Shinta Nuriyah

Dec 26th, 2006, in IM Posts, by

Shinta Nuriyah Wahid says Islam teaches monogamy.

Shinta Nuriyah, the wife of former president Abdurrahman Wahid, says that since the time of Muhammad Islam has always taught that monogamy is ideal.

In the Quran it is said that man cannot be fair, so it's clear that the verses in question show that Islam teaches monogamy not polygamy.
(Dalam Al-Quran disebutkan manusia tidak akan mungkin bisa berbuat adil, jadi jelas melalui ayat-ayat tersebut menunjukkan bahwa Islam itu mengajarkan monogami bukan poligami.)

She also told the tale of the Fourth Caliph Ali bin Abi Talib, Muhammad's son-in-law, who was supposed to have asked his father-in-law for permission to take another wife. Muhammad however said no, three times and in public. If Muhammad said it in public then it was something that had become a general rule, she said.

Shinta Nuriyah
Shinta Nuriyah

A lot hinged on the meaning of the word "fair", she said. In the Quran there were two words for it, qasata and adala. The former referred to material matters and the latter to immaterial matters such as love, affection, etc. Adala was the word used in the verses on polygamy, she claimed, saying that being fair in matters of the heart was impossible, and the Quran said as much.

Shinta also said that polygamy just created problems such as domestic violence, and unhappiness generally, and she hoped that society would become united in eradicating it. antara


46 Comments on “Shinta Nuriyah”

  1. avatar Julita says:

    Thanks Shinta for people like you. Who has a believe of what is right and speak it out, even when you know there might be contradiction. Yes, may you all unite create a better society without exception of position or wealth.

  2. avatar Madesh says:

    Shinta you are a genuine Moslem and you are proficient in Islamic teaching.

    Are their Qur’an different from the one owned by Shinta Nuriyah?

  3. avatar Nunuque says:

    I’m confused now. So, Muhammad said that monogamy is not allowed because it is impossible to be fair, but Muhammad himself also did poligamy.

  4. avatar bradlymail says:

    Shinta Nuriyah Wahid says Islam teaches monogamy

    Thanks Shinta for your brave and strong statement. I think Mohammed Khafi already explained about this.

  5. avatar Cukurungan says:

    She also told the tale of the Fourth Caliph Ali bin Abi Talib, Muhammad’s son-in-law, who was supposed to have asked his father-in-law for permission to take another wife. Muhammad however said no, three times and in public. If Muhammad said it in public then it was something that had become a general rule, she said.

    This is a corrupted tale because this lady didn’t quote what the reason behind prophet objections about the second marriage plan of His son in law. The prophet said that he didn’t forbid the something God already permitted (polygami) but he didn’t want his beloved daughter in one house with daughter the enemy of God (Abu Jahal). It is clear that’s anti polygami argument was using un-complete tale or corrupted hadist.

    Would you please ask her which Qur’an version to justify her husband conduct with few ladies sometimes a go.

  6. avatar 1ndra says:

    Unless we have a war, maybe?

  7. avatar Mohammed Khafi says:

    1ndra,

    Don’t forget that polygamy is also conditional on the inability to be fair to the orphans of that war! Al Quran is quite clear on this.

    Marriage in the time of The Prophet was not just as we know it now, it was a social contract to provide care and protection, not just for reproduction and certainly not just for sex.

    The Prophet was a fine example of this. His first marriage, at the age of 25, to Khadija, aged 40, was his only marriage until her death some 25 years later, if he had wanted to take a second wife for sexual purposes he could have done so at any time during that 25 years, He would have had his pick of the most beautiful young women in Arabia, if he had so wished.

    It was only after the death of Khadija when he was in his 50’s that he took other wives, these were troubled times and many widows and orphans were in need of support and protection. Some of these “wives” were already in their old age, and only lived for a few years after the marriages, reinforcing the fact that it was not sex that drove The Prophet to marry them. It is without doubt that some of the marriages in his later life were for reasons of political stability and for uniting the various tribes of the area, which was the reason that Allah gave special permission for The Prophet to marry more than 4 wives, this was for the stability and strength of the Ummah.

    If only our present day polygamists had such noble intentions!

  8. avatar 1ndra says:

    In Rasulullah days, poligamy other than protecting the orphans of war is being used for peaceful act, as you know there’re wars and hates and by marriage the wars and hates are diminished, who dare to attack their new family, they even know better about Islam in that peaceful life.

  9. avatar Bas says:

    “He would have had his pick of the most beautiful young women in Arabia, if he had so wished.”

    You must be god to know that? Or may be you were already born on these dark times and lived with him? All you say is nothing but assumptions. At aleast 99% of actual and past polygamists are and were just doing so for sexual purpose. Well why not? As long as you live in a pratiarcal country that should not be a big issue.

  10. avatar Mohammed Khafi says:

    Aide de camp said:

    You must be god to know that? Or may be you were already born on these dark times and lived with him? All you say is nothing but assumptions. At aleast 99% of actual and past polygamists are and were just doing so for sexual purpose. Well why not? As long as you live in a pratiarcal country that should not be a big issue.

    Why would I need to be God to make such a statement, The Prophet was kind and compassionate even against his enemies, he was not a poor man, he was powerfull, he wielded great influence, both in religious matters and worldly matters, why would he not have had many possible suitors from amongst the young beautiful women of Arabia, This has nothing to do with being God, it is a matter of commonsense. Women search for a mate for many reasons, many of those listed above in actual fact. Just look at our own country, do you see any powerfull men who have to try hard to find young attractive female companions?

    I partly agree with you on your last statement that a large percentage of polygamous marriages were for mens lust, but then they are not following Gods rules are they? Not a big big issue?, well maybe it isn’t for somepeople with twisted morals but maybe you had better ask the first wives how they feel?

    As to living in a patriarchal country, if we are following Gods commands, men and women are equals, there should be no bias towards either sex in any matter

    Gods natural law is shown in the balance of males to females, from the ages of 16 to 65 there is a natural ratio of 1 to 1. If you can’t see the natural balance in that then I feel sorry for you.

  11. avatar sgn says:

    Mohammed Khafi Says:
    December 28th, 2006 at 12:31 pm

    Gods natural law is shown in the balance of males to females, from the ages of 16 to 65 there is a natural ratio of 1 to 1.

    But, it does not mean every man and woman must marry. Marriage is not mandatory.

    sgn

  12. avatar Mohammed Khafi says:

    sgn said:

    But, it does not mean every man and woman must marry. Marriage is not mandatory.

    And the point of your statement is?

  13. avatar sgn says:

    Hi MK,
    My point is …..
    If marriage is a mandatory, then if one says “up to 4 wives” then I am worried other will say “up to 4 husbands”. Or people will say “Oh no… some have taken more wives/husbands, not enough for us, let marry the same sex”.

    I agree with you about “natural balance” but that is not the only reason to have only one wife/husband.

    sgn

  14. avatar Mohammed Khafi says:

    Hi sgn,

    I wasn’t suggesting that it was a reason, just a sign that the numbers of men and women are matched for marriage!

    My feeling is that if you have made a good reasoned choice in a marriage partner, and work to make that marriage a success, why should you need another?

    There is nothing more wonderful than a successful relationship between a man and a woman, sharing life’s journey together, making joint decisions, raising children, making love, sharing joy and laughter, and supporting each other during times of sadness and sorrow.

  15. avatar Julita says:

    Is marrying the only way one person can help another?
    A 60 year old man/woman helping a 20 year old boy/girl? Oh, my difficult to digest.
    There is a more honourable way, no? The Lord God, Allah did not make several Eves for Adam.

  16. avatar Mohammed Khafi says:

    Julita,

    Please don’t think that I am in any way condoning Polygamy, I am not, I am totally against the concept. But what you are forgetting is that social welfare as we understand it did not exist in ancient times.

    The narrow concept which we have in modern times of the definition of the word marriage is not applicable to those times. We have to read these scriptural accounts of life with a wider understanding of the concept of marriage, that of a social contract between people, it was not always a matter of conjugal rights, it was sometimes done to protect and provide for, the protection of the social contract of marriage afforded the widows and orphans the status of the tribe.

    The examples given in Al Quran were very specific to the time that they were given, just after the battle of Uhud when there had been terrible losses of the male members of society. The verses in Al Quran are very specific in that the allowance for taking a widowed woman into this type of contract were for protecting her and her orphaned children.

    The concept was quite honourable when looked apon from this point of view.

    It is just a shame that modern men are using those noble principles for the satisfaction of their lusts.

  17. avatar Hassan says:

    Julita, don’t use 21st century values and logic to understand about something that had happened some centuries ago.

    Anyway, shinta nuriyah and her husband seemed like birds of a feather, they sang the same old songs.

  18. avatar 1ndra says:

    Well, if God makes several Eves, then Adam would live without rib bones…:D

    But, we want to know, is women vs men percentage equal?
    If 5 billion people with 2.5 billion men and 2.5 billion women then its equal.
    As we know, men rather die often than women, by war, conflict, accident and much else.
    If the conditions above apply and for example there’re 2 billion men and 3 billion women, then there’re 1 billion women unmarried…live a life by herself.

    I’m not supporting poligamy but not insult it, I have no capability to judge God.
    For me, it’s hard to share heart with other female when one heart and love is enough.

  19. avatar Mohammed Khafi says:

    1ndra said:

    But, we want to know, is women vs men percentage equal?

    From: Indexmundi

    0-14 years: 28.8% (male 35,995,919/female 34,749,582)
    15-64 years: 65.8% (male 80,796,794/female 80,754,238)
    65 years and over: 5.4% (male 5,737,473/female 7,418,733) (2006 est.)

    Sex Ratio’s
    at birth: 1.05 male(s)/female
    under 15 years: 1.04 male(s)/female
    15-64 years: 1 male(s)/female
    65 years and over: 0.77 male(s)/female
    total population: 1 male(s)/female (2006 est.)

  20. avatar 1ndra says:

    Thank you brother, now we see that only 65 years women that ‘need’ poligamy. :D

    Thankfully Indonesia is not at war, but how about abroad…

  21. avatar Ihaknt says:

    Excuse me….we DONT need poligamy! that’s what a divorce lawyer is for! Dont get mad, GET EVERYTHING!!! A good housekeeper gets to keep the house!

  22. avatar Julita says:

    Indra, don’t you think you are underestimating God the Almighty? Or are you kidding, that is allright.

  23. avatar Tomaculum says:

    1ndra, imagine, there are also lesbians. And they don’t need any man.
    What do you want to say? If there are more men living in this sh*t intolerant planet than women, then this is one of the justification to do the polygyny?
    Are you really bothering the fate of those ladies which don’t have the luck to snatch a man or do you just need an argument for polygyny?

    Hassan,

    Julita, don’t use 21st century values and logic to understand about something that had happened some centuries ago.

    We live in the 21st century, Hassan. And we only know the current values and logic, why shouldn’t we use them?

    So, we have to accept things invented and written some centuries ago without thinking and complaining? And those regulation have their validity in this current different (to those in which these regulations are made) era? Everybody, who says that, is insulting God. Because God, never mind which name we gave Him, give us brain to think the way we learned and we have learned and learn to think according to the current situation and its problems.

  24. avatar Julita says:

    I do not read the Qur’an and will not make detailed comments about it, mine are just questions since it has become a hot discussion in Indonesia and Malayisa?

    Mohammed Khafi says:
    The verses in Al Quran are very specific in that the allowance for taking a widowed woman into this type of contract were for protecting her and her orphaned children.

    The concept was quite honourable when looked apon from this point of view.

    At the present time, does it has to be a marriage contract? To me the honour way would be, how about financing the young woman/man for education as a father or uncle would. And let them find partners their age. Right, I am not talking about (old) widows here, it is up to them.

    It is just a shame that modern men are using those noble principles for the satisfaction of their lusts.

    Perhaps it needs some reviewing, past situation and the present. Yes, for many reasons which those faithfull, dedicated wives and mothers can feel (mind you, this kind of unique feeling cannot be found in men). So it is really amazing to hear women demonstrating pro polygamy.

  25. avatar Ihaknt says:

    Hassan said

    Anyway, shinta nuriyah and her husband seemed like birds of a feather, they sang the same old songs.

    so what? Good on them that they are still with each other. She is a very great lady in terms of staying with him although he has physical disabilities. How many people out there, man or woman, would stay with their disabled partners? not many, cos it’s not easy. They love each other, and it’s sweet as we rarely see that these days.

  26. avatar 1ndra says:

    Julita:

    Indra, don’t you think you are underestimating God the Almighty? Or are you kidding, that is allright.

    It’s just kidding, see my :D
    God is all above us, there’s no way to underestimating God. ;)

    Tomaculum:

    Are you really bothering the fate of those ladies which don’t have the luck to snatch a man or do you just need an argument for polygyny?

    Please know that I don’t support poligamy and not insult it either. But in some case, yes, it’s poor for them in their old days they are alone.

    I hope in the future, there’re better one to one relationship.

  27. avatar Cukurungan says:

    Ihaknt Says:

    She is a very great lady in terms of staying with him although he has physical disabilities.

    I just would like to inform you that she also has physical disabilities caused by car iccident very longtime ago, anyway, she is stilll considered “great lady” because she sang your favorite songs. hi hi hi

  28. avatar Julita says:

    Great Indra, that’s what I thought. Perhaps (just kidding) would have cleared it up immediately. It is good to laugh.
    Perhaps you have heard this. One day there was a dialog, “Why God did not make wives according to their husbands’ wishes”. The answer was:” Because Adam was in a deep sleep when God made Eve.”

  29. avatar Hassan says:

    Tomaculum: I copy pasted some of my statement on the other thread and added some others to answer your questions here.

    “We live in the 21st century, Hassan. And we only know the current values and logic, why shouldn’t we use them?”

    Now, can you determine what is “current value and logic”?

    “Current values and logic” is a relative term, it is different in iran, the united states and in the amazons, for example. And we are talking about the same era here. It is relative depending on geography the the people themselves.
    No one can dominate what “current values and logic” meant, and force it on other people and other cultures.

    Values and logics evolves all the time, what we deemed ‘correct’ in our time will not necessarily be ‘correct’ 50 years from now. Judging the wisdom and values of days gone by with our “current values and logic” (a relative term in itself) is then sometimes unwise and arrogant.

    I know we are living in this current era with it’s current western and non western values and logic. But some people (including Muslims) have their own values and logic. Theirs might come from some scriptures several centuries ago, but can we say it is “wrong” and the modern one is “correct”? If the two contradicts, can we say the newest one must be the best for them?

    So, we have to accept things invented and written some centuries ago without thinking and complaining?

    When it comes to the words of God and the ways of His religion, off course we should comply to it with thinking, but without complaining. Who are we to complain?
    I think it is the people who should comply to God’s ever-lasting regulations, not God’s regulations which should comply and changed to suit the change of lifestyle of the people (who didn’t follow God’s regulations and the lifestyle he wanted us to live by on the first place).

    And those regulation have their validity in this current different (to those in which these regulations are made) era?

    Those regulations were made by the All Knowing and All Wise God, His knowledge spans time and space. If we questions the validity of His regulations, wouldn’t we be also questioning His wisdom and knowledge in creating such regulations? God, of all Being, must know about the concept of time and the changes of human cultures. When He created regulations for His creations it would be valid until the end of time.
    Why would He bother creating regulations and religions on the first place if He knew those things would be invalid in the future?

    Everybody, who says that, is insulting God.

    Wouldn’t abandoning His regulations which He had set for us also be an act of insult to God? I’m not saying we shouldn’t use our brain, we should use our brain to comply to His regulations, not use it to change and redefine His words as we see fit.

    If humans are belligerent and lived in ways that is against God’s regulations, and a shift in human cultures and values happened, should God regulations be changed every time such shifts occurs?

  30. avatar Julita says:

    Hassan:
    That is what I meant, the all knowing, almighty God does not change with time. It is people changing it to their own preference.

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