54 Comments on “Jakarta Chinese”

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1. Raden Says:
   April 28th, 2007 at 4:30 pm

   Things will be situational decision in the future, I said this due to the past experience living in Indonesia. You will agree with me, it is not me as individual who changed but Indonesia as a nation have been transforming into different kind of directions or it maybe directionless today. In anyway OrdeBaru or Reformasi era, there will be no right equality for chinese Indonesian, we experienced it together & that’s the facts. Please do not hope, if you keep on hoping, you will be dissapointed one day when the time is up and you will get older & powerless. Take action & control of your family’s future.

2. Sputjam Says:
   April 28th, 2007 at 11:27 pm

   Remember this folks. The malay race is just beginning to proceed beyond the feudal stage. Despite what was mentioned in history, malays were never big time traders. Most areas within the archipelago were ruled by a warlords who would implement a regime of tolls(for usage of rivers and safe harbours) and taxation. These warlords were served by a compliment of advisors and cheiftains and slaves for a certain area. If there is a warlord within the vicinity, the chances are that the whole village’s job is to serve that person.

   When traders from India/china do trading within their areas, they were taxed accordingly. The taxes goes to the warlord, and trickles down according to the position a man sits within the hierarchy.

   We can study that resemblance today, whereby, the malay groups collect taxes and tolls from traders. (mostly chinese and indians).

   Malays are not city dwellers. All the large cities within the archipelago were built by either the europeans or the chinese.town planners and architect are non-existant within the malay race. Houses were built without drawings, even palaces.

   To the malays, the concept of trading is to sell a product at a higher price, or getting commissions. the concept of managing cash flow is totally alien to them.

   Embracing globalisation is unheard of. The malays never did venture beyond their confort zone. hence an island as large as Australia were never colonised or settled by malays.

   Due to history, whenever a malay sees a chinese, their first priority is to collect taxes. And their obligation towards a succesful malay person is to ask for assistance, either financially or otherwise. The malays are still feudalistic in nature.

3. Aluang anak Bayang Says:
   April 29th, 2007 at 12:04 am

   The malay race is just beginning to proceed beyond the feudal stage.

   I disagree. We are approaching the stone age. We have a fatal attraction to anything boulder-like e.g worshipping rock and stoning women.

4. Dymal Says:
   April 29th, 2007 at 3:42 am

   I disagree. We are approaching the stone age. We have a fatal attraction to anything boulder-like e.g worshipping rock and stoning women.

   Hahahaa, be optimist Aluang, or you are in the bad mood this week end?

5. Sputjam Says:
   April 29th, 2007 at 8:42 pm

   I think on matters pertaining to faith, it is a bad idea to mock those of differing beliefs. However if you have a strong opinion towards certain matters, then this is the place to voice out.

6. Aluang anak Bayang Says:
   April 29th, 2007 at 11:26 pm

   It certainly is not right to mock others belief. When they are peaceful and remain in their worshippers’ private domain, who cares. When they claim to be the one true religion for all mankind and tried to forcibly impose it on the society you are part of, it is everyone’s business to question it.

7. Raden Says:
   May 7th, 2007 at 1:52 am

   That’s what I called it as the real & present danger in ASEAN but not only unique to Indonesia. I heard if the Mindanao’s & Yala’s Muslim radicals backed by the Malaysia with all the ammunitions/weapons? Do anyone heard or agree about it?

8. Raden Says:
   May 11th, 2007 at 8:30 am

   Hm, nobody comment here, but I don’t care, this is internet as a free expression a truly democratic space.
   I repeat again, can we tolerate the majority Muslim nations back the minority Muslim militants in budhist / Christian / Catholics majority countries by all means of way supporting actions either directly or indirectly?

   Please don’t be shy.

9. Janma Says:
   May 11th, 2007 at 9:14 am

   Dear Raden.

   NO.

10. Arema Says:
    May 11th, 2007 at 1:09 pm

    @Raden: It’s a definite NO. They just blindly supporting without thinking which one is right and which one is wrong. And supporting the wrong will make one in the wrong side too.

11. Raden Says:
    May 21st, 2007 at 10:25 pm

    Enough said, the chinese in Indonesia should not & do not ever expect the equality in rights in all aspects. Please don’t ever think about it, it is completely miss appropriation of the facts.
    Our problems, we are living in the middle of millions of incapable pribumi, we are living & breathing at the speed of theirs relax time zone. For example, LapindoBrantas is the real enemy of ‘wong cilik’, pity wong cilik in Porong, because of their slave mentality, none of them is dare to take the matter up into United Nation. Their mental is kacung & nrimo, that’s it. A company like Lapindo Brantas is deserved to be burnt by the infamous Indonesian Muslim Militants, ironically the militants prefer to burn the chinese because of hatred but our Militants melted against the real greed pribumi conglomerates who are their real enemies in this lovely republic.

    How many are the victim of Porong? Is the impact smaller than some shop houses burnt in Glodok? Why no one is dare to burn Lapindo office?

    Dear chinese brothers, get out from Indonesia now!

12. Raden Says:
    May 22nd, 2007 at 8:27 am

    Forgot to mention, I hail pak Munir (belated)’s wife, she is a modern Kartini hero of Indonesian, she is dare & brave to speak-up for her right up to international level, the United Nation ! she can make things happen.
    Good, this is very good man, if every pribumi have mental like her, I am sure Indonesia will be successful like the China today.

13. Sputjam Says:
    May 22nd, 2007 at 9:16 am

    That’s what I called it as the real & present danger in ASEAN but not only unique to Indonesia. I heard if the Mindanao’s & Yala’s Muslim radicals backed by the Malaysia with all the ammunitions/weapons? Do anyone heard or agree about it?

    Malaysia suffers all the problems faced by other ASEAN countries. During the aceh uprising, there was a huge refugee colony in Malaysia. However acehnese have been migrating and settling in northen Malaysia and among the prominent Malaysian of acehnese descent is none other than P. Ramlee. Despite all that, Indonesia blamed malaysia for supporting the acehnese.

    There is also a huge Myanmar of rohingyas origin in malaysia, staying as refugees, as well as a huge myanmar labour force, particularly working in night spots and pubs, as bar tenders.

    In the case of Southern Thailand, they are actually parts of the malay states until overwhelmed by Thai forces, maybe 100 odd years ago (maybe 120 years).
    When the british came, the Thais offered four states (Kedah, Kelantan, Terengganu, perlis) to the british in exchange for railways from Malaya (as it was called then) to bangkok. That railway is still in use today. The remaining states are still under Thai rule (Yala, pattani, satun, narathiwat).

    Since then, the four southern province in Thailand have been in turmoil until 20 odd years ago, when a peace accord was reached, whereby the malayan communist party, which is based in southern thailand and the liberation forces fighting for independence from thailand decided to sue for peace. That peace lasted until the army base in thailand and northern malaysia was ransacked by a gang which ran off with weapons maybe three to four years ago. But unlike the gangs in malaysia which was caught and jailed or placed under ISA, the ones in Thailand managed to hide and are now believed to be behind the violence. Thai intelligence in the malay province in lacking and hence failure to subdue insurgency.

    In Mindanao, Phillipines claim that sabah is part of the sulu empire (based in southern phillipines) and therefore is a phillipines territory. Unfortunately for the phillipines, the first chief minister of sabah is a descendant of the sulu monarchy, who claimed that the sulu and mindanao people are not part of phllipines as they were not conquered by either the spanish nor the americans, but was included as phillipines territory by the americans (much like the aceh territory). So the sulu and mindanao people are fighting the phillipne army to liberate themselves from that country. Of course, during the time of marcos, hordes of Christians from northern luzon were tranmigrated there, and now there is a volatile mix of religion who are kiling each other, whereby the population is now almost 50/50 from predominantly Muslims before.

    Enter afghanistan. During the soviet invasion, CIA used these Muslim heartlands to create a very cheap and effective volunteer force to fight the soviet invasion. Some of the more prominent fighters are abu sayyaf from Mindanao, Osama bi laden etc. All it cost the US taxpayers are some technical training in bomb making and weapons handling and a one way ticket to kabul via peshawar in pakistan. And as these fighters are easily replaced when obliterated by the soviets, it wore the soviets down. Upon the soviets leaving afghanistan, these trained fighters have nothing to do, except look for more additional hotspots, such as Bosnia, chechnya and some return home to their kampungs in southern thailand, Mindanao, Yemen etc. The people you see now in southern thailand insurgency are probably remnants of that fighting force. Anoher reason for them to fight is that oil was discovered on south eastern shores, and it seems the Thai government is not sharing that wealth with the locals. On the western Muslim province, there is no insurgency. Only the oil rich eastern parts have troubles.

    If you look a history, whether it is the vietnamese refugees, or Christians from pakistan, Malaysia seems to be the first safe haven for them.

14. Aluang Anak Bayang Says:
    May 22nd, 2007 at 9:24 am

    Thanks for the historical background. Gee, I wish I have that much knowledge and spare time to look around. I only know Kalimantan and the surroundings.

15. Sputjam Says:
    May 22nd, 2007 at 9:48 am

    Kalimantan is a boring place. Almost nothing happens there unless the haze due to forest fire begins and chokes the population of sarawak.
    But I believe, a huge number of plantations companies worldwide are scrambling for land there and the beautiful women in sengkawang are famous, attracting propective grooms from korea and japan (or so I was told).

16. Hing Says:
    August 31st, 2007 at 12:03 am

    Dear all, after reading randomly some of your comments here, I’m very sad. Why & how pribumi Indonesians are so impudent? Why are they so shamelessly discriminate Chinese descents wantonly without even showing a slight mercy?

    Chinese Indonesians are 1,000 times worse than Chinese Malaysians. This is mainly due to larger population bullies smaller population.

    I’m a Chinese Malaysia, we’re discriminated by Malays, the government as well but not as bad as Chinese Indonesians but I guess the current situation will become no better in future.

    We have NEP, National Economic Policy that suppose to eradicate poverty regardless of race, religion & gender but since its inception, even Orang Asli are deny as the indigenous peoples of Malaysia!

    Malays are granted with Malays Special Rights. As the name suggests, needless for me to tell, you already know its intention.

    Can I know whether Malays were originated from Sumatra, Borneo or Java?
    As far as I know, Msian government has altered its histories a lot. I can’t trust Msian history books. Non-Malays are forced to admit 30% of bumiputra (similar to Indonesian pribumi) if non-Malays wish to setup large scale business. This is bullsh*t.

    I personally reckon Malays & Indonesians are from the same ancestor. They’re very egoistic; pathetic; cynical & afraid of losing ones’ face. Terms like bumiputra & pribumi are the same so why are they so keen to use these term?

    The only reason is paranoid & psychopathic disorder of over worrying others to claim land ownership.

    Muslims worldwide are not easy to coexist with other faiths.

    For those who wish to read more comments raise by Malaysians of various races can go to http://www.monsterblog.com.my

17. Dragonwall Says:
    September 7th, 2007 at 3:55 am

    I find it very disturbing when some stupid a**hole expressly say that he detest me being an immigrant.
    He had proven again, without any doubts that his mentality was so low that anyone in these blogs had an IQ higher than his grey stuff can hold.
    “I said I live in Indonesia long enough to consider myself more Indonesian than Singaporean.” I said my children were Indonesian born and anytime I could convert them into a red passport without any hassle. It also mean that I was therre long enough to understand the mentality of the pris but that does not mean that I had migrated to Indonesia. I am not that stupid to trade my red passport for a green garuda like syonan.
    People who thinks that he is polite and not arrogant had once again prove him a culprit many times over.
    He is always quoting the Al Quran as though he knew a lot or trying to indoctrinate others into believing he is a true believer. Big ZERO for him.
    If salman rushdie is to be charge for blasphemy than this guy should be charge for slandering the Al Quran. He admire the Arabs so much so I suppose he should be sent to the desert and be stoned at or have his toungue cut off.
    WTF is he trying to say like “thinghing” “rubbing a little girl on his thigh and if it pregnate than he shall be responsible for it”. Like someone say “How pitiful his wife and daughters are if they were to know about it”.
    He is always evasive and full of denial when confronted.
    I asked a question “did you know something missing” and it went unreplied. He is everywhere rebutting other comments and also clearly demonstrated that his IQ is not even close to anyone mature enough and befitting to be in these blogs.
    HE IS ALWAYS TALKING NONSENSE. Except with his buddies they were complimenting one another.
    Want to know the answer to that question? tell you this the answer is that your name is not even worth mentioning.
    people calling themselves, GURU, SUPER GURU, INDONESIA’S FINEST SON, what is all these craps. THIS BLOG IS TO EXPRESS HOW MUCH YOU CONCERNS ARE AND NOT BIAS ON ONE AND PREJUDICIAL ON ANOTHER.
    This is the reason why I prefer to stay away from these blogs.
    The moderator himself also at times display discrimination, ambiquity and condon stupid AH to make such defamative remarks knwoing they are Muslim alike. THE ONLY ONE PERSON I ADMIRE IN THESE BLOGS IS MOHAMMED KAFI.
    He had displayed and demonstrated such finesse in his comments. Right to the point and not offending. Dares to challenge and answer any question set upon him. Not ambiquous but with sense.
    Whether he is Islam Muslim or Chinese Christian it doesn’t matter.
    SYONAN said he had surrender his red passport for an Indonesian passport shows him a person with a mentality no better than a pri.
    And by him saying there is no discrimination in Indonesia makes him so small that you could easily size him up with the circle of people he mix with.
    SYONAN also said that “At least you owned up”. What? That I am a Singaporean! Yes of course from the very start. You don’t know what you see or understand what the situation is.
    I once said when Sputjam replied. That the government should do away with all those taxes. Indonesian government is revamping at least 4000 items to go off the dutiable list. I also said that for the rupiahs to reach 7,500 is a dream. How much is it now? Close to 10,000.
    If the SBY government is able to see the economic structure as a whole then he will know what is hapenning in Indonesia.
    Good people in the cabinet were replaced with idiots.Kwik Kian Gie and Yusril Mahendra were good for nothing talkative bullsh*t.
    Let me say this to you, I knew Laksamana during his day in BCA but he was impeached. I was in touch with Gus Dur long before he became President.
    How BauKau project was up for grabs.
    So when you want to impart certain comments to the general public make sure you know what you are talking and not just write a sentence and be top of the chart.

18. emma Says:
    November 3rd, 2007 at 8:13 am

    I find it ironic that many so called (and claimed to be) unbiased and not racist chinese here in this forum are racists themselves. You guys keep complaining that the pribumis are racist toward you, but look at your own comments, not only being racists but also bigots.
    To Hing, who said that Chinese Malaysians are in much better environment than their Indonesian couterparts and who relate being pribumi (or bumiputera in Malaysian case) with Islam: FYI, a sizable number of pribumis in Indonesia are not muslim. The racists are not necessarily the moslem ones. I remember when the May Riot happened, my family (we’re moslem) stayed awake all days and nights to protect our chinese neighbours. And if you are already put on prejudice that we receive money for that, the answer is no. We’ve never asked and we never received any money from our chinese neighbours for what we did. It was our duty as moslems to protect the innocents.
    But when I got back to my uni about a week later, my classmate, a Christian, proudly claimed that he looted the Chinese shops. I’m really sicked of what he did.

19. Frank Sauer Says:
    November 8th, 2007 at 5:13 pm

    Very interesting article. Just wondering how come I found this while searching for sexy baju? This article doesn’t talk about sexy lingerie or any other topic similar to sexy clothes oso? Hm…
    Oh…found it…someone had sexy baju in the comment thats why!

20. hing Says:
    December 3rd, 2007 at 10:43 am

    Emma, you said it’s muslims’ duty to protect innocents, you’re a great blind liar, do you mind I say so?

    Look big girl, tell me if suicide bombers that murder innocents are they protecting these innocents from going to hell? Aren’t these suicide bombers of Palestine and Middle East muslims?

    So what the heck are you talking about muslims’ duty to protect innocents? Muslims are killing innocents.

    You’re talking about you yourself not demanding money from Indon Chinese, what about the other 99% of your muslim neighbors?

    Think think think think, not thing.

21. Dragonwall Says:
    December 30th, 2007 at 4:59 am

    Emma it is really nice to hear something like this.

    The racists are not necessarily the moslem ones. I remember when the May Riot happened, my family (we’re moslem) stayed awake all days and nights to protect our chinese neighbours. And if you are already put on prejudice that we receive money for that, the answer is no. We’ve never asked and we never received any money from our chinese neighbours for what we did. It was our duty as moslems to protect the innocents.

    I totally agree with this, but don’t you think we are referring to the majority and those that were recruited by people, by TNI. Of course there are good and bad. I have my pri employees to openly told us that they join in the crowd to take things that were scattered by the aftermath.
    But what is right and what is wrong! I suppose we could gauge from the thoughts of these scumbags that were involved and not brought to justice. Even to the extent that some were threatened, Munir assassinated, the girl that work for KOMNAS HAM murdered by a psycho next door who was proclaimed ‘gila’!. Does it all make sense to you!

22. Wandi Says:
    January 24th, 2008 at 11:02 am

    I agreed with Raden and I think Arema is way too naive. I hope his family don’t have to suffer for his mistake in the future. By the way all indonesians here have good arguments but there is 1 problem. They only represent 00000,00000001%. The majority don’t think like the way the do. So it is no use to think the attitude of the indonesians are changed towards the chineses indonesian. I am just glad I live in holland now.

23. Jeffrey Says:
    February 17th, 2008 at 4:07 am

    Indonesian people always see Chinese people as a rich people whose money can be taken easily because their eyes are like chopsticks, I remember when I was 17 , I made a Cittizenship ID Card (KTP), I had to pay more money than PRIBUMI (IT COST 25 RB PRI ONLY 5 RB). At that time I realized that I was been discriminated. Beware of Indonesian people, they are easily to smile but you don’t know exactly in their mind. I have a niece who has been raped by the PRI at 1998. At the end in her life ( after being cured in hospital because she is burnt in her office but survived for a moment) she said when she is raped the raper say ALLAHUAKBAR MAMPUS LU CINA”¦. What the words mean??? Are they fully educated in ISLAM? Does ISLAM teach them how to honour other religions , races? Where is the law? The government said that there is no evidence and prove women’s rape is exist in JAKARTA? How can it be? I think MOSLEM in Indonesia is not fully based in true ISLAM, they are ISLAM because their parents are moslem. Nowadays, many PRI who is searching chinese to be their couples. I don’t know why? Are they really in love with the girl/boy? Or want something from them?Status, Money , their religion change ( PINDAH AGAMA KE ISLAM )?

24. Purba Negoro Says:
    May 3rd, 2008 at 2:07 am

    I think actually a Chinese speaks far more eloquently about his than i:

    I quote in full so as not to be labelled as a selective “cherry-picker”:

    The Chinese themselves are partly to blame for some if not
    most of the resulting conflicts. Chinese merchants have tended
    to act as go betweens, first to the local Sultans or Rulers and
    the people, then the colonial masters and their subjects. This
    has tended to bring out envy and resentment as many Chinese
    businessmen are profit oriented to the point of ruthlessness,
    not to mention their penchant to conserve (hoard) money for a
    rainy day.

    However having said that, nothing can really justify genocide or
    mass killings of a people because of their beliefs or their
    differences.

    I make no excuses for the Overseas Chinese. They, like any
    other culture or peoples, have their strengths as well as their
    faults. The Overseas Chinese survive in often hostile conditions
    because of their differences. They also fail, because of their
    differences.

    Though the centuries, they have been generally distrustful of
    central government. They come from a century long history of
    prosecution, from Chinese authorities who view merchants as
    parasites, local authorities who see them as threats to their
    way of life and from colonial authorities who fear them as rivals
    to power.

    They look to themselves to solve problems, relying on
    relationships within the family, clan or dialect group.

    They tend to be ethno-centric especially in their views of the
    locals as being laid back and not as goal driven as themselves.

    They place a high emphasis of guanxi and relationships in
    business (and hence exclude many non-chinese in their
    dealings leading to resentment).

    They remain in small isolated pockets thoughtout the world
    and therefore become heightenly aware of their “chineseness”,
    becoming even more radical in their efforts to cling to their
    culture (even more so than mainland chinese).

    They come from a tradition of soujourning which still colours
    many attitudes of the Overseas Chinese even to this day
    (which does not sit well with locals who would prefer their
    assimulation into the local communities).

    They think in terms of generations and not in the short-term,
    sacrificing much for their children and future generations
    (usually resulting in a not unexpected view of Chinese being
    calculating and ruthless).

    They remain highly confucian while living predominantly in
    local societies where western/middle-eastern culture/thought
    /religion prevail (North America, South America, Southeast
    Asia, Australiasia, South Africa, Britain)

    Up until the 1950s, they were not encouraged to seek local
    citizenships but were instead viewed with suspicion and
    treated as such (until China dropped it’s claim over the
    overseas Chinese and encouraged them to settle in their
    adopted lands).

    They remain secretive and tight-lipped on their practices
    and way of life, not welcoming scrutiny into their societies
    (making it hard for others to understand them and therefore
    build the necessary bridges between cultures).

    This is all of course very much generalised and does not in
    any way reflect the realities facing every single overseas
    chinese community in the world today. However, these are
    some of the reasons why we as a community, have
    succeeded so spectacularly… and failed so miserably at
    the same time.

    It is my hope that this is the first step towards true
    understanding of ourselves, and of us by others.”

    http://www.chinahistoryforum.com/lofiversion/index.php/t1393.html
    Liang Jieming

    All spelling mistakes, grammatical errors intentionally unchanged.

    Quod erat Demonstrandum. Quod scripsi, scripsi. Factae dixit, dixi.

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