discussion in this forum, however when prompted to a link which produced real hard facts which contradict your preconceived belief, you opted the easy way out.

    May Allah swt guide you to the truth.

    Salam.

  20. avatar Pieter says:

    1. Aluang Anak Bayang Says:
    August 25th, 2007 at 8:29 pm

    Poor tomaculum, some people here obviously have reading problem.
    Look friends, all these people who oppose Allah’s law are working in cahoot with the enemies of Islam. For proof, please reread Pieter’s postings on this page. People of the Book working with corrupt officials.
    Remember, Allah swt seeth, heareth and knoweth all things.

    Aluang,
    You got it wrong here.
    People of the book being invited by Indonesian called businessman begging us to supply and consult. These people have been appointed by native officials. We were banned of working directly with the officials. We offered our products and services at the very same price we do all over the world. The local appointed agent did add shameful amounts to the local bills to be redistributed to the officials. We found out of these unethical practices when seeing local documents. When questioned we were told that this is Indonesia and business is practiced that way.

    So please Aluang, clean your own back yard first before blaming us. We have laws against such practices and people go to jail for it.

  21. avatar Aluang Anak Bayang says:

    Re,

    So please Aluang, clean your own back yard first before blaming us. We have laws against such practices and people go to jail for it.

    That is what we are trying to do. Shariah is the way to go. Allah swt knows best.

  22. avatar Pieter says:

    Aluang,

    Good for you. We saw the result in other Islamic countries! We have man made laws just in case some elements are not complying. But the real education starts at home and in the secular school. Good civic education.

    Since I do not believe in god, the Allah justification does not go up for me. God being a creation or invention of man, still has audience in places where the authorities fail to provide for the people. In de West we see our religions as a culture, history but not as an legislating authority.

    Regards,
    Pieter

  23. avatar Boni says:

    I support Sharia Law because I want to have four wives and if I rape a woman, that woman will be punished for zina. I especially love Sharia Law because Sharia law put men superior than women.

  24. avatar Ronald says:

    I am a big support of NKRI but if syaria law is implemented, i will move to Manado and fight for a new country named “Repbulic of North Sulawesi”. Papua, South Maluku, NTT, Bali and North Sumatra will follow. And of course Aceh coz they will be much richer as a new country. Good Bye Bhineka Tunggal Ika.

  25. Aluang,

    While the items on your website “answering Christianity” could be argued fairly simply (in response to your website, check out http://www.answering-islam.org), I choose to bypass all of that by getting to the heart of the matter. I have seen back and forth debates between Christians and Muslims, none of which persuaded either party contrary to their faith. i am especially concerned about the media that we use in these debates. the internet removes the face and human emotions from these discussions, all of which are important. so, before i step out of this conversation (a new work week will begin tomorrow, and i will not have the time that I’d like to continue posting), I want to leave you with a simple thought on why I believe in Jesus…

    I have seen the evidence of Christ in my life. At one time I was a sinner in violation of Gods commands and worthy of death. I then encountered the saving love of God. Now through Jesus I have experienced forgiveness of sins and an unquenchable desire to see justice and righteousness. I can’t explain such a spiritual encounter with words. All I can do is live my faith and let it be seen by all people.

    God is love and He desires peace between Him and His creation. Jesus makes that peace possible. Jesus brings healing to the wounded hearts.

    Sharia seeks to punish and destroy those who do wrong. God seeks to restore the heart of a sinner, for out of the heart spring the issues of life.

    We have all sinned – me, you, clerics, priests, pastors. We have all violated Allah’s divine standard. We will most likely all sin again. Turn to a loving and kind God for forgiveness. Allah is all merciful and compassionate.

    Now answer your own argument Aluang, pray to God with an open heart and mind. Read the Christian scriptures with an open heart and mind. Seek the truth with all your heart and you will find.

    Peace.

    Daniel K.

  26. avatar Shorty says:

    Jualita and others, a comparative evaluation of islam, Christianity or any other religion is immaterial, the people who flaunt the law aren’t concerned with who wrote it, they don’t care if there’s 70 virgins or a fresh set of wings and a new harp. they are not concerned about the religious sanction, if they see a commercial or financial advantage, they’ll take it, if they have to wear a different hat, they’ll wear it, think about it – secular law has a distinct advantage – it has to accommodate all non secular beliefs, not favouring any, let me give a hypothetical – would you want to live in ri as a non secular state whilst sunni/shia/ji/quéda fought for control? Throw in the Christians in ambon/maluku, the balinese, provided we respect and defend each other, what’s wrong with you do your thing, I’ll do mine?

  27. avatar Enigmatic says:

    Dear mbak Julita, it was disappointing to see that your research concluded with biased inputs from the usual mossad suspects in the like of Sylvester and Daniel K. Earlier on, you bemoaned the lack of rational intellectual discussion in this forum, however when prompted to a link which produced real hard facts which contradict your preconceived belief, you opted the easy way out.

    May Allah swt guide you to the truth.

    Salam.

    oh your sources are so UNBIASED Aluang. Yes, Sharia, just like your GREAT sources, are unbiased towards anyone, men, women, Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Jewish, Hindu and all else. I am so proud of your unbiasness Aluang.

    Let me elaborate.

    Boni Says:

    August 26th, 2007 at 1:04 pm
    I support Sharia Law because I want to have four wives and if I rape a woman, that woman will be punished for zina. I especially love Sharia Law because Sharia law put men superior than women.

    Boni, you are right AND wrong!! You are wrong because Sharia doesnt favour men over women. In Sharia, both men and women ARE EQUAL!! Everyone is equal, it’s just that men are MORE equal than women. (Read Animal Farm aka Pertanian Binatang)

    It’s just that men can have multiple wives while women can only have 1 (or perhaps a fraction of a) husband. After all, men are just as, if not more, equal than women in Sharia right?

    So, count me in SHARIA!! I WANT MORE WIVES, MORE SEX, MORE EVERYTHING and get away with it!!!

    And Aluang, what’s your comments on the statements below?

    Allah swt punished the Achenese and Javanese for letting the Christians celebrate Christmas, and tolerating Hindu worshippers in Bali. These disasters are wrath of Allah swt.

    Hmm. So you said that Allah used the tsunami to punish people”¦ Ok, very justified.

    Re,

    Everyone know that the tsunami was caused by the Americans and the Jews.

    I see that Dimp is one of the more intelligent contributors here. The people of the book like to cause mischief even when truth is presented to them. Allah swt had already made it known in the Quran itself.

    But wait. Or did the US and Jews do this?

    Look friends, all these people who oppose Allah’s law are working in cahoot with the enemies of Islam.

    Oh, so Allah sent the tsunami at the Balinese and Acehnese together with the Americans and Jews. Teamkill!!
    Holy cow, so that’s what becomes of clear minded people like Aluang. Indonesia is in for more bombings! Go Allah Go!!

    P.S. I’m Indonesian by nationality.

  28. avatar Enigmatic says:

    But wait. Or did the US and Jews do this?

    Look friends, all these people who oppose Allah’s law are working in cahoot with the enemies of Islam.

    Sorry for double posting, but the Aluang did not say “But wait. Or did the US and Jews do this?” I did.

    He only said “Look friends, all these people who oppose Allah’s law are working in cahoot with the enemies of Islam.”

    I rarely use forums, sorry.

  29. avatar Julita says:

    Aluang: Dear mbak Julita, it was disappointing to see that your research concluded with biased inputs from the usual mossad suspects in the like of Sylvester and Daniel K.

    Do yu what the term pitching n is? and the will do!

  30. avatar Aluang Anak Bayang says:

    Dear people, I am having a dialogue with mbak Julita, and she promised to respond after a thorough research on the link I gave her. I trust she is capable of analysing and reaching her own conclusion.

    Do you people always speak for her? or is this some kind of western ‘gentlemenness’ etiquette?

    Salam.

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