Women Judges

Mar 4th, 2007, in IM Posts, by

Women cannot be judges under sharia law, says a senior Egyptian judge.

Yahia Ragheb Daqruri, the president of the Egypt's judges' association, or Judges' Club, says jurist that the appointment of female judges would contradict Islamic sharia law.

He reasoned that it would be unacceptable for women judges to have to deliberate

alone in a room with two or more male judges

and asserted that women judges would inevitably

become pregnant at some point, and that the pregnancy will certainly have an impact on the judicial prestige and on judges' public image.

He is also said to have implied that becoming mothers would adversely affect female judges' ability to handle certain cases:

giving birth can also have an impact on the cases a female judge is dealing with being dealt with correctly.

People present in the court would also be disturbed by the presence of a woman judge, he said. khaleejtimes

His reasoning was based on

the consensus of doctors of law and the principles of Sharia

Article Two of Egyptian Constitution, a 1980 constitutional amendment, says that

the principal source of legislation is the Sharia.

___________________

March 15th 2007.

On the 14th thirty-one new female judges were appointed to the Egyptian bench. Egypt's Supreme Judicial Council chief Mukbil Shakir selected the judges from a pool of state prosecutors who had passed a test for the positions, though it is unclear to which courts the women will be assigned. This marks the first time women have been named to preside over criminal or civil cases in Egypt.

Some feminists complained that only state prosecutors were eligible. jurist


86 Comments on “Women Judges”

  1. avatar Ihaknt says:

    What can women do under sharia? NOTHING! They’re there for reproduction, to be abused and to not exist!

  2. avatar Tomaculum says:

    alone in a room with two or more male judges

    What would they do? Lawless orgy? 🙂

    Ihaknt, you forgot one thing: to cook (and if they can’t cook then to be a sandbag?)
    Read here: http://news.indosiar.com/news_print.htm?id=58830

  3. avatar Hassan says:

    Ihaknt: “What can women do under sharia? NOTHING! They’re there for reproduction, to be abused and to not exist!”

    Did that conclusion come after an extensive study of Islamic laws and doctrines, or did that come from your prejudice over your own religion?

    If I’m not mistaken you’re a non-practicing Muslim, the funny thing is every time the subject of Sharia surfaced suddenly you became an expert on Sharia, mastering the every detail of it’s uselessness and vile nature.

    Have you studied the topic of Sharia by opening the Quran and Hadith? Or did you simply follow the ongoing stereotype about Sharia? I suspect it’s the latter.

    Tomaculum: The link you provided was about domestic violence in general which had nothing to do with Sharia or the role of women in Islam. You sounded as if you’re trying to say ‘that is how women are treated under Sharia’.

    Please put more care in your insinuations.

  4. avatar Dimp says:

    Hi Hassan,

    Can you please then elaborate why should we implement Sharia? I have never actually see that any countries imposing Sharia has actually better themselves. All I can see is there are more injustices. Take Aceh for example, all I hear is that small criminals get punished (gamblers, non-jilbab-wearing women), while the governor who have rorted the public money still lives as a free man.

  5. avatar Ihaknt says:

    Oh Hassan, it’s good you take the bait. I don’t claim myself as expert unlike you. YOU ARE THE EXPERT. Me not worthy compared to you. What is my knowledge compared to yours? But you’re the one who said it’s useless and vile in nature 😉 and the stereotype? Well change it then, show the goodness in it.
    Hassan you are better than me because I am a non-practising Muslim, I apologise for forgeting that detail. Oh how sinful soul have I been. Shame on me Hassan, shame on me!

  6. avatar Dimp says:

    Hi ihaknt,

    Oh how sinful soul have I been.

    Indeed shame on you, how can you live in sins and not invite me along. Shame! Shame! Shame!

  7. avatar Ihaknt says:

    I don’t invite you because I am a woman. If I did something un-shariah-ly I will go to hell.

  8. avatar Janma says:

    I watched a very funny interview by Ali G with a retired high court judge from England and he asked the judge why they allow women in juries. The judge was surprised. Why not? He responds, Women or men, it’s an equal opportunity. Ali G then asked, “well what about when they are ‘on the rag'”
    “Excuse me”? says judge,
    “you know, says Ali G “got their monthly”.
    “well I don’t see why that should impede them.”
    “Of course it should impede them!” Ali G says… He then goes onto explain that his girlfriend julie when she is on her rag thinks that everything he does is wrong and that everyone is guilty.
    The judge smiles and ponders that he’d never thought of it quite like that.

  9. avatar Ihaknt says:

    Heheheh, these days there are tampons! Maybe that’s why the judge didn’t get the term ‘rag’. Was this from Borat?

  10. avatar Dimp says:

    Jagsheemash,

    Another funny one was from Borat (same guy), when he asked feminists if it is a problem for women to be educated as they have smaller brains than men.

    Cracks me up everytime.

    Cingui.

  11. avatar Parvita says:

    Dimp, gorillas have bigger brains then human beings. LOL. So does Neanderthals.

    Aaargh…it will always be controversial. In Indonesia, no matter male or female judge, they accept hot money, whether they are ‘in the rag or not’! I adore Egyptians such as Nawal El Sadawi and her novels. We need more of her not only in Egypt but everywhere around the world!

  12. avatar Ihaknt says:

    Parvita, but it’s against the Sharia 😉

  13. avatar Tomaculum says:

    Hassan,
    you just don’t understand what I mean.
    And please don’t come with ayats!

  14. avatar Hassan says:

    Ihaknt: “Oh Hassan, it’s good you take the bait. I don’t claim myself as expert unlike you. YOU ARE THE EXPERT. Me not worthy compared to you. What is my knowledge compared to yours.”

    I never consider myself to be an expert as you suggest, but I never ever condemn something that I don’t understand or condemn it before I researched the topic from a proper source. I didn’t say that you have no right to talk about Sharia, it’s just that it seemed odd for someone who haven’t study about Sharia from Quran or Hadith to babble so much rubbish about the matter, vilifying it, as you liked to do.

    Study about it first from your own religion’s holybook. Too smart or proud for that? The last thing that any religion need is one of it’s follower who do not understand the teachings and tenets of that religion properly, badmouthing the teachings and tenets of his/her own religion publicly.

    “Well change it then, show the goodness in it.”

    What do you mean by “it”? If you meant the goodness in Sharia, well how can I? It wasn’t even implemented yet in Indonesia as a whole! If you meant the goodness in Islam, then I can ask you too as a fellow Muslim, what have you done to show the goodness in Islam? By badmouthing and making fun of it’s teachings?

    “Hassan you are better than me because I am a non-practising Muslim”

    An ignorant stereotype. Every person who reminded others about their religion must be a ‘self-righteous, I’m-better-than-you’ guy, huh?

    PS. As usual, you evaded answering my question. Have you studied the topic of Sharia by opening the Quran and Hadith? Or did you simply follow the ongoing stereotype about Sharia? You know, considering how expertly you talked on the topic of Sharia’s ‘greatness’..

    Tomaculum: Then enlighten me, what exactly do you mean?

  15. avatar Janma says:

    I think he means, that he tried to study it and got to the bit about beating, killing and amputating and kind of lost his taste for it. Kind of does put you off you know.

  16. avatar Ihaknt says:

    No Hassan my darling. I don’t feel like it. I do what I want and if it pisses you off or makes you ticked, that’s even better 😀 but I guess you figured that one out.

    “it” = Sharia.

    I never consider myself to be an expert as you suggest, but I never ever condemn something that I don’t understand or condemn it before I researched the topic from a proper source

    Hohoho, but you can say whatever you want when it comes to the bad ugly west. Accusations of conspiracies etc. Pah! But you do keep it interesting. Give me more ayats please!

  17. avatar Hassan says:

    Janma, another expert on the downside of Sharia, you wouldn’t happen to know the benefits of Sharia, would you? I guess not. 😉

    The whole picture is important, Janma. You can’t study an elephant by cutting it’s tail and bring it to the lab or something like that.

    Ihaknt: “Hohoho, but you can say whatever you want when it comes to the bad ugly west. Accusations of conspiracies etc. Pah! But you do keep it interesting. Give me more ayats please!”

    Believe it or not I did studied about those things first, I gave links to some of my sources, didn’t I? But of course my sources are not the foxnews types, which are apparently yours. I opened sites, forums, links, news channels, papers, etc. prior to commenting on an issue. Have you opened any Islamic source before starting to make fun of Sharia (or indeed your own Muslim brethren)?

    “Give me more ayats please!”

    So you (a Muslim) can then ignore it (the words of your own God)? No thanks, ihaknt.

    You’re free to open the Quran yourself, though. 😉

  18. avatar Hassan says:

    ihaknt:

    My Question: “Have you studied the topic of Sharia by opening the Quran and Hadith? Or did you simply follow the ongoing stereotype about Sharia?”

    Your answer: “No Hassan my darling. I don’t feel like it.”

    I guess that means to followed the stereotype, huh?

  19. avatar Ihaknt says:

    Hassan honey, I got you to do all the study. So thank you. I just argue with you when I am bored at work 😉 thanks for making my day!

  20. avatar Robert says:

    The ideas of Judge Yahia Ragheb Daqruri are very condemnable. They testify of a mind which considers women to be second-rate human beings. It just shows that some men still have problems accepting women as their equals instead of their subordinate. Whether his ideas are sharia-based or just are figments of his imagination is not important. They are just stupid and dangerous.

  21. avatar Dimp says:

    Hi Robert,

    It just shows that some men still have problems accepting women as their equals instead of their subordinate. Whether his ideas are sharia-based or just are figments of his imagination is not important. They are just stupid and dangerous.

    It actually shows that they are just afraid of what women can do, they probably know that women can do better job than they are. So one thing that they can do is to ban the women from taking their job. They are just insecured pitiful men.

  22. avatar Mohammed Khafi says:

    Hassan,

    You said:

    So you (a Muslim) can then ignore it (the words of your own God)?

    Sharia, the word of God? Isn’t Al Quran the word of God? I though Sharia was manmade laws based on some human interpretation?

    You will of course have noticed in the article above that the following statements are made:

    “would contradict Islamic sharia law”
    “the consensus of doctors of law and the principles of Sharia”
    “the principal source of legislation is the Sharia”

    Not one mention of Allah or Al Quran, strange don’t you think?

    How about these verses in Al Quran, does Allah say that women are lower than men or equals?

    “As for those who lead a righteous life, MALE OR FEMALE. while believing, they enter Paradise; without the slightest injustice” 4:124

    ” Anyone who works righteousness, MALE OR FEMALE, while believing, we will surely grant them a happy life in this world, and we will surely pay them their full recompense for their righteous works.” 16:97

    “Whoever commits a sin is requited for just that, and whoever works righteousness – MALE OR FEMALE – while believing, these will enter Paradise wherein they receive provisions without any limits.” 40:40

    Lets just take a quick look at what your Hadith says about women shall we:

    Volume 1, Book 6, Number 301:
    Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:

    Once Allah’s Apostle went out to the Musalla (to offer the prayer) o ‘Id-al-Adha or Al-Fitr prayer. Then he passed by the women and said, “O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women).” They asked, “Why is it so, O Allah’s Apostle ?” He replied, “You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you.” The women asked, “O Allah’s Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?” He said, “Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?” They replied in the affirmative. He said, “This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn’t it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?” The women replied in the affirmative. He said, “This is the deficiency in her religion.”

    Volume 7, Book 62, Number 124:
    Narrated Usama:

    The Prophet said, “I stood at the gate of Paradise and saw that the majority of the people who entered it were the poor, while the wealthy were stopped at the gate (for the accounts). But the companions of the Fire were ordered to be taken to the Fire. Then I stood at the gate of the Fire and saw that the majority of those who entered it were women.”

    Yet you still believe this sort of thing? Hardly following the Word of God is it?

    Peace

  23. avatar Robert says:

    Hassan,

    What do you mean by “it”? If you meant the goodness in Sharia, well how can I? It wasn’t even implemented yet in Indonesia as a whole!

    Sharia was implemented in other countries like Afghanistan, Iran, Yemen, Jordan and Saudi-Arabia. So there you will find plenty examples of the goodness in sharia. You don’t have to wait until sharia is implemented in Indonesia as a whole. By the way what is wrong with the sharia in Aceh? Doesn’t that provide good examples?

    Believe it or not I did studied about those things first, I gave links to some of my sources, didn’t I? But of course my sources are not the foxnews types, which are apparently yours. I opened sites, forums, links, news channels, papers, etc. prior to commenting on an issue.

    With your vast knowledge it should’t be a problem for you to convince us of the goodness of sharia-based laws. So I will refrain from any more comments concerning the sharia or sharia-based laws, there you’ll probrably provide us with ample evidence of its goodness.

  24. avatar Parvita says:

    What’s wrong with a woman having a good career because she is capable of, a wife, a mother, all at the same time? There are women that can do that, you know. Us women are capable of multi-tasking you know. I wear complete make up on the way to the office, DRIVING.

    Sharia is different than what’s written in the Qur’an, all. Sharia are things that you do, for togetherness. It is manmade, interpreted by human, from the Qur’an, Hadith, and sometimes the local culture.

    Example: Point to me one ayat that says paying 2.5% of your belonging (is it the total money you have in the bank, those just not being used or the total money, which?) is in the Qur’an. It is sharia. It is good, giving to the poor. But it’s not written in the Qur’an.

    More extreme one: the prayer.
    Show me an ayat that says that Subuh is 2 raka’at, Zuhur is 4, Maghrib is 3, these are the things you have to read and say, your right hand on the top of the left, etc, you have to kiss the ground, bend your back, etc. You do it for the togetherness. Even that, think about it, why do the Mohammadiyah says the different thing from the NU followers at the beginning of the first raka’at (Surat Iftitah?). Which one is good? Which one is bad? Why God sent two version?

    It is good, you know, praying together. But it is not written in the Qur’an to do such movement. Does Mohammed prays like that? Doubt it. Let alone Ibrahim, Yesus, Adam, Noah, while in the QUr’an, it clearly says to follow what our messengers did, without differentiating each of them.

    Mohammed has to say the two shahadat? Why, he is the messenger. “I am the witness there is no God except Allah and I AM THE MESSENGER?”. Why does he have to say that, if he does prayer like we do, he says that at least 2 times! And he says shalawat to his own family? Doesn’t that sound a bit questionable? So Sholat is shariah. To me.

    Women not allowed to do noble things such as a judge or teacher (a junior of mine who is a ‘strict moslem’ refuses to stand up in front of the lab to teach in spite of her knowledge because to her, women being in the front of people is a sin. Bah. What a waste of intelligence and what a sin), is a waste of talent given by God and that is a sign of a person who cannot be grateful of using the most of what has been given by God. Just keeping your talent and your knowledge to yourself is the same as not sharing the ‘rizki’ from Allah. Wasting your capability to learn is laziness, same as a cow, which should be slaughtered (the laziness, not the poor cow).

    Men or women, applies the same.

  25. avatar Mohammed Khafi says:

    Well said Parvita,

    Yet I somehow don’t think that ‘Hassan the Blind’ will be able to understand! Why do so many people put their faith in rituals and manmade innovation? You only need to see how intolerant and narrow minded they are to see that they clearly are not guided by God. Just a pity that they cannot see it themselves.

    Peace

  26. avatar Ihaknt says:

    Ok Hassan, it’s time for me to be a bit more serious. I couldnt be bothered having a serious talk with anyone yesterday let alone with you. Anyway, for me, anything that will suppresses women’s rights, equality, intelligence etc sh*ts me. Whether it’s sharia or not. Wherever it is! I am lucky to not have had to live under those circumstances nor will be affected by the implementation of sharia in Indo. But when it comes to women being treated unfairly due to mere lack of a male genital then I won’t stand it. This discussion is talking about sharia on women. Now give me just one example where sharia is good for the women’s development, intellectually and emotionally. And being the first wife out of 4 is not a good example so please look for something else. You said I avoided your question, now don’t do what I did and answer me and give me an example!

  27. avatar Dimp says:

    Hi MK,

    Yet I somehow don’t think that ‘Hassan the Blind’ will be able to understand!

    Even the blind can appreciate the view of others.

    Some people are just to focus on one view, and to afraid to open their mind and reject any opinions other than what have been programmed to their head. Sad to see that there are still a lot of Indonesians who can be regarded as these ‘narrow-minded’ people.

  28. avatar Parvita says:

    Sad to see that there are still a lot of Indonesians who can be regarded as these ‘narrow-minded’ people.

    Dimp: not only in Indonesia, it’s around the world.
    Most of us, so-called moslem, which should refer to the Qur’an, don’t do that. Seldom of us open up the Holy Book and learn and reveal the truth by themselves. They prefer to do the easy way: listen to ceramah, read other books, or simply just hear from somebody. Sometimes, we are forbidden to ask about our faith (silly!), I think it also applies to other religion. Once you read the Qur’an, you will be amazed how different the practise and what is written.

    Those who call themselves ‘fundamentalist moslem’ are most likely not fundamentalist moslems. Fundamentalist moslems are those who just believe in what is said in the Qur’an because it is the guidance for moslems.

  29. avatar Dimp says:

    Hi Parvita,

    I agree with you, so many “narrow-minded” people in this planet. If you ever had a chance to see a documentary called “Camp Jesus” then you can see how the same thing applied to Christians as well. It still gives me shiver down my spine.

    But I am more concern with Indonesians at this point as I am an Indonesian and still love Indonesia.

  30. avatar Mohammed Khafi says:

    Dimp said:

    Yet I somehow don’t think that ‘Hassan the Blind’ will be able to understand!
    Even the blind can appreciate the view of others.

    My Apologies Dimp, not very clear on my part, I didn’t really mean blindness of the eyes, more a blindness of the heart!

    Peace

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