Shinta Nuriyah

Dec 26th, 2006, in IM Posts, by

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46 Comments on “Shinta Nuriyah”

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  1. avatar Tomaculum says:
    January 5th, 2007 at 12:10 am

    Hassan,

    Now, can you determine what is “current value and logic”?

    These are your words, not mine. So please determine it, hmm?

    I rather use the concept of thinking and weighing up.

    When it comes to the words of God and the ways of His religion, off course we should comply to it with thinking, but without complaining. Who are we to complain?

    Who we are? We are God’s creature with brain to think he had given. And in thinking is also complaining. I don’t see something wrong with complaining about those written words.
    For me it doesn’t mean that I don’t respect Him, but there are some statements in His written words, which are for me personally not ok. If you believe it 100%-ly, please do it and live according to them.

    Who are we not to complain? We are not teddy bears or stones which cannot give any statement. Even an ant will try to bite you if you step on it.

    Wouldn’t abandoning His regulations which He had set for us also be an act of insult to God? I’m not saying we shouldn’t use our brain, we should use our brain to comply to His regulations, not use it to change and redefine His words as we see fit.

    Who says here abandoning? Complaining = abandoning? Hassan, please! :)
    I talk about complaining.
    F.e.: according to Sharia (as a part of God’s words) every thief has to get their hand cuted as punishment.
    Would you accept this without complaining? I would.

    we should use our brain to comply to His regulations, not use it to change and redefine His words as we see fit.

    Like I mean, Hassan, like I mean!

  2. avatar Cukurungan says:
    January 5th, 2007 at 4:28 pm

    Tomaculum Says:

    For me it doesn’t mean that I don’t respect Him, but there are some statements in His written words, which are for me personally not ok. If you believe it 100%-ly, please do it and live according to them.

    hem hem. Let me check His Words:
    Babi is haram. Then for me will be ok if there’s additional word “but Babu is halal”.

  3. avatar Mohammed Khafi says:
    January 5th, 2007 at 6:20 pm

    Julita said:

    At the present time, does it has to be a marriage contract?

    No of course not, there is no way that any man alive since the time of the Prophet can meet the Quranic conditions, the conditions stipulated in Al Quran make sure of that.

    Julita also said:

    Perhaps it needs some reviewing, past situation and the present. Yes, for many reasons which those faithfull, dedicated wives and mothers can feel (mind you, this kind of unique feeling cannot be found in men). So it is really amazing to hear women demonstrating pro polygamy.

    The application of a set of laws codified in the middle ages, by a patriachal group with their own objectives in mind, is to my mind simple stupidity, especially when they are so contradictory to the principles of equality, democracy, human rights etc. inherent in Al Quran.

    Please do not judge all us men based on what you see so many doing, some of us are completely devoted to our wives and families and adhore what we see happening around us.

  4. avatar Julita says:
    January 5th, 2007 at 11:30 pm

    Mohammed Khafi Says:

    1. They are so contradictory to the principles of equality, democracy, human rights etc. inherent in Al Quran.

    2. Please do not judge all us men based on what you see so many doing, some of us are completely devoted to our wives and families and adhore what we see happening around us.

    1. I read your other answer in regard to polygami which in the end the Lord say ‘No’ because it is impossible to treat women/wives equally.

    2. Definitely, I marry one myself. A loving devoted husband.

  5. avatar Hassan says:
    January 9th, 2007 at 12:32 pm

    Tomaculum: you said,

    We are God’s creature with brain to think he had given. And in thinking is also complaining. I don’t see something wrong with complaining about those written words.

    I never thought that God actually needed us to revise His words, laws, and regulations. That’s interesting Tom. So, we can ‘edit’ and ‘redefine’ His exact words? Did God ‘hire’ us to be the editor of His words, or did He create us to follow them?

    I think that God give us brain to solve our everyday problems, to understand the universe where we live in. And NOT so we can use it against Him to disobey, or criticize (complain about) His wisdom (in His laws and regulations).

    Who are we not to complain?

    We can complain to each other if other people treated us poorly. But to God? After all that He had given us? Had He mistreated us?

    And we usually complain to other people when they did something wrong. Did you see anything wrong with God’s words and wisdom? If His laws and regulations had things that is not good for us (or flaws) that means the laws and regulations are not perfect. Could the Supreme and Perfect being have made a mistake? If indeed so, then He is not perfect.

    it doesn’t mean that I don’t respect Him, but there are some statements in His written words, which are for me personally not ok.

    If God’s wisdom, laws, and regulations contradicted our logic then which one is the correct one? God’s wisdom or our logic?

    And if we follow God’s regulations, but only the ones which made sense to us, wouldn’t that mean we followed the half but abandoned the other?

    You might not understand it, but Muslims are expected to submit to the will of Allah SWT, entirely.

    Al Quran taught Muslims :

    2:208 “O you who believe! Enter perfectly in Islam (by obeying all the rules and regulations of the Islamic religion) and follow not the footsteps of Shaitan (Satan). Verily! He is to you a plain enemy.”

    40:69 “See you not those who dispute about the Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) of Allah? How are they turning away ”

    22:8 “And among men is he who disputes about Allah, without knowledge or guidance, or a Book giving light (from Allah),”

    42:16 “And those who dispute concerning Allah (His Religion of Islamic Monotheism, with which Muhammad SAW has been sent), after it has been accepted (by the people), of no use is their dispute before their Lord…”

  6. avatar Bin Camel says:
    January 18th, 2007 at 3:50 am

    Shinta, may I have the pleasure to have your lovely daughter to be my third wife?
    I will give you my best camel as dowry in exchange.

  7. avatar Tomaculum says:
    January 18th, 2007 at 4:20 am

    Hassan, I can not citate any book half as good as you. If you believe in your holy book and believe, that the writen words are absolutely the words of your God, then it is your faith.
    I for myself, I read the holy books and criticise the statements which are not suitable to my conscience.
    If you read the Al Qur’an and you agree with all, then it is okay. If a statement or a regulation is not suitable with your conscience, then what will you do? To me is this not a complain against God, but against the interpretators.

    I never thought that God actually needed us to revise His words, laws, and regulations. That’s interesting Tom. So, we can ‘edit’ and ‘redefine’ His exact words?

    Which are His exact words? Aren’t those words edited and revised before finally writen as Al Qur’an? Whose exact words? Allahs? Or of the Christian God? Aren’t they One? Why then we can find different words and regulations from one God? Or are there some Gods? If, then which God is the right one?

    Hassan, btw the first monotheism ever known arise in the era of Echnaton, a Pharaoh of the 18th dynasty (ca. 1350 bc) who forced his citizen to pray just to one God: Aton the Sun God. Before this time the human being knows only polytheism. And what about the Gods of the Hinduism? Are they wrong?

    Could the Supreme and Perfect being have made a mistake? If indeed so, then He is not perfect.

    Who knows?

    You might not understand it, but Muslims are expected to submit to the will of Allah SWT, entirely.

    How? Which “will”?

  8. avatar Ismail says:
    January 18th, 2007 at 4:56 am

    The Christian God is real and the islamic god is a counterfiet God and its prophet a counterfiet prophet, that means they are different. It must be, because they are different on all counts, hey guys my personal view.

    I will give you two of those differences.

    The Christian God says you must (under no circumstance must you marry more) have one wife, islam’s god says if you can love them equally then its ok to marry up to 4 wives. Islam’s prophet now went on to marry more than 10, and gave a very silly reason for it.

    The Christian God says there is no marriage in heaven, the Muslim god say there is marriage in the Muslim heaven and valient Muslim men only will even have virgins.

    So you can see that it impossble for them to be the same God and constantly demand different things. One has to be fake and I am sure it’s not the God of the bible.

  9. avatar Mohammed Khafi says:
    January 18th, 2007 at 9:13 am

    Ismail,

    The gospel allows no rule against the following, in and of themselves: masturbation, nonvaginal heterosexual intercourse, bestiality, polygamy, homosexual acts, or erotic art and literature. The Christian is free to be repelled by any or all of these and may continue to practice her or his own purity code in relation to them.

    If you have proof otherwise please show it?

    As to no marriage in heaven in the bible, well as far as I can see that is your loss, I feel that my bond to my wife whom I consider to be my soulmate will last for all time God willing.

    As for the virgins waiting in heaven for the Muslims, where is your proof of this? Al Quran mentions pure companions, I guess it must be your mind which changes this to virgins for sexual use. Purity and life are not just about sex you know.

    Don’t bother quoting Hadith to me for your defense of these statements, If you were not clever enough to understand that Hadith were manmade fabrications when you were a Muslim, then I do not expect that God will have made you any more able to reason now.

    Peace

  10. avatar sgn says:
    January 18th, 2007 at 9:13 am

    Dear All,

    I thought we had enough discussion on this topic.
    Shall we move on to the next topic?

    Cheers,
    sgn

  11. avatar Grace and Mercy says:
    January 18th, 2007 at 10:06 am

    Hi Ismail,

    I thank God that you received a personal revelation through the testimony of your friend and that you found the way, truth and light through Jesus, and accepted him as Lord and Savior like you said in your other post.

    But I think saying things like:

    The Christian God is real and the islamic god is a counterfiet God and its prophet a counterfiet prophet, that means they are different.

    is counter-productive.

    Remember that we could be the only person whom Jesus would be heard from, and if people ended up rejecting Jesus because of us then we would be held accountable. We are his ambassadors here on earth, so when speaking on his behalf we should always have these in mind:

    WWJS = What Would Jesus Say?
    WWJD = What Would Jesus Do?

    God bless you in your zeal to spread the good news!

  12. avatar sgn says:
    January 18th, 2007 at 10:18 am

    Hi “Grace and Mercy”, well said.

  13. avatar Grace and Mercy says:
    January 18th, 2007 at 11:25 am

    Hi brother M. Khafi, actually there is a long list of what is not to be done regarding sexual activity listed in the bible. It’s found in Leviticus 18. It’s too long here, so I won’t copy paste the whole thing, but if you are interested you can go to the link i provided –> http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=lev%2018;&version=31;

    When Jesus came he took it to another level which was higher and can only be done by the ability given to the heart. He said in Matthew 5:27-30:

    “You have heard that it was said, ‘Do not commit adultery. ‘But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.”

    He goes on to say in Matthew 15:19-20

    For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. These are what make a man ‘unclean’; but eating with unwashed hands does not make him ‘unclean.’

    Now about marriage in heaven Jesus explains it by saying “As with the angels, all our ecstasies and intimacies then will be with God.” You can find this in context in Matthew 22:23-33 and I’m giving you the link because this post is going to be too long.

    http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2022:22-33;&version=65;

  14. avatar Mohammed Khafi says:
    January 18th, 2007 at 12:13 pm

    Thank you Grace and Mercy,

    Your tolerance and love shine out from you explanations.

    You will find however that Ismail, is not as tolerant and loving as yourself, he even rejects the Old Testament teachings.

    I have no desire to upset sgn, so will leave it at that for now, I am sure that an opportunity will show itself again for us to discuss further, thanks again for your explanations and the links, which I will take a look at later.

    Peace to you Grace and Mercy

  15. avatar Tomaculum says:
    January 18th, 2007 at 12:55 pm

    Guys, guys,
    don’t call Ismail names! He is just one of those who has received the enlightenment!
    We should all envy and emulate him!
    :)

  16. avatar sgn says:
    January 18th, 2007 at 11:03 pm

    Grace and Mercy Says:

    January 18th, 2007 at 10:06 am

    Hi Ismail,

    I thank God that you received a personal revelation through the testimony of your friend and that you found the way, truth and light through Jesus, and accepted him as Lord and Savior like you said in your other post.

    Mohammed Khafi Says:

    January 18th, 2007 at 12:13 pm

    Thank you Grace and Mercy,

    Your tolerance and love shine out from you explanations.

    You will find however that Ismail, is not as tolerant and loving as yourself, he even rejects the Old Testament teachings.

    Does Ismail reject the Old Testament? Sorry, I don’t believe that.
    I think Ismail was just too excited on sharing his faith as what I had done earlier.

    God bless you, Ismail.

    /sgn

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