Islamic Leaders

May 17th, 2007, in News, by

People trust religious leaders the most and view religion as the basis of nationality.

A survey of 1,173 people carried out by the Islamic and Sociological Research Center (PPIM), Pusat Pengkajian Islam dan Masyarakat, at the Syarif Hidayatullah State Islamic University in Jakarta (IAIN) asked respondents who they trusted the most detik:

  • religious leaders - 41%.
  • the president - 22%.
  • the military - 22%.
  • the police - 16%.
  • the parliament - 11%.
  • political parties - 8%.

The rector of IAIN, Azyumardi Azra, said this showed that the institutions of the state were weak in comparison to those of organised religion. He said the image of the police in particular was poor and blamed this on the May 1998 riots, when the police were unable to stop the violence.

The police did not have the capacity to deal with the riots, while politicians couldn't do anything to put an end to them.

In other questions 92% of Muslims surveyed said they are loyal to Pancasila and the 1945 constitution, although when the question was changed 23% said they desire an Islamic state. okezone

26% of people were said to approve of hand amputation for thieves.

41.3% of respondents nominated religion as the most important factor in determining the identity of the country, while 24.6% chose nationhood, with the rest divided between occupation, ethnicity, social status, and political party membership.


42 Comments on “Islamic Leaders”

  1. avatar Ramster says:

    26% of people were said to approve of hand amputation for thieves.

    Hmm how barbaric, no wonder Indonesia is not going any better. Having those amount of people thinking hardcore for the law to apply. I am so glad that these guys never managed to sit in the parliament, otherwise it would be a total disaster.

  2. avatar Aluang Anak Bayang says:

    Hi Ramster, yes 26% but if you can specify clearly, thieves means corrupt officials stealing from our state’s coffer.

    It is the same as Indonesian moslems wanted shariah, but if you tell them there is stoning, caning, amputation and beheading after every Friday sermon, they will said this is not the shariah they wanted.

  3. avatar Dimp says:

    I trust my pastor over any politicians, so this is not only limited to moslems.

  4. avatar Ihaknt says:

    Ramster, dont hold your breath. You never know.

  5. avatar Sputjam says:

    Contrary to Muslim religionist beliefs, messages in the koran warned mankind against listening to priest/imams and ulamaks. Those who have faith in God, is suppose to hold only the koran as their guide, not religous scholars. For those in possesion of the koran, read verse 9:31 onwards.

  6. avatar Colson says:

    Wow, four out of ten respondents think religion is the most important factor in determining the identity of the country.

    This raises a major dilemma.

    Being a concerned and worried outsider I would have liked the results to be ( very) different. Like: “95% prefer “common sense” to be the national identity”.

    But being an outsider it is not going to be of much help telling Indonesians what is wrong with them and what to do about it.

    So for the moment, I shall only raise my eyebrows.

  7. avatar Ihaknt says:

    Dimp, pastors, politicians, they’re all untrustworthy. They’re all human and have capability to lie.

  8. avatar Mohammed Khafi says:

    Colson,

    Don’t worry too much, just look at who carried out the survey, hardly an independent institution, we are also not told what questions were asked and how they were phrased, or even the respondent social level.

    If I asked everybody here which they would prefer to eat:

    Dry Bread
    Rotten Fruit
    Uncooked Meat
    or Sheeps Eyes?

    I think the result would be Dry Bread, that doesn’t mean that you wouldn’t want Nasi Padang if you had a choice!

    As to the question of hand amputation for thieves, most people would think nothing to helping themselves to somethng which they wanted, or overcharging you for work carried out if they didn’t know you personally or if you were from a different ethnic group, these people do not consider themselves as thieves, they are only thinking of corrupt businessmen, bankers, politicians, government officials or civil servants as being thieves, if you explained to them that their own actions would result in the loss of a hand, you would soon notice a change in their opinion. Again we are not told what question was asked.

    Not that the amputation of hands is in anyway connected to The True Faith anyway see Quran Theft.

    Dimp,
    There are only two people I trust, My God and my wife! I have already learnt the hard way not to trust any others! 😉

    Peace

    Peace

  9. avatar Aluang Anak Bayang says:

    Mas Khafi, a quick question.

    If you have 4 wives, which one do you trust? 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, or the lot?

  10. avatar Mohammed Khafi says:

    Luckily AAB,

    I have been blessed with an understanding of Al Quran which allows me to see quite clearly, that marriage to multiple partners was only allowed during times of war when many widows and orphans were in need of support, and also to understand that the marriage agreement at that time was not as we understand it in modern times but was also a social contract to give help, support and shelter to those who needed it and not purely as a matter of sex.

    There is no blame on you if you divorce women when you have not touched them or appointed for them a portion, and make provision for them, the wealthy according to his means and the straitened in circumstances according to his means, a provision according to usage; a duty on the doers of good. 2:236

    I have been doubly blessed with a wife who I consider to be a gift from Allah himself, I have no need of any other as long as she shares my life with me and our beautiful children.

    Peace

  11. avatar Aluang Anak Bayang says:

    Warily Mas Khafi,

    I am also blessed with a brain to discern what is nonsense and what is not. Why don’t Allah just put out verse like,
    ‘Refuges and provision should made to widows and orphans in need of support. Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Forbearing. .’

    ‘Adopted daughters and daughter-in-laws are not halal. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.’

    Instead verse like, ‘Your wives are as a tilth unto you’, puts hastily married-off widows in risk of being raped.

  12. avatar Niamh Piperman says:

    Mohammed Khafi yth,

    If ever you publish a commentary on Al Quran, can you let me know. I think it’d be a valuable resource.

    Cheers,

    NP

  13. avatar Mohammed Khafi says:

    AAB,

    If you were truely blessed with such a brain, I have to believe that you would be able to discern the true message of Al Quran, and the Islam which I believe in. You would also realise that to avoid a clash of religions or cultures in future that Mainstream Islam has to be changed and that can only come about from within.

    Niamh Piperman,

    Thank you for the compliment, I truely believe that implemented as intended, Al Quran and its teachings will lead to a universal tolerance and acceptance of all faiths. Why it is so difficult to convince others of that I don’t really know, maybe it is just human nature to believe that only our own beliefs are the truth.

    Peace

  14. avatar Colson says:

    @Mohammed Khafi: I strongly believe your interpretation of ( your) religion is the one that should be universal.

    But there is a problem: “it is just human nature to believe that only your own beliefs are the truth”. I would like to add that it’s not only human nature: by definiton monotheistic religions themselves claim the exclusive, absolute and eternal truth.

    So, a wise and tolerant believer of any (monotheistic) religion has to confront a major dilemma.

  15. avatar Mohammed Khafi says:

    Colson,

    I don’t see a problem with claiming the exclusive, absolute and eternal truth, as long as that exclusive, absolute and eternal truth is tolerant, caring, reasoning, and loving, I believe that God wants us to learn to live together, but gives us the free will to choose how we do it.

    God gave us Faith, Mankind gave us Religion, we just have to choose the correct one. There is nothing to be gained from hating and killing our fellow man just because he has a different view from us, however there is everything to be gained from reaching out and making friends, sharing our resources and knowledge and building a future together.

    Peace

  16. avatar Aluang Anak Bayang says:

    Mas Khafi,

    If you were truely blessed with such a brain, I have to believe that you would be able to discern the true message of Al Quran, and the Islam which I believe in.

    When I come across the wife-swapping verse (which I’ve discussed with you earlier), I can close my eye and blank out my mind a thousand times, but when I come back on, wife-swapping is still wife-swapping. Moslem on the other hand can readily tell you it is highly virtuous.

    You would also realise that to avoid a clash of religions or cultures in future that Mainstream Islam has to be changed and that can only come about from within.

    If something is hard to swallow and you have other options, why the hassle? Just discard it.

    God gave us Faith, Mankind gave us Religion, we just have to choose the correct one. There is nothing to be gained from hating and killing our fellow man just because he has a different view from us, however there is everything to be gained from reaching out and making friends, sharing our resources and knowledge and building a future together.

    No offence but *yawn*.

  17. avatar Janma says:

    AAB says;

    “When I come across the wife-swapping verse (which I’ve discussed with you earlier), I can close my eye and blank out my mind a thousand times, but when I come back on, wife-swapping is still wife-swapping. Moslem on the other hand can readily tell you it is highly virtuous.”

    LOL… bless your eyes Aluang Anak Bayang!

  18. avatar Janma says:

    Maybe the trick is to just keep your eyes closed!

  19. avatar Mohammed Khafi says:

    Or, ABB, trying to keep your mouth closed, because everytime you open it, it seems to be spewing hatred.

    I can see you have no desire to learn the truth about Islam in its true form, I guess your hatred is stronger than you desire to learn, I am not suggesting that you adopt it, just learn, but that seems to be beyond your capability.

    Even when verses are explained to you in a manner which removes the violence or contradictions which you believe are in them, rather than accept you reject.

    The great mass of mainstream Muslims in this county cannot be changed by your confrontational approach, which will only lead to them becoming defensive and closing off even more. ultimately this will lead to more polarisation between communities and ultimately a clash, the Wahabbis will have won! If this is what you want carry on with your hateful rhetoric.

    Islam can only be changed from within!

    Peace

  20. avatar Sputjam says:

    Abraham was born into a community, much like the Indonesian Muslim community. The community inherited a religion, whereby they worship things and do rituals. Abraham, much like Issac newton, questioned his father on the need for worship, (while issac newton questioned on why the apple dropped to the ground).
    Use your common sense brothers.
    If there is no description on rituals worship in koran, and none of the stories concerning any prophets performing ritual worship/haj/fast, why are you so called “submitters” inventing these rituals.
    Moses and Jesus could not make their followers understand the concept of serving the one God. What more Mohamed when he was confronted by pagan Arabs.
    Do the so called Muslim community in Indonesia really believe that the teachings now being propagated by imams/clerics etc are the true messages of God?
    I have stopped going to mosques and do five daily rituals, as that is not what God intended for us.
    Merely, serve God by doing good deeds. Be righteous. For you will be judged by your deeds alone. You will not be judged by the number of worship you have performed, nor the number of haj completed, nor the amount of money you donated to build mosques.
    “Satan has made the performance of ritual worship seem pleasant to mankind”. How many times was this messages repeated in the koran? several times if I remember correctly.
    If you need God, He is everywhere, omnipresent and omniscience. He knows whatever you hide and your thoughts. He is the sustainer, therefore seek help from God alone.
    And refrain from serving/worshipping anything else other than God. Stop going around stones in mecca. And stop all ritual worship practices.

  21. avatar Julita says:

    M. Khafi: Islam can only be changed from within!

    That is very true, no question about it, but as soon as some of the Moslems with good intention, dare to group together, come up have suggestions and want to do some study,clarification, changes or educate. There is always somebody coming up saying they are not the true Molsems and again say it has to be changed from within.

    I once had to answer a question in this matter, something like top, strong ranking leaders in this religion to get together and form a council. Who will have the say for all. Am I doing right? Did not get a feed-back? M. Khafi, I surely will vote for you.

  22. avatar Mohammed Khafi says:

    Hi Julita,

    Unfortunately the wheels of change, grind exceedingly slowly.

    Peace

  23. avatar Julita says:

    M. Khafi, still looking forward to that time.

  24. Interesting. Well, this is Indonesia we’re talking about, we love our religions and we worship the so-called religious leaders. But, too shame, the so-called religious leaders are just using religious attributes to deceive the people.

  25. avatar Ismayanto Prihandariyanto says:

    To Sputjam.
    Do you think that Moses is historically real like mentioned in Bible and Koran??? He is nothing but an Egyptian not Jew!!! Abraham never existed in history! The idea of circumcision was actually taken from Egypt! Why do you still believe in those fairy tales!!! Jesus’ ideas are influenced from even India, like also Muhammad’s from his surrounding areas. Please be enlightened completely!!!

  26. avatar John Spiteri says:

    Do REALLY MUSLIMS BELIEVE IN GOD ?

    Before, I experience Indonesian/Muslim friendship. Myself John Spiteri a Roman Catholic. I used to say that I am a Catholic & a Muslim because we are brothers & share One True Almighty God . Today, I hate Indonesia. I hate the people of Indonesia. I hate Islam.
    I wander which god do Muslims believe in ?
    Violation related to forged-documents by [details deleted by admin] together with her Indo/Malaysian regime are seeking sanctuary in the north European hemisphere. Gaining strategy organizing operation-base for
    JEMAAH al ISLAMIAH activities.
    While the underground-base at Cawang-Hidayah is still operative run by Gunawan,Hendra,Devi & Iva using various coded communications I know only :-
    >>> jalank2001 <<< [phone numbers deleted by admin]…… You require further details :- pictures, documents & information
    contact me John email : doger@onvol.net

  27. avatar Rob says:

    John Spiteri…

    The point of your post is what?

  28. avatar Aluang Anak Bayang says:

    @ John Spiteri

    You posted under the wrong heading. Future posts should be here.

  29. avatar John Spiteri says:

    Mr.Rob,

    This message is for intellectuals. Intended to strengthen believe in God, not in oneself.

    God Bless & regards,

    John

  30. avatar Rob says:

    Mr. John…

    Oh! Only for intellectuals?

    I was more interested in the “why” with regards to the posting of addresses and phone numbers and how this is on any benefit to intellectuals.

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