Shinta Nuriyah
December 26th, 2006, in News, by PatungShinta Nuriyah Wahid says Islam teaches monogamy.
Shinta Nuriyah, the wife of former president Abdurrahman Wahid, says that since the time of Muhammad Islam has always taught that monogamy is ideal.
In the Quran it is said that man cannot be fair, so it’s clear that the verses in question show that Islam teaches monogamy not polygamy.
(Dalam Al-Quran disebutkan manusia tidak akan mungkin bisa berbuat adil, jadi jelas melalui ayat-ayat tersebut menunjukkan bahwa Islam itu mengajarkan monogami bukan poligami.)
She also told the tale of the Fourth Caliph Ali bin Abi Talib, Muhammad’s son-in-law, who was supposed to have asked his father-in-law for permission to take another wife. Muhammad however said no, three times and in public. If Muhammad said it in public then it was something that had become a general rule, she said.
Shinta Nuriyah
A lot hinged on the meaning of the word “fair”, she said. In the Quran there were two words for it, qasata and adala. The former referred to material matters and the latter to immaterial matters such as love, affection, etc. Adala was the word used in the verses on polygamy, she claimed, saying that being fair in matters of the heart was impossible, and the Quran said as much.
Shinta also said that polygamy just created problems such as domestic violence, and unhappiness generally, and she hoped that society would become united in eradicating it. [1]
Tags: Religion
46 Comments on “Shinta Nuriyah”
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Julita Says:
December 26th, 2006 at 2:00 amThanks Shinta for people like you. Who has a believe of what is right and speak it out, even when you know there might be contradiction. Yes, may you all unite create a better society without exception of position or wealth.
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Madesh Says:
December 26th, 2006 at 6:22 amShinta you are a genuine Moslem and you are proficient in Islamic teaching.
Are their Qur’an different from the one owned by Shinta Nuriyah?
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Nunuque Says:
December 26th, 2006 at 7:36 amI’m confused now. So, Muhammad said that monogamy is not allowed because it is impossible to be fair, but Muhammad himself also did poligamy.
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bradlymail Says:
December 26th, 2006 at 8:22 amShinta Nuriyah Wahid says Islam teaches monogamy
Thanks Shinta for your brave and strong statement. I think Mohammed Khafi already explained about this.
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Cukurungan Says:
December 26th, 2006 at 2:43 pmShe also told the tale of the Fourth Caliph Ali bin Abi Talib, Muhammad’s son-in-law, who was supposed to have asked his father-in-law for permission to take another wife. Muhammad however said no, three times and in public. If Muhammad said it in public then it was something that had become a general rule, she said.
This is a corrupted tale because this lady didn’t quote what the reason behind prophet objections about the second marriage plan of His son in law. The prophet said that he didn’t forbid the something God already permitted (polygami) but he didn’t want his beloved daughter in one house with daughter the enemy of God (Abu Jahal). It is clear that’s anti polygami argument was using un-complete tale or corrupted hadist.
Would you please ask her which Qur’an version to justify her husband conduct with few ladies sometimes a go.
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1ndra Says:
December 26th, 2006 at 2:59 pmUnless we have a war, maybe?
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Mohammed Khafi Says:
December 26th, 2006 at 9:43 pm1ndra,
Don’t forget that polygamy is also conditional on the inability to be fair to the orphans of that war! Al Quran is quite clear on this.
Marriage in the time of The Prophet was not just as we know it now, it was a social contract to provide care and protection, not just for reproduction and certainly not just for sex.
The Prophet was a fine example of this. His first marriage, at the age of 25, to Khadija, aged 40, was his only marriage until her death some 25 years later, if he had wanted to take a second wife for sexual purposes he could have done so at any time during that 25 years, He would have had his pick of the most beautiful young women in Arabia, if he had so wished.
It was only after the death of Khadija when he was in his 50’s that he took other wives, these were troubled times and many widows and orphans were in need of support and protection. Some of these “wives” were already in their old age, and only lived for a few years after the marriages, reinforcing the fact that it was not sex that drove The Prophet to marry them. It is without doubt that some of the marriages in his later life were for reasons of political stability and for uniting the various tribes of the area, which was the reason that Allah gave special permission for The Prophet to marry more than 4 wives, this was for the stability and strength of the Ummah.
If only our present day polygamists had such noble intentions!
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December 27th, 2006 at 10:07 amIn Rasulullah days, poligamy other than protecting the orphans of war is being used for peaceful act, as you know there’re wars and hates and by marriage the wars and hates are diminished, who dare to attack their new family, they even know better about Islam in that peaceful life.
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Bas Says:
December 28th, 2006 at 1:46 am“He would have had his pick of the most beautiful young women in Arabia, if he had so wished.”
You must be god to know that? Or may be you were already born on these dark times and lived with him? All you say is nothing but assumptions. At aleast 99% of actual and past polygamists are and were just doing so for sexual purpose. Well why not? As long as you live in a pratiarcal country that should not be a big issue.
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December 28th, 2006 at 12:31 pmAide de camp said:
You must be god to know that? Or may be you were already born on these dark times and lived with him? All you say is nothing but assumptions. At aleast 99% of actual and past polygamists are and were just doing so for sexual purpose. Well why not? As long as you live in a pratiarcal country that should not be a big issue.
Why would I need to be God to make such a statement, The Prophet was kind and compassionate even against his enemies, he was not a poor man, he was powerfull, he wielded great influence, both in religious matters and worldly matters, why would he not have had many possible suitors from amongst the young beautiful women of Arabia, This has nothing to do with being God, it is a matter of commonsense. Women search for a mate for many reasons, many of those listed above in actual fact. Just look at our own country, do you see any powerfull men who have to try hard to find young attractive female companions?
I partly agree with you on your last statement that a large percentage of polygamous marriages were for mens lust, but then they are not following Gods rules are they? Not a big big issue?, well maybe it isn’t for somepeople with twisted morals but maybe you had better ask the first wives how they feel?
As to living in a patriarchal country, if we are following Gods commands, men and women are equals, there should be no bias towards either sex in any matter
Gods natural law is shown in the balance of males to females, from the ages of 16 to 65 there is a natural ratio of 1 to 1. If you can’t see the natural balance in that then I feel sorry for you.
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sgn Says:
December 30th, 2006 at 7:45 pmMohammed Khafi Says:
December 28th, 2006 at 12:31 pmGods natural law is shown in the balance of males to females, from the ages of 16 to 65 there is a natural ratio of 1 to 1.
But, it does not mean every man and woman must marry. Marriage is not mandatory.
sgn
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December 30th, 2006 at 10:21 pmsgn said:
But, it does not mean every man and woman must marry. Marriage is not mandatory.
And the point of your statement is?
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January 1st, 2007 at 10:46 amHi MK,
My point is …..
If marriage is a mandatory, then if one says “up to 4 wives” then I am worried other will say “up to 4 husbands”. Or people will say “Oh no… some have taken more wives/husbands, not enough for us, let marry the same sex”.I agree with you about “natural balance” but that is not the only reason to have only one wife/husband.
sgn
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January 1st, 2007 at 1:24 pmHi sgn,
I wasn’t suggesting that it was a reason, just a sign that the numbers of men and women are matched for marriage!
My feeling is that if you have made a good reasoned choice in a marriage partner, and work to make that marriage a success, why should you need another?
There is nothing more wonderful than a successful relationship between a man and a woman, sharing life’s journey together, making joint decisions, raising children, making love, sharing joy and laughter, and supporting each other during times of sadness and sorrow.
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January 2nd, 2007 at 4:54 amIs marrying the only way one person can help another?
A 60 year old man/woman helping a 20 year old boy/girl? Oh, my difficult to digest.
There is a more honourable way, no? The Lord God, Allah did not make several Eves for Adam. -
January 2nd, 2007 at 12:49 pmJulita,
Please don’t think that I am in any way condoning Polygamy, I am not, I am totally against the concept. But what you are forgetting is that social welfare as we understand it did not exist in ancient times.
The narrow concept which we have in modern times of the definition of the word marriage is not applicable to those times. We have to read these scriptural accounts of life with a wider understanding of the concept of marriage, that of a social contract between people, it was not always a matter of conjugal rights, it was sometimes done to protect and provide for, the protection of the social contract of marriage afforded the widows and orphans the status of the tribe.
The examples given in Al Quran were very specific to the time that they were given, just after the battle of Uhud when there had been terrible losses of the male members of society. The verses in Al Quran are very specific in that the allowance for taking a widowed woman into this type of contract were for protecting her and her orphaned children.
The concept was quite honourable when looked apon from this point of view.
It is just a shame that modern men are using those noble principles for the satisfaction of their lusts.
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Hassan Says:
January 2nd, 2007 at 2:05 pmJulita, don’t use 21st century values and logic to understand about something that had happened some centuries ago.
Anyway, shinta nuriyah and her husband seemed like birds of a feather, they sang the same old songs.
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January 2nd, 2007 at 2:39 pmWell, if God makes several Eves, then Adam would live without rib bones…:D
But, we want to know, is women vs men percentage equal?
If 5 billion people with 2.5 billion men and 2.5 billion women then its equal.
As we know, men rather die often than women, by war, conflict, accident and much else.
If the conditions above apply and for example there’re 2 billion men and 3 billion women, then there’re 1 billion women unmarried…live a life by herself.I’m not supporting poligamy but not insult it, I have no capability to judge God.
For me, it’s hard to share heart with other female when one heart and love is enough. -
January 2nd, 2007 at 3:08 pm1ndra said:
But, we want to know, is women vs men percentage equal?
From: Indexmundi
0-14 years: 28.8% (male 35,995,919/female 34,749,582)
15-64 years: 65.8% (male 80,796,794/female 80,754,238)
65 years and over: 5.4% (male 5,737,473/female 7,418,733) (2006 est.)Sex Ratio’s
at birth: 1.05 male(s)/female
under 15 years: 1.04 male(s)/female
15-64 years: 1 male(s)/female
65 years and over: 0.77 male(s)/female
total population: 1 male(s)/female (2006 est.) -
January 2nd, 2007 at 3:56 pmThank you brother, now we see that only 65 years women that ‘need’ poligamy.
Thankfully Indonesia is not at war, but how about abroad…
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Ihaknt Says:
January 2nd, 2007 at 4:27 pmExcuse me….we DONT need poligamy! that’s what a divorce lawyer is for! Dont get mad, GET EVERYTHING!!! A good housekeeper gets to keep the house!
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January 2nd, 2007 at 11:25 pmIndra, don’t you think you are underestimating God the Almighty? Or are you kidding, that is allright.
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Tomaculum Says:
January 2nd, 2007 at 11:51 pm1ndra, imagine, there are also lesbians. And they don’t need any man.
What do you want to say? If there are more men living in this sh*t intolerant planet than women, then this is one of the justification to do the polygyny?
Are you really bothering the fate of those ladies which don’t have the luck to snatch a man or do you just need an argument for polygyny?Hassan,
Julita, don’t use 21st century values and logic to understand about something that had happened some centuries ago.
We live in the 21st century, Hassan. And we only know the current values and logic, why shouldn’t we use them?
So, we have to accept things invented and written some centuries ago without thinking and complaining? And those regulation have their validity in this current different (to those in which these regulations are made) era? Everybody, who says that, is insulting God. Because God, never mind which name we gave Him, give us brain to think the way we learned and we have learned and learn to think according to the current situation and its problems.
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January 2nd, 2007 at 11:56 pmI do not read the Qur’an and will not make detailed comments about it, mine are just questions since it has become a hot discussion in Indonesia and Malayisa?
Mohammed Khafi says:
The verses in Al Quran are very specific in that the allowance for taking a widowed woman into this type of contract were for protecting her and her orphaned children.The concept was quite honourable when looked apon from this point of view.
At the present time, does it has to be a marriage contract? To me the honour way would be, how about financing the young woman/man for education as a father or uncle would. And let them find partners their age. Right, I am not talking about (old) widows here, it is up to them.
It is just a shame that modern men are using those noble principles for the satisfaction of their lusts.
Perhaps it needs some reviewing, past situation and the present. Yes, for many reasons which those faithfull, dedicated wives and mothers can feel (mind you, this kind of unique feeling cannot be found in men). So it is really amazing to hear women demonstrating pro polygamy.
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January 3rd, 2007 at 6:32 amHassan said
Anyway, shinta nuriyah and her husband seemed like birds of a feather, they sang the same old songs.
so what? Good on them that they are still with each other. She is a very great lady in terms of staying with him although he has physical disabilities. How many people out there, man or woman, would stay with their disabled partners? not many, cos it’s not easy. They love each other, and it’s sweet as we rarely see that these days.
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January 3rd, 2007 at 10:33 amJulita:
Indra, don’t you think you are underestimating God the Almighty? Or are you kidding, that is allright.
It’s just kidding, see my
God is all above us, there’s no way to underestimating God.
Tomaculum:
Are you really bothering the fate of those ladies which don’t have the luck to snatch a man or do you just need an argument for polygyny?
Please know that I don’t support poligamy and not insult it either. But in some case, yes, it’s poor for them in their old days they are alone.
I hope in the future, there’re better one to one relationship.
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January 3rd, 2007 at 1:05 pmIhaknt Says:
She is a very great lady in terms of staying with him although he has physical disabilities.
I just would like to inform you that she also has physical disabilities caused by car iccident very longtime ago, anyway, she is stilll considered “great lady” because she sang your favorite songs. hi hi hi
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January 3rd, 2007 at 11:42 pmGreat Indra, that’s what I thought. Perhaps (just kidding) would have cleared it up immediately. It is good to laugh.
Perhaps you have heard this. One day there was a dialog, “Why God did not make wives according to their husbands’ wishes”. The answer was:” Because Adam was in a deep sleep when God made Eve.” -
January 4th, 2007 at 10:13 amTomaculum: I copy pasted some of my statement on the other thread and added some others to answer your questions here.
“We live in the 21st century, Hassan. And we only know the current values and logic, why shouldn’t we use them?”
Now, can you determine what is “current value and logic”?
“Current values and logic” is a relative term, it is different in iran, the united states and in the amazons, for example. And we are talking about the same era here. It is relative depending on geography the the people themselves.
No one can dominate what “current values and logic” meant, and force it on other people and other cultures.Values and logics evolves all the time, what we deemed ‘correct’ in our time will not necessarily be ‘correct’ 50 years from now. Judging the wisdom and values of days gone by with our “current values and logic” (a relative term in itself) is then sometimes unwise and arrogant.
I know we are living in this current era with it’s current western and non western values and logic. But some people (including Muslims) have their own values and logic. Theirs might come from some scriptures several centuries ago, but can we say it is “wrong” and the modern one is “correct”? If the two contradicts, can we say the newest one must be the best for them?
So, we have to accept things invented and written some centuries ago without thinking and complaining?
When it comes to the words of God and the ways of His religion, off course we should comply to it with thinking, but without complaining. Who are we to complain?
I think it is the people who should comply to God’s ever-lasting regulations, not God’s regulations which should comply and changed to suit the change of lifestyle of the people (who didn’t follow God’s regulations and the lifestyle he wanted us to live by on the first place).And those regulation have their validity in this current different (to those in which these regulations are made) era?
Those regulations were made by the All Knowing and All Wise God, His knowledge spans time and space. If we questions the validity of His regulations, wouldn’t we be also questioning His wisdom and knowledge in creating such regulations? God, of all Being, must know about the concept of time and the changes of human cultures. When He created regulations for His creations it would be valid until the end of time.
Why would He bother creating regulations and religions on the first place if He knew those things would be invalid in the future?Everybody, who says that, is insulting God.
Wouldn’t abandoning His regulations which He had set for us also be an act of insult to God? I’m not saying we shouldn’t use our brain, we should use our brain to comply to His regulations, not use it to change and redefine His words as we see fit.
If humans are belligerent and lived in ways that is against God’s regulations, and a shift in human cultures and values happened, should God regulations be changed every time such shifts occurs?
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January 4th, 2007 at 11:23 pmHassan:
That is what I meant, the all knowing, almighty God does not change with time. It is people changing it to their own preference. -
January 5th, 2007 at 12:10 amHassan,
Now, can you determine what is “current value and logic”?
These are your words, not mine. So please determine it, hmm?
I rather use the concept of thinking and weighing up.
When it comes to the words of God and the ways of His religion, off course we should comply to it with thinking, but without complaining. Who are we to complain?
Who we are? We are God’s creature with brain to think he had given. And in thinking is also complaining. I don’t see something wrong with complaining about those written words.
For me it doesn’t mean that I don’t respect Him, but there are some statements in His written words, which are for me personally not ok. If you believe it 100%-ly, please do it and live according to them.Who are we not to complain? We are not teddy bears or stones which cannot give any statement. Even an ant will try to bite you if you step on it.
Wouldn’t abandoning His regulations which He had set for us also be an act of insult to God? I’m not saying we shouldn’t use our brain, we should use our brain to comply to His regulations, not use it to change and redefine His words as we see fit.
Who says here abandoning? Complaining = abandoning? Hassan, please!
I talk about complaining.
F.e.: according to Sharia (as a part of God’s words) every thief has to get their hand cuted as punishment.
Would you accept this without complaining? I would.we should use our brain to comply to His regulations, not use it to change and redefine His words as we see fit.
Like I mean, Hassan, like I mean!
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January 5th, 2007 at 4:28 pmTomaculum Says:
For me it doesn’t mean that I don’t respect Him, but there are some statements in His written words, which are for me personally not ok. If you believe it 100%-ly, please do it and live according to them.
hem hem. Let me check His Words:
Babi is haram. Then for me will be ok if there’s additional word “but Babu is halal”. -
January 5th, 2007 at 6:20 pmJulita said:
At the present time, does it has to be a marriage contract?
No of course not, there is no way that any man alive since the time of the Prophet can meet the Quranic conditions, the conditions stipulated in Al Quran make sure of that.
Julita also said:
Perhaps it needs some reviewing, past situation and the present. Yes, for many reasons which those faithfull, dedicated wives and mothers can feel (mind you, this kind of unique feeling cannot be found in men). So it is really amazing to hear women demonstrating pro polygamy.
The application of a set of laws codified in the middle ages, by a patriachal group with their own objectives in mind, is to my mind simple stupidity, especially when they are so contradictory to the principles of equality, democracy, human rights etc. inherent in Al Quran.
Please do not judge all us men based on what you see so many doing, some of us are completely devoted to our wives and families and adhore what we see happening around us.
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January 5th, 2007 at 11:30 pmMohammed Khafi Says:
1. They are so contradictory to the principles of equality, democracy, human rights etc. inherent in Al Quran.
2. Please do not judge all us men based on what you see so many doing, some of us are completely devoted to our wives and families and adhore what we see happening around us.
1. I read your other answer in regard to polygami which in the end the Lord say ‘No’ because it is impossible to treat women/wives equally.
2. Definitely, I marry one myself. A loving devoted husband.
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January 9th, 2007 at 12:32 pmTomaculum: you said,
We are God’s creature with brain to think he had given. And in thinking is also complaining. I don’t see something wrong with complaining about those written words.
I never thought that God actually needed us to revise His words, laws, and regulations. That’s interesting Tom. So, we can ‘edit’ and ‘redefine’ His exact words? Did God ‘hire’ us to be the editor of His words, or did He create us to follow them?
I think that God give us brain to solve our everyday problems, to understand the universe where we live in. And NOT so we can use it against Him to disobey, or criticize (complain about) His wisdom (in His laws and regulations).
Who are we not to complain?
We can complain to each other if other people treated us poorly. But to God? After all that He had given us? Had He mistreated us?
And we usually complain to other people when they did something wrong. Did you see anything wrong with God’s words and wisdom? If His laws and regulations had things that is not good for us (or flaws) that means the laws and regulations are not perfect. Could the Supreme and Perfect being have made a mistake? If indeed so, then He is not perfect.
it doesn’t mean that I don’t respect Him, but there are some statements in His written words, which are for me personally not ok.
If God’s wisdom, laws, and regulations contradicted our logic then which one is the correct one? God’s wisdom or our logic?
And if we follow God’s regulations, but only the ones which made sense to us, wouldn’t that mean we followed the half but abandoned the other?
You might not understand it, but Muslims are expected to submit to the will of Allah SWT, entirely.
Al Quran taught Muslims :
2:208 “O you who believe! Enter perfectly in Islam (by obeying all the rules and regulations of the Islamic religion) and follow not the footsteps of Shaitan (Satan). Verily! He is to you a plain enemy.”
40:69 “See you not those who dispute about the Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) of Allah? How are they turning away ”
22:8 “And among men is he who disputes about Allah, without knowledge or guidance, or a Book giving light (from Allah),”
42:16 “And those who dispute concerning Allah (His Religion of Islamic Monotheism, with which Muhammad SAW has been sent), after it has been accepted (by the people), of no use is their dispute before their Lord…”
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Bin Camel Says:
January 18th, 2007 at 3:50 amShinta, may I have the pleasure to have your lovely daughter to be my third wife?
I will give you my best camel as dowry in exchange. -
January 18th, 2007 at 4:20 amHassan, I can not citate any book half as good as you. If you believe in your holy book and believe, that the writen words are absolutely the words of your God, then it is your faith.
I for myself, I read the holy books and criticise the statements which are not suitable to my conscience.
If you read the Al Qur’an and you agree with all, then it is okay. If a statement or a regulation is not suitable with your conscience, then what will you do? To me is this not a complain against God, but against the interpretators.I never thought that God actually needed us to revise His words, laws, and regulations. That’s interesting Tom. So, we can ‘edit’ and ‘redefine’ His exact words?
Which are His exact words? Aren’t those words edited and revised before finally writen as Al Qur’an? Whose exact words? Allahs? Or of the Christian God? Aren’t they One? Why then we can find different words and regulations from one God? Or are there some Gods? If, then which God is the right one?
Hassan, btw the first monotheism ever known arise in the era of Echnaton, a Pharaoh of the 18th dynasty (ca. 1350 bc) who forced his citizen to pray just to one God: Aton the Sun God. Before this time the human being knows only polytheism. And what about the Gods of the Hinduism? Are they wrong?
Could the Supreme and Perfect being have made a mistake? If indeed so, then He is not perfect.
Who knows?
You might not understand it, but Muslims are expected to submit to the will of Allah SWT, entirely.
How? Which “will”?
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Ismail Says:
January 18th, 2007 at 4:56 amThe Christian God is real and the islamic god is a counterfiet God and its prophet a counterfiet prophet, that means they are different. It must be, because they are different on all counts, hey guys my personal view.
I will give you two of those differences.
The Christian God says you must (under no circumstance must you marry more) have one wife, islam’s god says if you can love them equally then its ok to marry up to 4 wives. Islam’s prophet now went on to marry more than 10, and gave a very silly reason for it.
The Christian God says there is no marriage in heaven, the Muslim god say there is marriage in the Muslim heaven and valient Muslim men only will even have virgins.
So you can see that it impossble for them to be the same God and constantly demand different things. One has to be fake and I am sure it’s not the God of the bible.
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January 18th, 2007 at 9:13 amIsmail,
The gospel allows no rule against the following, in and of themselves: masturbation, nonvaginal heterosexual intercourse, bestiality, polygamy, homosexual acts, or erotic art and literature. The Christian is free to be repelled by any or all of these and may continue to practice her or his own purity code in relation to them.
If you have proof otherwise please show it?
As to no marriage in heaven in the bible, well as far as I can see that is your loss, I feel that my bond to my wife whom I consider to be my soulmate will last for all time God willing.
As for the virgins waiting in heaven for the Muslims, where is your proof of this? Al Quran mentions pure companions, I guess it must be your mind which changes this to virgins for sexual use. Purity and life are not just about sex you know.
Don’t bother quoting Hadith to me for your defense of these statements, If you were not clever enough to understand that Hadith were manmade fabrications when you were a Muslim, then I do not expect that God will have made you any more able to reason now.
Peace
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January 18th, 2007 at 9:13 amDear All,
I thought we had enough discussion on this topic.
Shall we move on to the next topic?Cheers,
sgn -
Grace and Mercy Says:
January 18th, 2007 at 10:06 amHi Ismail,
I thank God that you received a personal revelation through the testimony of your friend and that you found the way, truth and light through Jesus, and accepted him as Lord and Savior like you said in your other post.
But I think saying things like:
The Christian God is real and the islamic god is a counterfiet God and its prophet a counterfiet prophet, that means they are different.
is counter-productive.
Remember that we could be the only person whom Jesus would be heard from, and if people ended up rejecting Jesus because of us then we would be held accountable. We are his ambassadors here on earth, so when speaking on his behalf we should always have these in mind:
WWJS = What Would Jesus Say?
WWJD = What Would Jesus Do?God bless you in your zeal to spread the good news!
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January 18th, 2007 at 10:18 amHi “Grace and Mercy”, well said.
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January 18th, 2007 at 11:25 amHi brother M. Khafi, actually there is a long list of what is not to be done regarding sexual activity listed in the bible. It’s found in Leviticus 18. It’s too long here, so I won’t copy paste the whole thing, but if you are interested you can go to the link i provided –> http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=lev%2018;&version=31;
When Jesus came he took it to another level which was higher and can only be done by the ability given to the heart. He said in Matthew 5:27-30:
“You have heard that it was said, ‘Do not commit adultery. ‘But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.”
He goes on to say in Matthew 15:19-20
For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. These are what make a man ‘unclean’; but eating with unwashed hands does not make him ‘unclean.’
Now about marriage in heaven Jesus explains it by saying “As with the angels, all our ecstasies and intimacies then will be with God.” You can find this in context in Matthew 22:23-33 and I’m giving you the link because this post is going to be too long.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2022:22-33;&version=65;
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January 18th, 2007 at 12:13 pmThank you Grace and Mercy,
Your tolerance and love shine out from you explanations.
You will find however that Ismail, is not as tolerant and loving as yourself, he even rejects the Old Testament teachings.
I have no desire to upset sgn, so will leave it at that for now, I am sure that an opportunity will show itself again for us to discuss further, thanks again for your explanations and the links, which I will take a look at later.
Peace to you Grace and Mercy
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January 18th, 2007 at 12:55 pmGuys, guys,
don’t call Ismail names! He is just one of those who has received the enlightenment!
We should all envy and emulate him!
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January 18th, 2007 at 11:03 pmGrace and Mercy Says:
January 18th, 2007 at 10:06 am
Hi Ismail,
I thank God that you received a personal revelation through the testimony of your friend and that you found the way, truth and light through Jesus, and accepted him as Lord and Savior like you said in your other post.
Mohammed Khafi Says:
January 18th, 2007 at 12:13 pm
Thank you Grace and Mercy,
Your tolerance and love shine out from you explanations.
You will find however that Ismail, is not as tolerant and loving as yourself, he even rejects the Old Testament teachings.
Does Ismail reject the Old Testament? Sorry, I don’t believe that.
I think Ismail was just too excited on sharing his faith as what I had done earlier.God bless you, Ismail.
/sgn
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