Yusril Ihza Mahendra

May 14th, 2007, in IM Posts, by

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114 Comments on “Yusril Ihza Mahendra”

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  1. avatar Janma says:
    November 16th, 2007 at 1:05 pm

    It’s true the procedure takes long. it’s typical indonesian bureaucracy. there are like three lines to go through, one to stamp one to pay, one to whatever…. complicated, and probably set up like that to prevent corruption. I don’t think it can prevent corruption though…. my son stayed in Indonesia for 9 months on a one month visa! everytime he went to leave to get a new visa the immigration ‘fixed’ it for him without him having to go anywhere. Coolies!

  2. avatar Yusril Ihza Mahendra says:
    November 16th, 2007 at 2:03 pm

    Rambutan,

    We cannot just present an opinion without any data. Please check to the Directorate General of Immigartion how much tourists visited Indonesia after six moths the visa on arrival policy was implemented comparing six months prior to that. If you think the procedure takes long, please compare to the immigration service in Bangkok, Kuala Lumpur and Hong Kong Airports first. About paying 25 USD? How much does an Indonesian citizen should pay for visa when they apply to foreign embassy here? Actualy, the government needs funds to provide more sophisticated equipments for immigration, because our security and services are very weak. It is unfair to get all the immigration cost to the tax of Indonesian people. US, Australia and others, also use visa fees to finance the operational cost for their immigration.

    Maybe you are correct, if talking about terrorism in Indonesia, almost all people arrested and prosecuted are Indonesians; however, not all their networks and intellectual players are arrested. The immigration equipments we have that time cannot detect double pasport issued to one person. We also cannot detect how many times someone either Indonesian citizen or foreign citizen enter and leave this country. The other trans-national organized crime, including drugs, should make us more carefull. After terrorist attack in US and Bali Bombing, almost all the country revised their visa policy. Of course it is not merely visa, but all immigration work. Maybe you dont know how much criticism we got from other countries to our immigartion system after the Bali Bombing.

    I did not use visa on arrival issue for election campaign. The results were the opposite, at least, in the eye of the people like you.

  3. avatar Arema says:
    November 16th, 2007 at 3:18 pm

    Wow… what can be more interesting in this forum than the actual person itself replying to the posts?

    First of all, I would like to welcome you to this forum. You must be one of the first persons (or maybe the first?) among tens (or maybe hundreds?) of names discussed in Indonesia Matters who is brave enough to show yourself without any nicknames.

    Well, I’d like to go back to the initial topic written by Patung. Could you explain to us the real story about what has been written below?

    1) Yusril Ihza Mahendra was dismissed from his position as State Secretary in the cabinet of president Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono on 7th May due to, according to many, the likelihood that he is criminally connected with Tommy Suharto’s stealing of state funds.

    2) However deputy chairman of Yusril Ihza Mahendra’s party, Partai Bintang Bulan (PBB), Crescent Star Party, Janzi Sofyan, believes that the real reason for Mahendra’s dismissal was the interference of businessmen backed by foreigners who fear the application of Islamic law in Indonesia.

    There is two debatable versions of story explaining why you were sacked. You, the very person we talked and discussed about, should know this matter better than anyone else. Maybe it’s time to clear things up?

    Oh yeah, one more thing:

    It is not certain what Yusril Ihza Mahendra himself thinks about these allegations as he is busily preparing for a run at the presidency in 2009. Speaking in Jakarta on the 11th Yusril, who is married to the lovely Rika Tolentino Kato, said the PBB’s firm support gave him confidence to try for the presidency. However the final decision as to whether to run or not was up to the will of God, he said.

    Do you have the intention to run for presidency?

    You can answer me in English or Indonesian, I’m fine with both. But since this is an English-only forum, please follow the rules as much as you can.

  4. avatar Yusril Ihza Mahendra says:
    November 16th, 2007 at 6:11 pm

    Janma,

    I think you are so idealistic and realy anti-curruption; but why let your son bribe immigration officers? Just tell openly the name of the immigration officer and your son for investigation. I believe both of them will be prosecuted. After punishment, your son will be blacklisted to enter this country. Investigation also can be done to you, how far you have been involved in this case. Did you tell your son to bribe the immigration officers? If yes, you can also be arrested according to Indonesian criminal law.

    Arema,

    Thank you for your symphatetic suggestion. I will also explain everything about myself as my respons to the writings in Indonesia Matter through my own blog. Let other people present their comments. I wish Mr Patung (mean Statue), will appear as a man. I am very eager to debate on the topic of Islamic Law with him. Let us discuss it in an academic point of view, not just merely by expressing the spirit of anti Islamic Law feeling, without any deep understanding…

  5. avatar Achmad Sudarsono says:
    November 16th, 2007 at 6:25 pm

    Yusril,

    Just wondering:

    - Do you honestly think, or do you expect us to believe you think, that someone who bribes immigration officers will get prosecuted ?

  6. avatar Achmad Sudarsono says:
    November 16th, 2007 at 6:30 pm

    P.S.

    Also, I just want to say thank for writing speech for Mr. Soeharto, Bapak Pembangunan. I love the Pancasila and UUD very much and always try to educate people on this blog.

    Once I heard you say the Bule should prosecuted over what Westerling does in Indonesia. Bpk Yusril Yth, I agree. I think the Bule come to Indonesia and is kurang ajar, so it is good if we make him pay for the visa entry.

    Hidup Semangat ’45 and Merdeka ! I wasn’t around back then, but I will try to keep the spirit alive.

    Achmad Sudarsono.

  7. avatar Dragonwall says:
    November 17th, 2007 at 3:13 am

    You had earlier said

    Anda begitu sinis dan menggunakan kata-kata yang diluar batas kesopanan tentang isteri saya

    Nothing was said about your wife! I said his new found nudies.. Is that your wife? I never mentioned anything about your wife. I have not made any insulting remarks towards your wife.

    Whether it is dragonwall, greatwall or no wall it doesn’t matter. What that matters are facts.

    And you can forget the KUHP because you knew better like in the case of Basyir.. What happened.. Comparing that to any other countries.. It will be a different story, right!

    You said ICW were full of rumors and that Teten Masduki consider an open debate to be Menghabiskan Umur karena debat Kusir. I think he is smart rather than ending up like Munir. Read carefully, I didn’t mentioned anything about you.

    I suppose the article that was published in http://www.greenleft.au you are going to dismissed as rumors since you said that there were discrimination by the Dutch right! Then I provided you the link so you have the right to go ahead and sue them for such a defamative remarks about the law of a democratic country… (The suit could be worth Trillion of dollars.)
    If not, and if it is the truth, so what happened?

    I am unsure if you knew what had happened to the revocation of the Staatsblad pada Jaman Belanda and what was reported. You cannot dismissed the fact.
    Being a Minister of Justice, it is your due responsibility to ensure such things does not happened, I mean the discriminating part. Moreover you were, after the post of Justice Minister became the Secretary of State which in vocation comparable to that of the Secretary of State in the US.
    So what was empowered to the Secretary of State? Don’t you think it should be your jurisdiction to ensure such things does not happened in Indonesia to all Indonesians since you report directly to the President?
    I understand that the Staatsblad from the Dutch colonial was to dicriminate the Chinese by restricting and segregating them in most common term.

    The topic then was entitled A New Form of Discrimination which means after the Dutch discriminates the Chinese, the Indonesian Government further discriminate the Chinese by making a revocation that brought about into force a new form of discrimination right beneath the eys of the Justice Department. You can’t just say I am the Secretary of State, that is the problem of Justice Ministry, please don’t asked me.

    Those that revoked the Staatsblad wrongly or intentionally, that brought about into force such an act, should be considered as what! PENGHIANAT NEGARA DAN BANGSA INDONESIA! or what?

    When were you a Minister of Justice and when were you appointed as Secretary of State?
    You were later dismissed earlier this year for your alleged and proven involvement in the illegal transfering of TS’s fund. But it turned out later..

    However deputy chairman of Yusril Ihza Mahendra’s party, Partai Bintang Bulan (PBB), Crescent Star Party, Janzi Sofyan, believes that the real reason for Mahendra’s dismissal was the interference of businessmen backed by foreigners who fear the application of Islamic law in Indonesia

    As a practising Lawyer… As a Minister of Justice…As the Secretary of State….. .!
    Did you considered your self to be disgraceful for your action? Yes or No?
    This is the greatest insult to Indonesia and all Indonesians . An Echelon One person at G level involve in such an act. I suppose this should be referred to as funds that was corrupted and you being an accessory!
    (Lets not take others into comparison because it will then be defrayed into another topic ). Like you said

    berusaha mengalihkannya ke persoalan lain yang bersifat umum

    As to visa, I am not referring to the transfer of one place of collection to another regarding the visa fees. Visa fees is not the topic of discussion or dispute..It is no secret that corrupt practice happened at embassies and many of them were found to be guilty and prosecuted.. So you are very sure that ITU SEMUA DISETOR KE KAS NEGARA? No corruption? I am referring to this topic..CORRUPTION.

    We are discussing a topic of Corruption and the Discrimination part, so the part of SALAHGUNA VISA KUNJUNG… bla..bla..bla DON’T FIT THE PICTURE.

    And if you were to say

    Tentang UU Kepailitan, saya tidak terlalu ahli mengenai hal itu. Diskriminasi atau tidak, silahkan memperdebatkannya dengan para ahli.

    So if as a Minister of Justice is not the authority, does that mean that a blind is asking a blind to lead?

    This is not personal, what more to consider it a personal attack.. Don’t get me wrong..
    When I read about the discrimination, it infuriates me and the first thing is that, if for any other person, will asked what the hell is the Minister of Justice doing? Don’t you think it is right? Moreover you have been appointed to a higher position with jurisdiction over most Ministers and nothing was done? Put yourself into the shoes of all Indonesians and see what they say.

    We cannot just present an opinion without any data

    So the data was presented to you and not published by me which I am quite sure, because

    it’s typical indonesian bureaucracy

    that some will say

    Waduh saya sudah dilepas jabatan, ngak ada urusan saya kan? Silahkan check ke bagian yang bersangkutan. I suppose this will be a logical reply.

    One more thing, if I am not wrong you were the Minister of Justice and (HAM) Human Rights”¦

  8. avatar Dragonwall says:
    November 17th, 2007 at 5:25 am

    This was said.

    What he did is to prevent those embassy from corruption because no one needs to go to the Indonesian Embassy to apply for visa

    Is there anything wrong? Good or bad?
    It was proven many of those pejabat had stole money belonging to the country and had committed corruption, charged, found guilty and sentenced. Right! It is a good thing.

    promoted the corruption at the Immigration so that every port of entry could get hold of those visa fees

    Comparing that few staffs in the embassies throughout the world, that had became so fat with their bank accounts (tens of thousands of dollars), and comparing to that many staffs manning entry point..
    What are the chances of corruption or stealing money belonging to the country to happen or occur?.. And they are even more difficult to eradicate, right? By that is that promoting? If not what? You may not be the one to tell them to do it. But by giving them the opportunity to capitalize on, what say you.

    (Stealing = money collected and belonged to the country and taken away without authorization for private benefit, use or disposal)

    Yes using of funds to pay for this and that, but also not forgeting to get into some place such as safe haven.. Then it comes along the tedious process of finding how much was collected, how was expended and where the rest gone to to prove corruption. In the first place when it was not in place, then it would not have happened.

    He had promise to revamp the law but did nothing for the people. Some of the laws that were revised by the government to ‘hapus undang undang jaman belanda’ was in a mess. The revision had caused the Indonesian to unknowingly face a new form of discrimination

    So what does that make you look like?.. Figure it out yourself.

    Ya..

    bahwa apa yang anda katakan adalah suatu tindak pidana. Perbuatan anda itu dapat saya angap sebagai penghinaan atau penistaan. Paling tidak merupakan perbuatan yang tidak menyenangkan

    Apa yang anda lakukan adalah tindak pidana. Tetapi tidak ada hukuman….cuma lepas jabatan…

  9. avatar dewaratugedeanom says:
    November 17th, 2007 at 4:12 pm

    Yusril said

    Janma,

    I think you are so idealistic and realy anti-curruption; but why let your son bribe immigration officers?

    It is reported that Indonesian immigration officials, when they spot a few entry stamps in a visitor’s passport, usually are the first to suggest more ‘elegant’ ways than to have the visitor who wants to stay longer leave the country and come back again. Many officers seem to know by heart how much the airfare to Singapore amounts to.

    After punishment, your son will be blacklisted to enter this country. Investigation also can be done to you, how far you have been involved in this case. Did you tell your son to bribe the immigration officers? If yes, you can also be arrested according to Indonesian criminal law.

    Do I smell intimidation to divert the attention from those who cash in on corruption?

    Let us call a spade a spade. The entire visa on arrival thing saw the light at a time when tourism in Bali was as low as it could get. To limit the damage and secure the cash flow to Jakarta one had to find new ways of milking the cow. And what could be easier than to let those who were still willing to visit pay for the lost income?
    As we say in Bali ‘Genite bakat gasgas’ (if you have an itch, scratch it).

  10. avatar Arema says:
    November 17th, 2007 at 5:56 pm

    Arema,
    Thank you for your symphatetic suggestion. I will also explain everything about myself as my respons to the writings in Indonesia Matter through my own blog. Let other people present their comments.

    Well, Mr Yusril, then could you let us know the web address of your blog? Could you give us the link to the page that specifically answering my questions? Thank you in advance.

    Actually I want to stay out of trouble, but I also want to set things up straight:

    Saya Yusril Ihza Mahendra. Saya menggunakan nama saya sendiri dan keabsahan e-mail saya dapat diverifikasi.

    Saya telah menggunakan nama asli saya dan mengajak anda untuk keluar dari persembunyian anda. Percuma mengaku Dragonwall, kalau ternyata anda hanya serorang pengecut. Lebih baik anda ganti saja dengan Mousewall. Sebab prilaku tikus cenderung seperti itu. Ambil makanan, lalu lari untuk sembunyi di lobang atau di tempat gelap.

    Mr Yusril, I don’t know how long you’ve been in the internet, but almost everyone in the internet will not put their real name upfront like you did, especially in a free-for-all forum that mainly discussing about “sensitive issues” like Indonesia Matters. Security first.

    Unlike you, we’re “a bunch of nobodies”, so no matter whether we use our real name or not, none of us will get the difference. Even if I use my real name Ari Mahardika, do you know who the hell is that? Heheheh… and on top of that, are you sure that’s my real name? Does that makes any difference to you? No it’s not, unless you’re hiring some assassins to kill me.

    I’m sorry, but from the way I see it, you used your real name not because you’re a lelaki jantan. You used your real name because you want to clear your name that has been insulted in such a way in this forum. Well, that’s the only way I guess, but you have no right whatsoever to ask us to disclose our real names. We have every right in the world to refuse.

    Who we actually are, is not important. What’s important are our opinions, thoughts, questions, and suggestions. We came to this forum because we care about Indonesia. We want you to respect that. Thank you.

    Apa yang dikemukakan oleh Dragonwall sangat tendensius dan tidak didukung oleh fakta yang nyata………………….
    Statemen Anda tanpa didukung oleh fakta dan argumentasi. Statemen hampa seperti itu, tidak ada artinya.

    Alright. He did not show facts and figures. Fine. But did you? You also did not show any facts and figures to prove that he was wrong, right? Doesn’t this put you in the exact same ground as him, according to what you’ve said? Doesn’t this make your statements inclined, unsupported by real facts, void, and meaningless? Note that I’m just simply translating what you’ve said. Surely a former (yes, even a former) Justice and Human Rights Minister knows a lot (if not all) about the real facts and figures. Then why didn’t you show it to end the doubt once and for all?

    Debating about facts and figures is meaningless, ngabisin umur. Just show him the thing, clarify it, prove him wrong, and he’ll apologize if he accepted your explanation. Fair and square. There is no reason to hide the fact, if you are not guilty. And since you came here for that sole purpose, that is, to clear your name, then there is no better time to clear things up than now.

    Having said all that, please note that I have not the smallest intention to defend Dragonwall. I just want to see future posts to be filled with quality arguments and positive discussions, not “show me your real face!” thing or childish personal attacks.

  11. avatar Pakmantri says:
    November 17th, 2007 at 8:22 pm

    dewaratugedeanom said:

    Do I smell intimidation to divert the attention from those who cash in on corruption?

    Typical “pejabat’s” answer, intimidate and blame everybody else rather than try to solve the real problem.
    The smart questions he should ask if he really want to solve the problem would be, how did your son know who to pay, who gave him the information, and trace it back to the source instead of scaring people away.
    No wonder nobody wanted to report a corruption if one sees corruption in progress, because it’s going to be like “in between a rock and a hard place” or “maju kena mundur kena”.
    Is it me or don’t see don’t tell policy is encourage here?

    Arema said:

    ……………………. could you let us know the web address of your blog?

    Here it is,
    http://yusril.ihzamahendra.com/

    Peace and merdeka.

  12. avatar Dragonwall says:
    November 18th, 2007 at 5:17 am

    While you are still busy provoking and agitating the Islamic Society in Indonesia by saying “seorang yang menggunakan inisial Dragonwall dan penulisnya yang bernama Patung, Beliau ini seringkali menyerang seseorang dalam kaitannya dengan Islam dalam nada provokatif dan sinis., and displacing some of your sidekicks like Handoko and Vavai into the IM Blog.

    I like to compliment Arema, on your posting for being fair and un-bias, and to those who stands up for the human rights of minority groups of Indonesians in Indonesia.
    Harsh as it seem, there are people who failed or refuse to accept what a fact is.
    And for people who were high ranking government officials with inability to accept criticism on their mistake and taking corrective measures after
    “Yusril Ihza Mahendra, the State Secretary who was dismissed from office by President SBY for his part in helping Tommy Suharto recoup his ill gotten gains from overseas” and that makes them incorrigible, especially for a person who claims himself to be “the putative champion of Islamic values”.

    While “Speaking to the parliamentary committee deliberating a bill on the province’s administration State Secretary Yusril Ihza Mahendra said that non-Muslims accused of committing ordinary crimes, such as theft and adultery, would be tried under the sharia-inspired bylaws (qanun), according to the Jakarta Post”
    When as a Minister of Justice and Human Rights and being appointed as Secretary of State your have sworn in.
    1. You swear to protect the Constitution and the UU 45.
    2. You swear to protect the interest of The Republic of Indonesia and the interest and well being of all Indonesians.
    3. You swear to upkeep the law and ensure to protect the innocent and prosecute the guilty.

    Honestly speaking there are tens of millions of minority groups in Indonesia who wants to, but failed to because of being scared or fear of retaliation and intimidation, voice their protest and refusal but being unable to do so.
    In view of this criticism, though harsh., there are that many millions who may be or is cursing and swearing on you when you openly state and subjugate the Christians to be subjected to Islamic Law.
    i. This is discrimination on all minority Indonesians especially the Christians.
    ii. This is persecution towards all minority Christian Indonesians.
    iii. This is unjust to the minority Indonesians.
    iv. This is partial to the minority Indonesians.
    v. This is to marginalize the minority Indonesians.

    I summed up to rest my case by saying
    a. You are irresponsible towards the minority Indonesians.
    b. You are subjecting all minority Indonesians by forcing them to submit themselves to the Islamic Law, that was suppose to be the law to guide the Muslims to their own way of life, and that makes Indonesia undemocratic.
    c. Being a Secretary of State you are putting the country into high risk and jeopardy.
    d. Being a Minister of Justice to admit he is not an expert in UU kepailitan is as good as saying that the President had place you in the wrong post since you belong to the group of MISFIT.

    The list could be endless and in the meantime you have just said something provocative by saying that there are people who are making blasphemous remarks about the Islamic religion.

    I hoped this will makes you a better person.

    One more thing. What he is doing is exactly

    mempromosikan kebencian atau permusuhan

    So that the Muslim will hate IM bloggers commenting on his matter by making those remarks in his blog.

  13. avatar Dragonwall says:
    November 19th, 2007 at 6:37 am

    Oops one part in his blog the part ..seseorang yang menggunakan.. till sinis.. was remove. Can’t find that anymore.

    I was thinking of having that printed and frame it up or place them in the Swiss Bank for safe keeping.. just in case..

    Hmmm wonder why……

  14. avatar Yusril takes on critics head on, changes to WordPress « Unspun says:
    November 19th, 2007 at 6:49 am

    [...] about his life and policies when in the Cabinet.  Those of you who relish a good argument can go there to watch the “conversation” unfold, blow for blow. Unspun feels for Yusril though since [...]

  15. avatar pretty says:
    November 19th, 2007 at 8:12 am

    Whoa, what a thread! thanks for unspun to displaying this thread in his Page.

    My humble opinion, Pak Yusril, you do not need to explain any rumours in here, it will be a never ending discussion! Just explain of what is fact from your side and I believe, each of the readers can have their own opinion about your statement, as well as other statement (including Dragonwall).

    Dragonwall have every right in the world to write anything, as well as you. Set aside the emotion and temper, you have to realize that as a public figure, let alone former minister, you will always be under spotlight and people will always comments about you, no matter you like it or not.

    I welcome you pak Yusril, in this blogosphere, its really nice to have you joined.

  16. avatar Janma says:
    November 19th, 2007 at 12:39 pm

    Janma,

    I think you are so idealistic and realy anti-curruption; but why let your son bribe immigration officers? Just tell openly the name of the immigration officer and your son for investigation. I believe both of them will be prosecuted. After punishment, your son will be blacklisted to enter this country. Investigation also can be done to you, how far you have been involved in this case. Did you tell your son to bribe the immigration officers? If yes, you can also be arrested according to Indonesian criminal law.

    Why would you think that I am idealistic? I am a pragmatist! Also, I don’t control what my son does, he’s 22 years old. Of course I didn’t tell him to bribe them, I wouldn’t have to tell him, he would already know that, he grew up here! The immigration officers themselves offered their services… (sama sama bantu) You want names of immigration officers who were involved in corruption?? That would be a long list…. maybe easier to give you the short list of those who are not…. ummm…. let me check, that’d be none! LOL!

    So tell me Mr. Anti Corruption… how’d you get to be so high in government without once getting your hands dirty hey? I know that you know way more about government here than I do, and even I know that there isn’t ANYONE who is clean…. so do you know it. The difference is that you guys are so clever at basa basi that you can just go around pretending everything is running they way it should. Quite sly, but you see, us ordinary folks have to get things done in the system you so devise… and it isn’t easy see. You want to try and get your visa, your kartu keluarga, building permit or some other document done without being involved in corruption? You’re in for a very long wait! They can manage to stall and send you in circles till you are so frustrated you wake up and pay up.
    You want to arrest me for that little story???? You won’t last long on the internet proudly using your real name my friend! No one will talk to you!

  17. avatar Arema says:
    November 19th, 2007 at 2:43 pm

    @Janma: Yeah, I feel the same way as you did. I was shocked to read Mr Yusril’s reply. It was like “If you are trying to do good for this country by reporting corruption, watch your back!”. That’s one unthinkable attitude!! And for a former Justice (!!!) and Human Rights (!!!) Minister (!!!) to have that kind of attitude is even more shocking! So, I didn’t regret saying that his dismissal from the office was the will of God (my first post, way up there). It is an utter disgrace, to have a Justice Minister that opposes justice, a Human Right Minister that promotes discrimination (as Dragonwall has elaborated). His sacking is probably one of SBY’s best decisions this year.

    And for those supporting Mr Yusril, I saw a lot of you in his blog, you should read this discussion from the title until finish, and see for yourself what kind of person you’re supporting.

  18. avatar Aluang Anak Bayang says:
    November 19th, 2007 at 2:56 pm

    Wow, if Yusril Ihza Mahendra is actually reading and replying on this blog, I have much respect for him. I hope our beloved president take some times visiting this site.

    Salam.

  19. avatar Rambutan says:
    November 19th, 2007 at 3:21 pm

    Wow, if Yusril Ihza Mahendra is actually reading and replying on this blog, I have much respect for him. I hope our beloved president take some times visiting this site.

    In contrast to Yusril, SBY is actually busy doing something good for this country.

  20. avatar pretty says:
    November 19th, 2007 at 3:38 pm

    I don’t think pak Yusril will comment anymore in this site, as he already made his own site and invites comments there. As far as I see, all good comments ^_^

    However, I also feel sorry for pak Yusril that he said Janma and his son could be sent to jail because of the ‘bribe story’. Do you think it is wise? Please improve the system first ! I have an experience when I want to apply for my passport, I have to wait almost a week not until I paid 100,000.- rp undertable then I get phoned and my passport is ready, right a way in 2 hours! what a story, I hope nobody will track me down and sent me to jail because of that.

    So, people, we might want to say goodbye to this ‘hot’ thread (me think, 2nd best after ‘rasa not so sayang’ at Unspun blog ).

  21. avatar Bonar says:
    November 19th, 2007 at 6:39 pm

    @PRETTY:
    “me think, 2nd best after ‘rasa not so sayang’ at Unspun blog ”

    I couldnt agree more :-)

    @YIM: this is from PR perspective.

    to be honest, i never liked you before.

    Only after you made your blog, and reading your conversations everywhere in blogosphere, i started to understand you and your thoughts, and more or less, admire you, just a little bit though, not much… yet :)
    “tak kenal maka tak sayang” they said

    HOWEVER, I also quite agree with many many accusations presented on this blog.

    and your “fighter style” really irks me… and i was a person who is starting to like your thoughts.
    I understand the complexities of minister’s job, it makes sense if you didnt get all the details on your previous job.
    I understand your need to defend your past decisions, and your impulse to threat some people with laws. Law maybe easy solution for you, but believe me, you dont do -yourself- justice by that approach.

    as a longtimer in indonesian politics, by now you shoud realize that indonesians prefer “BEACON of Justice and Truthfulness”, instead of a Fighter.

    Show us we are wrong about you, present your proofs and opinions(maybe in your blogs).
    Consider the accusations as mass opinions, not a personal opinions, dont challenge your enemies in their faces one by one, let them come to you.
    maybe you should ask unspun to be your PR consultant? :)

  22. avatar Dragonwall says:
    November 20th, 2007 at 6:38 am

    Whatever that was paid for at whatever Instansi is secondary.

    The Primary motive is that the Indonesian Government especially Kehakiman, Wali Kota, Imigrasi, Pemerintah Daerah etc must ensure that the systems in all Instansi must get to the right path. Then there will be no differentiating of who the person is, in like making a passport or KTP or building permit.

    My daughter and son had their passport done for nothing less 1 million rupiahs. Having their KTP and paying 1-200,000 is considered the norm under such discriminative bureaucracy.

    Postal and Bea Cukai also had the same rpoblem. when you send something back to Indonesia, your package is bound to have that inspected or have it opened. Then some of those things, especially expensive items get lost somehow. Then you will be informed to pay xx rupiahs in order to collect that package.
    I had a friend who send a package and it went around the world and came back to the country of origin after one year. (The box was opened and retaped with things missing because the package was not insured). Whereas with the Bea Cukai when they find out something that is costly inside they will name aprice and if you can’t afford it they will leave it there and later.. who knows who will get those stuffs. (Please don’t tell me it is being returned back to sender or sent to Government warehouse for safekeeping)

    Look at those Cina Benteng in Tanggerang who attempt to have a KTP is like booking a flight to the moon. Considering their present economic state, they just simply cannot afford the money being extorted.

    SBY should instruct his ministers to remove the red tapes and conduct their procurement with due diligence. Everyone from the outside world are opening their eyes looking at what is hapenning or happened to Indonesia.

    Unless the SBY is prepared to have more people like YIM, JK, ARB, HBB etc in his cabinets, I guess Departmental reform is needed badly.

  23. avatar pj_bali says:
    November 20th, 2007 at 10:00 am

    Janma
    Thanks for expressing what I’m sure a lot of us are thinking and giving the ex-minister enough rope to hang himself. I am familiar enough with the system to know that it would be unwise and ultimately against my self-interest to do too much in the way of fighting corruption. My own experience has taught me that dealing with day-to-day issues in the normal way is just a waste of time. Here are some examples.

    I have been waiting for 8 months now for PLN to upgrade the power in my house. The fees have been already paid but PLN has used a number of excuses as to why the work has not been done. The latest is that is the mud volcano in Sidoarjo has affected the total grid capacity so that the 2 extra KVA that I have asked for is not available. If thats the case what are all these new villa projects that mushrooming up using for electricty? As this has not been a crises for me I have chosen to wait and see what happens- something of an experiment. My balinese neighbor waited for an entire year before kicking up a few extra million to the right guy – got his power the next day.

    My other neightbor has kids of mixed parentage. She wants to get them dual citizenship and has been told that the processing fee will be 10 million. The alternative is continuously applying for visas. So far she has managed to keep up with the paperwork trail – I wonder what she will do if she runs out of ink.

    Even the local banjar has their hands out when it came time to get the paperwork for my my house. Should I report them as well? All I would be doing is making enemies of my neighbors and probably lose my house in the process. I would find it surprising if the courts here ruled in my favor.

    Pretty

    I was chatting to a lawyer friend in Jakarta and she mentioned that the passport office was now offering an express service for a higher fee. Similar to what you paid but now the money is over the table and not under it. Does anyone know if this is true or just an urban legend.

    regards

    PJ

  24. avatar Janma says:
    November 20th, 2007 at 10:19 am

    Hi PJ,
    yeah, I was a bit ruffled to say the least! And I’ve read Yusril’s blog and he would probably prefer it there to here because it’s full of sycophants who agree with him. There is a new post on there from some guy called Lukman who says

    Sekitar lebih kurang 3 hari yang lalu, saya membaca secara utuh perdebatan Pak Yusril dengan saudara/i yg menggunakan identitas dragonwall, dan akhirnya saya tergelitik untuk turut memberikan cooment/opini pada blog Indonesia matters, khususnya berkaitan dengan masalah visa atas kuasa Dirjen Imigrasi di KBRI/KJRI di luar negeri dan Visa on Arrival (VoA) seperti yg dipersoalkan dragon wall tersebut.

    berdasarkan ilmu yg telah saya pelajari dan pengalaman empiris yg saya alami, sekiranya saya telah mengemukakan secara panjang lebar tentang kebijakan VoA dikaitkan dengan aspek hukum, sosio historis, kedaulatan negara, asumsi kuantitatif data warga negara asing yg menggunakan fasilitas ini yg masuk ke wilayah Indonesia, kedudukan PNBP Imigrasi korelasinya dalam sistem keuangan negara (APBN), serta implikasinya dengan aspek keimigrasian yg lain seperti sebelumnya telah secara spesifik dijelaskan oleh Pak Yusril.

    Namun sayangnya, Indonesia matters tidak secara jujur ingin memuat/posting comment yg telah saya create di blog itu. Hal ini menunjukkan bahwa tekanan-tekanan melalui berita yg unbalance tidak hanya terjadi di dunia nyata, begitu halnya di dunia maya. Percaturan polemik yg tidak didukung oleh fakta hukum dan data empiris serta proses reduksi ide-ide riil yg penuh propaganda, seharusnya membuat kita makin sadar akan bahaya laten yg monolitik. Kelompok-kelompok seperti inilah yg harus diwaspadai dalam pembangunan demokratisasi pemikiran dan perang urat syaraf di negeri kita sekarang ini. Suatu hal yg menjadi keprihatinan kita bersama.

    I don’t see his post anywhere here, but it kind of freaks me out that last couple of sentences!

  25. avatar pj_bali says:
    November 20th, 2007 at 12:17 pm

    Janma

    Yes we are a danger to democracy. Whoever this Lukman guy is hasn’t read the site very much.

    I would guess that we have probably the most diverse set of opinions in Indonesia. Debates can be acrimonious from time to time but a lot of the players are still around and we always have advantage of Achmad to mix up the discussion and keep things lively.

    Usually Patung is very liberal with what he allows in terms of posting on this site, moreover he will usually send out a warning to the contributer if the language is too hot. Don’t see any of that on this thread. Unfortunately Patung is away at the moment so we can’t ask him if he blocked Lukmans comment.

    I suspect there are three possiblilties

    A) Lukman forgot to click the send button
    B) Lukman is lying thru his teeth
    C) Lukman is a mere pseudonym – the ex-minster is probably commenting to himself. Kind of like a street performer who puts some his of own money in the hat.

    PJ

  26. avatar Rambutan says:
    November 20th, 2007 at 12:24 pm

    ‘Bahaya laten yang monolitik’?? What is this guy talking about? And people posting here have to be ‘diwaspadai’?? I would think that we have to guard against fundamentalists like Yusril and his ilk in our endeavors to build democracy in Indonesia.

  27. avatar Junarto says:
    November 20th, 2007 at 1:30 pm

    The main reason why some people don’t use real name is that they want to avoid from being sued, from legal action so that they freely humiliate anybody they don’t like. Not because their name doesn’t mean anything. It had happened to Prijadi before.

    :D

  28. avatar Parvita says:
    November 20th, 2007 at 2:33 pm

    You know what, I was surprised Yusril showed up in a place like this and try to clarify things. And create his own blog, too. I visited his blog and it seems that every writing is so nice and polite…not original. You guys should write something in his blog to make it colorful. :D

  29. avatar dewaratugedeanom says:
    November 20th, 2007 at 9:17 pm

    Junarto said

    The main reason why some people don’t use real name is that they want to avoid from being sued, from legal action so that they freely humiliate anybody they don’t like.

    Should be

    … from legal or ‘other’ action so that they freely ‘criticize’ anybody they don’t like…

  30. avatar Dragonwall says:
    November 21st, 2007 at 2:20 am

    What was said like

    Percaturan polemik yg tidak didukung oleh fakta hukum dan data empiris serta proses reduksi ide-ide riil yg penuh propaganda, seharusnya membuat kita makin sadar akan bahaya laten yg monolitik. Kelompok-kelompok seperti inilah yg harus diwaspadai dalam pembangunan demokratisasi pemikiran dan perang urat syaraf di negeri kita sekarang ini. Suatu hal yg menjadi keprihatinan kita bersama

    I hoped this Lukman character could enlightened the general public in this blogshpere in more intimate detail. Lets forget you posting here or anywhere. If you have you could post it in the YIM Blog and I will see it there. It seemed that he is one that have not encounter any problem from pejabat in Indonesia.

    What was written in the YIM blog were mostly ucapan, premeditated comments posted by associates, acquaintances, friends, relatives and sympathesizers. Mostly those JP.
    It is not a matter of insults that was thown onto him. He had create the situation that he was being sacked but I still use the word dismiss.

    What the majority of Indonesian wants to know are facts and in this real world.
    If the Indonesian government cannot solve majority of the discriminative and corrupt problems that is becoming more and more malignant, then you might as well forget about saying anything to his effect. “Pembangunan Demokratis”. There were even posting that was placed and said in his blog that was even remove because I do suppose he finally finds that he is incriminating himself.
    Please don’t be a hypocrite Lukman. I saw your posting there. It does not help the people in Indonesia in plural term.

    My assumption is that you are kind of complimenting one another and defending YIM even though you knew despite the fact he was termed as a disgrace ex-minister or secretary of state for his action that betray the interest of the Indonesian people and the Republic of Indonesia.

    So I have a few questions for anyone be it Lukman or anyone.

    1. Did any one of you face any kind of problems from corrupt officials. What are they? Please name them if you are in this real world.
    2. Have you ever been told that you have to pay this and that to get certain things done besides the usual fee payable.
    3. Have you ever encounter problems with the Law, be it kepolisian or istansi pemerintah IMB, Perpajakan, etc? If yes what are they?

    Before you answer the question please indicate whether you are a pribumi or keturunan that is to be fair in the discussion. No one is “memojokan YIM” but discussing what are facts.
    Since he was told to leave his ministerial post, I do wish that the current Justice Minister and HAM and Secretary of State could provide some light in this aspect.

    It had happened to Prijadi before.

    I had looked into Priyadi’s posting and I am sure he would like to make some comments as to how he got into trouble. Please offer some comment.

    After all his blog is personal and are meant for for his friends with nice compliments.

    I suppose the comments posted by Lukman was like what “Vavai-M’V'S” termed it and was considered an irrelevant stuffs like some of mine.

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